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Yay for the War on Drugs!
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/10374909/detail.html
Elderly Woman Killed; 3 APD Officers Wounded
POSTED: 7:41 pm EST November 21, 2006
UPDATED: 10:41 pm EST November 21, 2006
ATLANTA -- Three Atlanta police officers were shot and wounded and an elderly woman killed at a house in northwest Atlanta Tuesday night.
The woman, who relatives say was 92-years-old, opened fire on the officers from the narcotics division at a house at 933 Neal Street, according to officials. Authorities say they received a tip of drug activity taking place at the home and officers were headed to the house with a search warrant.
Relatives identified the elderly woman as Katherine Johnston.
The woman's niece, Sarah Dozier, says that she bought her aunt a gun to protect herself and that her aunt had a permit for the gun. Relatives believe Johnston was frightened by the officers and opened fire.
"They kicked her door down talking about drugs, there's no drugs in that house. And they realize now, they've got the wrong house," Dozier said. "I'm mad as hell." Officials say they had the correct house and that the warrant they had was legal.
All three of the officers were taken to Grady Memorial Hospital. Officials there say the officers are alive, alert and talking. One officer was struck in the arm, one officer was struck in the shoulder and one officer was struck in the thigh. All of the officers are expected to be okay.
WSB-TV Channel 2 has reporters at the hospital and at the scene of the shooting; they will have live updates on Channel 2 Action News @ 11.
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Based on the "news reports" about this from myfoxatlanta.com, the cops messed up on this, and unfortunately an innocent woman was killed by these bozos.
Another "Glorious Success" in the War on Drugs!
And people some cops wonder why they are so disliked....
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Based on the "news reports" about this from myfoxatlanta.com, the cops messed up on this, and unfortunately an innocent woman was killed by these bozos.
Another "Glorious Success" in the War on Drugs!
And people some cops wonder why they are so disliked....
To paraphrase Rage Against the Machine....
F@#! the Police!
I'm proud of the old bat, she winged three of them. In my opinion, these thugs are no different than any other home invaders. So they had a warrant based on a tip in thier hands? How about attempting to buy and verify? How about some GD survelliance? Bad police work and over zealous jack-booted-thuggery got an old woman killed and three police wounded....
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She got killed over an ANONYMOUS FRAKKING TIP!!!!!!!
I'm sure the officers "followed department procedure" so all is well.
Someone needs to be jailed over this kind of crap!
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92 years old, scared for her life, up against a trained team armed with assault rifles or SMGs, and she still manages three hits on three targets before they take her down.
Well done, ma'am.
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The article has been updated slightly.
Looks like these were plainclothes officers too.
What do we know?
Cops get a tip (we don't know that it was anonymous, Bob) and send officers to serve it, at least some apparently not uniformed.
Officers at some point forcibly open the door.
There is an exchange of fire killing Kathryn Johnson and wounding three of the plainclothes officers.
That's about it.
So far, this doesn't look very good for the police. Ms. Johnson may have been a hardened drug dealer who deserved what she got, but it is possible that instead she was an innocent person - older, so she possibly who didn't see or hear very well - who saw a group of home-invaders forcing their way into her domicile with weapons drawn talking about drugs. Seeing these intruders, she tried to stop them.
Can't say for certain one way or another, but like I said it doesn't look very good.
ATLANTA -- Three Atlanta police officers were shot and wounded and an elderly woman killed at a house in northwest Atlanta Tuesday night.
The woman, identified by relatives as 92-year old Kathryn Johnson, opened fire on the officers from the narcotics division at a house at 933 Neal Street, according to officials. Authorities say they received a tip of drug activity taking place at the home and officers were headed to the house with a search warrant.
The woman's niece, Sarah Dozier, says that she bought her aunt a gun to protect herself and that her aunt had a permit for the gun. Relatives believe Johnston was frightened by the officers and opened fire.
Her relatives say Johnson had lived in the house for about 17 years.
"They kicked her door down talking about drugs, there's no drugs in that house. And they realize now, they've got the wrong house," Dozier said. "I'm mad as hell." Officials say they had the correct house and that the warrant they had was legal.
Assistant Chief Alan Dreher says the officers had a legal warrant and "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door. He said they were justified in returning fire when they were fired upon.
Dozier said there were never any drugs at the house. She says her aunt must have panicked when the police forced their way into the home.
She says the officers "shot her down like a dog."
The plainclothes Atlanta Police officers were transported to Grady Memorial Hospital for treatment. One officer was struck in the arm, one officer was struck in the shoulder and one officer was struck in the thigh. All are expected to recover.
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you know the rest of us are held accountable when we make a major screw up, esspecialy one that gets someone killed.
I think its time we start holding police accountable for their screw ups as well. They got shot at? Boo friggin hoo. Don't bust down the wrong persons door in the first place and they wont assume they are under a home invasion and shoot. I get woken up at two i nthe morning by someone busting my door down are breaking a window and climbing through it I am supposed to take seconds that could cost me my life to decide if it is a police officer or not? BS
She made it to 92, she shouldn't have had to go out this way
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you know the rest of us are held accountable when we make a major screw up, esspecialy one that gets someone killed.
I think its time we start holding police accountable for their screw ups as well. They got shot at? Boo friggin hoo. Don't bust down the wrong persons door in the first place and they wont assume they are under a home invasion and shoot. I get woken up at two i nthe morning by someone busting my door down are breaking a window and climbing through it I am supposed to take seconds that could cost me my life to decide if it is a police officer or not? BS
She made it to 92, she shouldn't have had to go out this way
Another case against no-knock warrants. And now criminals use it to thier advantage, kicking in doors yelling police, tying up the occupants and then robbing them....
Personally, I've got no reason to believe that the police would come into my home....therefore, anyone kicking in my door is viewed as a home invader and is going to recieve incoming rounds.
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yes and now the problem is that A) there is going to be a swat team that will kill you
or B) You are going to jail for killing a police officer is redicules
If you are innocent and have no reason for the police to be breaking in your door you should have much right to defend yourself from a police officer as a common criminal. A badge doesn't give you the right to wrongfully enter my home and put the life of my family and myself in danger.
Actually it does at current, but it shouldn't.
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yes and now the problem is that A) there is going to be a swat team that will kill you
or B) You are going to jail for killing a police officer is redicules
If you are innocent and have no reason for the police to be breaking in your door you should have much right to defend yourself from a police officer as a common criminal. A badge doesn't give you the right to wrongfully enter my home and put the life of my family and myself in danger.
Actually it does at current, but it shouldn't.
True and unfortunate, but I refuse to be a victim because the person yells "police". How do I know they really are police?
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or B) You are going to jail for killing a police officer
There is at least one guy in prison for this right now.
The cops are lucky she used a shotgun. A rifle likely would have punch through their armor.
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You have to admire her pluck, though. She managed to hit 3 people while under stress and who knows what kind of training. It's a shame that she died, but at least she died hard.
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yes there is
Fell asleep and had his baby daughter in the house
Whats the most he had in that story? I think a tiny bit of a joint?
Yeah, great thing to have your life ruined over cause the morons picked the wrong dang house.
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She used a shotgun?
Wow think of that! She is 92 years old, caught off guard by heavly armed and trained men kicking in her door, and she puts three on three with a shotgun!
That's better than I or just about anyone here could hope to do.
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she never should have had too
the officers who entered her home should be stripped of their badges, and put on trial for breaking and entering and at the very least mansluaghter if not murder.
I understand officers need to have powers other citizens don't get, and that sometimes mistakes happen.
But when officers outright break into the wrong house and kill someone they need to be held jsut as accountable as anyone else who breaks into a house and kills someone.
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- Outrage in the news, on the street, and by politicians of every stripe
- City and police officials will be tight-lipped, and say incident is under investigation
- Sharpton or Jackson will show up; a vigil involving weeping and candles ensues
- Family begins civil proceedings
- Eager city official, hoping to further his political career, will tell reporters "the old lady was a hardened criminal" or such
- Eager beaver is fired
- ...
- ...
- ...
- Years later, the city will pay millions of dollars to the family (and tens of millions in legal fees) without ever admitting wrongdoing
Thereby setting up the conditions for it to happen all over again.
Bets anyone?
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Im a bit of a betting man but not bets I know are sure to loose lol
Its going to be hard for them to explain this one away i nthe news. This one is already national. I don't recall the case mentioned before with the man and his baby ever making real national news
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Any word if there will be criminal prosecutions for this alleged debacle?
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... Ms. Johnson may have been a hardened drug dealer who deserved what she got, ...
Deserved death for selling a product?
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So much for Scalia's "professionalism."
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Deserved death for selling a product?
Some would say so.
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On the news a friend of the lady said she thought she used an old rusty pistol.
One guy was hit in the chest, face and leg, another in the leg and another in the arm.
Dang good for anyone under suprise attack, outnumbered and taking fire. Plus 92 years old. That calls for respect.
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Good reason to keep AP's loaded in your rifles
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I have two Mosin-Nagants. Everything is AP
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And people some cops wonder why they are so disliked
Well, I would think they shouldn't have to wonder after this
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On the national TV news, the police said that an undercover drug buy had been made at that house earlier in the afternoon. It was not clear whether the drug buy was made inside the house, or just at the address, but on the lawn or sidewalk.
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On the national TV news, the police said that an undercover drug buy had been made at that house earlier in the afternoon. It was not clear whether the drug buy was made inside the house, or just at the address, but on the lawn or sidewalk.
Interesting point. One that can brought up at the MURDER trial for those yo-yos involved. NOT as an excuse to avoid prosecution!
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I also heard the buy was made from an "unidentified" male who was not at the house at the time of the raid. They refused to say any details about the buy.
They also said they found some unidentified drugs. In the press conference video I saw, they refused to say what the nature of those drugs were. Probably prescription drugs from a 92 year old woman.
Basically, anything they didn't want to answer was "under investigation".
Hopefully, this will lead to some legal changes. I doubt it though.
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Today's Austin, TX newspaper stated that a drug buy had been made earlier at the house from an unidentified male. So far, so good.
But then it stated that plainclothes officers broke the door down, which prompted the shooting. They allegedly had a warrant.
If this was in fact the case, note that officers in plain clothes are, by definition, NOT readily identifiable as police. Persons, not readily identifiable as police, are, IMHO legitimate targets for any homeowner who's experiencing a break in.
Period.
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Hopefully this doesn't take us on too much of a topic drift.
I'm generally not thrilled when I see topics go into "cop bashing". At the same time, I am very much against "no-knock" warrants. I consider myself pretty conservative (actually I usually say I'm a "Republitarian"), and to me, part of that philosophy is the whole "private property rights, 'my home is my castle' " line of reasoning.
So here I am reading this thread, and agreeing with most of the posts regarding this poor woman. Then I go browse here, where I'm a lurker:
http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=112886
A "right wing, conservative" forum. Pretty much every post makes this woman out to be an evil drug dealer, and the one person who indirectly suggests she might have been defending herself in her own home is berated as a left wing liberal. Makes me feel pretty out of touch with conservatives. The direction of that thread is something I'd expect from Statists, not people who are supposed to believe in individual rights and small government.
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Just as "liberal" once meant something else politically in this nation, perhaps we're seeing the end of our definition of "conservative."
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Yep. Can't hardly tell a Liberal from a Conservative any more. The two-party system does not serve us well any more. I don't know what should replace it.
TC
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Yep. Can't hardly tell a Liberal from a Conservative any more. The two-party system does not serve us well any more. I don't know what should replace it.
TC
I do.
http://www.lp.org/
We actually have a multi party system thats been dominated by the two parties, and controlled by them at the higher levels.
PS, my long term ambitions have always been to run for public office.
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What? Are you proposing ONE party rule? Much as I concur with most of the Libertarian Party's platform, I won't go for having them rule alone.
I think this nation (indeed the species as a whole) needs to implement a Bureau of Sabotage before we loose ALL control of our governments.
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I am conservative and I have never heard of that site. There are a lot of people who consider themselves conservative, but are mainly just social conservatives. Smaller govt and individual freedom are afterthoughts.
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To me this case is a classic example of when posters are NOT cop bashing, but seriously questioning the tactics and behavior of the police in question.
- Was the drug buy in front of the house or inside it?
- Who was the unidentified male? Connection to the lady?
- What were the unidentified drugs found? If it was pot or crack, I bet they would have said so.
- Why did plainclothes officers execute the warrant? Why was a no-knock authorized?
- Why didn't they raid the house soon after the buy instead of in the middle of the night? These raids in the wee hours of the morning really bother me.
- Why wasn't some survailence done to the point that they knew whether or not the "unidentified" male was in the house or not?
Maybe I am expecting too much.
For me personally: My main concern is that even if they yelled "POLICE" before breaking down my door, all I am likely hear is the door coming down when I wake up. I doubt I would have any idea who it was coming into my house.
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. . . My main concern is that even if they yelled "POLICE" before breaking down my door, all I am likely hear is the door coming down when I wake up. . . .
Even if you heard someone yelling "POLICE" you have no idea whether or not they really ARE police or not if they're not wearing uniforms. There have been SEVERAL instances of fake police invading homes and robbing/raping the folks inside.
Latest newspaper report says the cops were serving a "no knock" warrant for an unidentified "John Doe" at the address. The little old lady managed to get off six rounds from a revolver before being killed by the intruders. Police claim they found drugs in the house, but haven't decided stated what type or where they were found.
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Police claim they found drugs in the house, but haven't decided stated what type or where they were found.
Which is really odd. Normally, they would be waving that crap all over the place to show that they didn't screw up and were at the right place. Especially if they just killed the homeowner. The fact that they haven't announced anything about what they found tells me that they didn't find much of anything. Probably the same as they found in Cory Maye's house, a half smoked joint.
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Probably the same as they found in Cory Maye's house, a half smoked joint.
No, they found smoking guns in both cases...
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I agree HankB. They were pretty dang evasive on that when asked specifically about the drugs found in that press conference.
All this stuff may have good explanations and this lady was the Godmother of the neighborhood, but the lack of information and the evasivness/vague answers of the PD about key facts just make me naturally suspicious.
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Poor old woman really should've had an AR15.
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A "right wing, conservative" forum. Pretty much every post makes this woman out to be an evil drug dealer, and the one person who indirectly suggests she might have been defending herself in her own home is berated as a left wing liberal. Makes me feel pretty out of touch with conservatives. The direction of that thread is something I'd expect from Statists, not people who are supposed to believe in individual rights and small government.
That's an exageration. I just scanned that thread, and they're having a fairly healthy discussion over there, with more diverse points of view than this one. FWIW, my ill-informed guess is that the cops were at fault here, but I won't make more of a judgement without more facts.
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That's an exageration.
They're having a fairly healthy discussion NOW. When I posted my comment it was much more one-sided.
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When one is fighting for one's own life, you will be amazed at what one is capable of.
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There weren't that many one-sided posts before the discussion opened up. It was an exageration. I have seen one-sided stretches thehighroad.org any number of times.
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Someone please remind me why it is that we're denying living in a Police State?
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There weren't that many one-sided posts before the discussion opened up.
Let's see, 19 posts before I posted here. There were 2 that either favored the woman or felt bad for her, 3 speculative posts, and 10 that sided with the police simply because they're the police, or suggested the woman was a drug dealer or in some other way got what was coming to her for shooting at the police when they broke down her door.
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Wow. The APD is screwed! Now the informant they used to justify the raid is saying he was told to lie about buying drugs at the old lady's house. Balko has the details at www.theagitator.com.
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That is extremely bad/sad. WHY?!? Let the speculation continue...
Count me in the camp that admires her for going down fighting and deeply disturbed that she had to go down at all. What a friggin' world.
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So much for Scalia's "professionalism."
The infamous quote "I am the only person in this room, that I know of, professional enough to carry a Glock .40" comes to mind.
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Wow. The APD is screwed! Now the informant they used to justify the raid is saying he was told to lie about buying drugs at the old lady's house. Balko has the details at
www.theagitator.com.
So, did the cops get him to lie, or is he lying now?
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Wow. The APD is screwed! Now the informant they used to justify the raid is saying he was told to lie about buying drugs at the old lady's house. Balko has the details at
www.theagitator.com.
So, did the cops get him to lie, or is he lying now?
Doesn't really matter, either way.
From Balko:
Attack the informant's credibility and you admit that you conducted a high-risk, forced-entry raid based entirely on a tip from an informant you now say is unreliable. You admit you did no corroborating investigation. You admit you didn't even send an officer to check to see if the informant was right about, for example, an external surveillance system. And all of this ineptitude led to the death of an innocent woman, not to mention to three officers getting wounded.
And that's if the guy's lying about the cover-up. If he's telling the truth? Now you're talking about a major-league *expletive deleted*it storm. If this guy's telling the truth, not only did the officers originally investigating this case lie, but the officers investigating after the shooting then lied to cover it up. That means you not only have corruption problems with your narcotics officers, but you have problems with your internal affairs unit, the cops who are charged with investigating the other officers.
In another update, it looks as though the judge's signature may have been forged the warrants.
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That's a whole lot of impopriety for one drug raid. What was the ulterior motive for such antics?
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In another update, it looks as though the judge's signature may have been forged the warrants.
WTF!? Do you have a link for that?
What was the ulterior motive for such antics?
Glory and promotion are the first ones that come to mind, unless the deceased had a sizable bank account that could be seized under the repugnant asset forfeiture laws.
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Nobody has been able to determine if Fulton County uses an electronic system for warrants, which would make the signatures irrelevant. So, this issue may be a non-issue.
Here's a link to the warrant.
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/pdf/searchwarrant.pdf
Here's a link to the article about the informant.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2006/11/27/1127metshoot_html.html
In a bit of good news, the CoP there has brought the FBI and GBI to investigate as well as suspending 7 narcotics officers