Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: RocketMan on November 28, 2015, 08:20:58 AM
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This shooting (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-28/gunman-who-stormed-colorado-planned-parenthood-clinic-surrenders), being in an abortion clinic, will gain a lot of traction with the left. We are going to hear about this incident repeatedly for a long time.
And to add to it, this was the second major shooting incident in Colorado Springs in less than a month. One of the dead was a cop.
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The black lives matter goons are going to be pissed. :lol:
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The black lives matter goons are going to be pissed. :lol:
Yeeepppp
The comments and facebook postings are alive liberals running their mouths about "Christian Terrorism!!111!!!!!" ;/
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Yeeepppp
The comments and facebook postings are alive liberals running their mouths about "Christian Terrorism!!111!!!!!" ;/
Everyone is quick point blame/hate/etc until all the facts are in.
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Right now it seems there's a lot of confusion, official included, regarding whether this was aimed at planned parenthood, or just in the vicinity of planned parenthood (and the vicinity of a half dozen other offices/businesses in the area).
Regardless, the mugshot shows a deranged individual. Supposedly he was both a former pastor and former law enforcement officer, so that certainly won't help optics regarding those two areas. It looks like much more information is needed, either way.
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He's definitely nuts. First reports I read was that he started off by shooting at passing cars so it appears that he was targeting anybody and everybody vs PP specifically...
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nutters are going to be involved in almost every case. Another guy that was 'on the radar', and a known freak, but nothing was done.
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nutters are going to be involved in almost every case. Another guy that was 'on the radar', and a known freak, but nothing was done.
Requiring criminal action prior to legal intervention is bad why?
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One interesting side note is that almost every article I've read describes him as "...a man in a long coat", which I assume is an allusion to trenchcoats, ala Columbine (given this happened in CO).
While in this case he certainly is a wierdo, I'm not sure wearing a long coat when weather is in the teens should be an indicator of bad behavior.
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They came right out and said trench coat on the news last night. You could tell they really wanted to make a connection to columbine
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Has anyone seen anything on weapons used? I just saw Obama released a statement about "weapons of war".
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There seems to be very little information, aside from the number of casualties, and the guy's name.
Are they waiting for the Sunday morning shows before they release anything, to get it into the full, weekly news cycle? [tinfoil]
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Has anyone seen anything on weapons used? I just saw Obama released a statement about "weapons of war".
Surprised it took this long.
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Has anyone seen anything on weapons used? I just saw Obama released a statement about "weapons of war".
One article claimed an AK style rifle. They were oddly careful not to call it an AK-47 for some reason.
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Given the lack of info about the nutter howling about planned parenthood i doubt it is pp related other than by coincidence. Because if that info existed it would have been trumpeted about.
All the articles i read about went in depth on nutter victims church going habits to the point of me wondering what the deal was. And the deal is likely an attemp to associate nutter with churchy sorts in light of the lack of evidence that nutter actually targetted the pp chophouse.
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"Weapons of war," you mean weapons intended by the Founding Fathers for We, the People, to keep and bear?
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"Weapons of war," you mean weapons intended by the Founding Fathers for We, the People, to keep and bear?
That's crazy talk. You're probably a terrorist.
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I'm gonna go with "batshit crazy".
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/court-records-colorado-planned-parenthood-shooter-not-republican-identifies-as-woman/#st_refDomain=www.facebook.com&st_refQuery=/l.php?u=https://shar.es/1cepDi&h=BAQFNbirWAQElNFxsG3QLNAP-HqCDB-MNRF3JoK8OJkLY0Q&enc=AZMMkY1W-O6ei79-RW6P4I4A0G21_cGGxBV_OdFjZU0YlKDEAkHPSgYcOrRXTjFYWivHL_RHafJfRN6qIQs55UCzZ6fxLAkInF-HSZIW_-zGyQ0SgdAxyOsSF6iiLLQoO0DGY2JmzxsvK-4hy4qvoGrfG_a_RBjLW92XUt9L8akPPIrju7zG84czWYYzl7DIN5I&s=1 (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/court-records-colorado-planned-parenthood-shooter-not-republican-identifies-as-woman/#st_refDomain=www.facebook.com&st_refQuery=/l.php?u=https://shar.es/1cepDi&h=BAQFNbirWAQElNFxsG3QLNAP-HqCDB-MNRF3JoK8OJkLY0Q&enc=AZMMkY1W-O6ei79-RW6P4I4A0G21_cGGxBV_OdFjZU0YlKDEAkHPSgYcOrRXTjFYWivHL_RHafJfRN6qIQs55UCzZ6fxLAkInF-HSZIW_-zGyQ0SgdAxyOsSF6iiLLQoO0DGY2JmzxsvK-4hy4qvoGrfG_a_RBjLW92XUt9L8akPPIrju7zG84czWYYzl7DIN5I&s=1)
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I'm gonna go with "batshit crazy".
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/court-records-colorado-planned-parenthood-shooter-not-republican-identifies-as-woman/#st_refDomain=www.facebook.com&st_refQuery=/l.php?u=https://shar.es/1cepDi&h=BAQFNbirWAQElNFxsG3QLNAP-HqCDB-MNRF3JoK8OJkLY0Q&enc=AZMMkY1W-O6ei79-RW6P4I4A0G21_cGGxBV_OdFjZU0YlKDEAkHPSgYcOrRXTjFYWivHL_RHafJfRN6qIQs55UCzZ6fxLAkInF-HSZIW_-zGyQ0SgdAxyOsSF6iiLLQoO0DGY2JmzxsvK-4hy4qvoGrfG_a_RBjLW92XUt9L8akPPIrju7zG84czWYYzl7DIN5I&s=1 (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/court-records-colorado-planned-parenthood-shooter-not-republican-identifies-as-woman/#st_refDomain=www.facebook.com&st_refQuery=/l.php?u=https://shar.es/1cepDi&h=BAQFNbirWAQElNFxsG3QLNAP-HqCDB-MNRF3JoK8OJkLY0Q&enc=AZMMkY1W-O6ei79-RW6P4I4A0G21_cGGxBV_OdFjZU0YlKDEAkHPSgYcOrRXTjFYWivHL_RHafJfRN6qIQs55UCzZ6fxLAkInF-HSZIW_-zGyQ0SgdAxyOsSF6iiLLQoO0DGY2JmzxsvK-4hy4qvoGrfG_a_RBjLW92XUt9L8akPPIrju7zG84czWYYzl7DIN5I&s=1)
So...bruce jenner on a bad hair day with an ak.
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One article claimed an AK style rifle. They were oddly careful not to call it an AK-47 for some reason.
I'd bet it was not an AK. If so, the media and Obama would be all over it like stink on *expletive deleted*it.
During the hostage taking, I heard a report that it was a long gun, hunting type. Can't remember which network.
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In laws didn't see the humor of my laugh when I heard a woman say that the gunfirw sounded like "one of those AKs." Like she's an expert on the sounds of rifle fire.
I just love how a nut job goes shooting, and ends up in Planned Parenthood, and half the people I hear are crying that he was a right-wing nut (with no evidence) and the other bunch are hailing him as a Christian warrior killing the baby killers (again, no evidence). I guess everything can be spun these days...
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Maybe that woman has watched "Heartbreak Ridge," like, 100 times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIv_RrgCfWs
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Looks like the story will disappear down the memory hole. Doesn't fit the prevailing narrative.
No obvious ties to anything/anyone "right wing".
Or it will be used as an occasional example of what happens due to the climate of hatred the anti abortion folks create; despite there being zero evidence that is the case.
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Looks like the story will disappear down the memory hole. Doesn't fit the prevailing narrative.
No obvious ties to anything/anyone "right wing".
Or it will be used as an occasional example of what happens due to the climate of hatred the anti abortion folks create; despite there being zero evidence that is the case.
Actually I just read that he supposedly said "no more baby parts" as he was led away. This was on Fox News, quoted from an anonymous LE at the scene. I saw that planned parenthood is already spinning this to negate all the youtube videos. They will probably have some success with that with the general public, and it will all be because of this idiot (if the current narrative is true).
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Interesting. Police will not release any info, including weapon used. (I still bet it was not an AK)
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/29/police-wont-release-motive-in-planned-parenthood-shooting/
Police say in a statement Sunday that they are sealing the warrants related to the case against 57-year-old Robert Lewis Dear. They say they are not providing information on the weapon used in Friday’s shooting, a timeline of events or a motive of the suspect.
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Or it will be used as an occasional example of what happens due to the climate of hatred the anti abortion folks create; despite there being zero evidence that is the case.
Evidence is overrated. It fits the narrative, so they'll run with it.
It's all in the spin.
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Planned Parenthood must be absolutely steamed at the way this guy interfered with their operation. He spent hours killing a mere three people, and they didn't even get any body parts out of it.
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The media is definitely trying to get as much mileage out of the term "right wing terrorism" as much as they can.
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Well, here we go. As per MSM, the undercover videos are now discredited. Liberal logic is funny and sad.
http://twitchy.com/2015/11/30/cbs-news-casually-refers-to-undercover-planned-parenthood-videos-as-now-discredited/
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Is there some way this can be blamed on Muslims? Because in that case instant conclusions and discrediting a whole group seem to be fine by the standards round here.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
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Is there some way this can be blamed on Muslims? Because in that case instant conclusions and discrediting a whole group seem to be fine by the standards round here.
Oh for *expletive deleted*s sake seriously?
Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.
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Is there some way this can be blamed on Muslims? Because in that case instant conclusions and discrediting a whole group seem to be fine by the standards round here.
I just can't tell if you're a major troll or if you're really that *expletive deleted*ing stupid.
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I just can't tell if you're a major troll or if you're really that *expletive deleted*ing stupid.
I'm pretty well convinced at this point that the two are not mutually exclusive.
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I just can't tell if you're a major troll or if you're really that *expletive deleted*ing stupid.
Seriously? Every time there is a terror attack, someone here races to blame it on Muslims and then to use the event to talk about how all Muslims should be kicked out of America or are part of the conspiracy. This has been the case even when the terrorist turned out to be in fact be an anti-Muslim crusader in Norway.
Now there's a mass shooting where the initial obvious answer is that abortion politics had something to do with it. Never mind that even here some people were less than disapproving of the shooting of an abortion doctor in Church - it's wrong to jump to conclusions! Media bias media bias!
How you people can't see that what's happening here is exactly what you do to Muslims is beyond me.
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Seriously? Every time there is a terror attack, someone here races to blame it on Muslims and then to use the event to talk about how all Muslims should be kicked out of America or are part of the conspiracy. This has been the case even when the terrorist turned out to be in fact be an anti-Muslim crusader in Norway.
Now there's a mass shooting where the initial obvious answer is that abortion politics had something to do with it. Never mind that even here some people were less than disapproving of the shooting of an abortion doctor in Church - it's wrong to jump to conclusions! Media bias media bias!
How you people can't see that what's happening here is exactly what you do to Muslims is beyond me.
Nah, this shooting was done by a mentally ill, likely left leaning whack job, as in most mass shootings in America. Its almost always leftists or their neo national socialist cousins (including the Norway shooter) who do these shootings. Sorry if that offends you.
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Seriously? Every time there is a terror attack, someone here races to blame it on Muslims and then to use the event to talk about how all Muslims should be kicked out of America or are part of the conspiracy. This has been the case even when the terrorist turned out to be in fact be an anti-Muslim crusader in Norway.
Now there's a mass shooting where the initial obvious answer is that abortion politics had something to do with it. Never mind that even here some people were less than disapproving of the shooting of an abortion doctor in Church - it's wrong to jump to conclusions! Media bias media bias!
How you people can't see that what's happening here is exactly what you do to Muslims is beyond me.
The difference is there is no widespread ideological or geographical base in Christianity for religious violence.
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The difference is there is no widespread ideological or geographical base in Christianity for religious violence.
Nor is there much of a base (should I say a Qaeda?) for violence within the American anti-abortion movement. Much less than the situation might suggest.
Maybe folks would be more inclined to see an international baby-killer-killing conspiracy, if there were more televised mass beheadings of abortionists.
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Nor is there much of a base (should I say a Qaeda?) for violence within the American anti-abortion movement. Much less than the situation might suggest.
Maybe folks would be more inclined to see an international baby-killer-killing conspiracy, if there were more televised mass beheadings of abortionists.
Keep shoveling in folks from North Africa and the Middle East and the pro-abortion crowd might pine for hte good old days of Falwell and Graham.
http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com/2012/07/execution-caught-on-video-in-saudi.html
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z9btwp0wAHo/T_BSRJA7w_I/AAAAAAAAEcU/Ak9WlC_0YXY/s1600/saudi+execution.JPG
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Is there some way this can be blamed on Muslims? Because in that case instant conclusions and discrediting a whole group seem to be fine by the standards round here.
If you're that constantly offended by the culture here, there are other boards...
That, or you really get off on trolling the place.
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Seriously? Every time there is a terror attack, someone here races to blame it on Muslims and then to use the event to talk about how all Muslims should be kicked out of America or are part of the conspiracy. This has been the case even when the terrorist turned out to be in fact be an anti-Muslim crusader in Norway.
Now there's a mass shooting where the initial obvious answer is that abortion politics had something to do with it. Never mind that even here some people were less than disapproving of the shooting of an abortion doctor in Church - it's wrong to jump to conclusions! Media bias media bias!
How you people can't see that what's happening here is exactly what you do to Muslims is beyond me.
DeSelby, if you disdain us here so much, why do you remain here? I would liken you remaining to continuously bashing your head against a rock wall - - - - it feels good when you stop.
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/index.html
Mr. Dear 'is a warrior for the babies'.
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/index.html
Mr. Dear 'is a warrior for the babies'.
https://youtu.be/9pdpLAn8mh4
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/index.html
Mr. Dear 'is a warrior for the babies'.
So if he comes out and says he did it in the name of Christianity.....
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So if he comes out and says he did it in the name of Christianity.....
It wouldn't matter, they're already calling him a "christian terrorist"
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It wouldn't matter, they're already calling him a "christian terrorist"
Don't worry the ones screaming Islamic Terrorism will make excuses if he comes out he did it in the name of Christianity.
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Don't worry the ones screaming Islamic Terrorism will make excuses if he comes out he did it in the name of Christianity.
That's what bugs me about this. One crazy *expletive deleted*hole does not a terrorist make. Attempting some strange form equivocation with actual terror groups is asinine.
* feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen anyone labeling this guy the "abortion clinic jihadist"
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So do we know the type of gun yet?
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That's what bugs me about this. One crazy *expletive deleted*hole does not a terrorist make.
One crazy a-hole can be a terrorist if he believes that his actions of violence will bring attention to his cause.
I remember some of the bombing and fire bombings of abortion clinics in the 1980's and 1990's where more of them were lead by one person.
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One crazy a-hole can be a terrorist if he believes that his actions of violence will bring attention to his cause.
I remember some of the bombing and fire bombings of abortion clinics in the 1980's and 1990's where more of them were lead by one person.
I guess Gabby Gifford's shooter is a terrorist, too.
Personally, I categorize people hearing voices and telling neighbors that he's a secret agent differently from people planning an attack for a year+ in coordination, but, hey, we need to prove that Christianity is a scary religion and Islam isn't.
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One crazy a-hole can be a terrorist if he believes that his actions of violence will bring attention to his cause.
I remember some of the bombing and fire bombings of abortion clinics in the 1980's and 1990's where more of them were lead by one person.
Holy Cow! You are so off the rails into moral equivalency and relativism that I may have lost all respect for you.
If the conservative Protestants and Catholics wanted to make a statement and call out the dogs of war against the abortionists believe me you wouldn't be holding up crazy homeless guys and random lunatics from two decades ago as "Christian soldiers".
If Christians wanted to use violence against the abortion industry believe me, the bloodshed wouldn't only be limited to the innocent unborn little babies ripped to shreds, skulls crushed or whatever other evil method the more progressive amongst us have thought up as it currently stands.
Us Christians have always had the power to cause death destruction and mayhem to the "progressive" death cult industry of abortion if we were so inclined. The means and motivation are certainly there yet we are restrained by our theology based upon the very words of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
You actually compare the peaceful Christian pro life movement with the death cult born of Islam?
I'll let you use your imagination with what you can do with your relativism and moral equivalence on the subject.
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C'mon Ron, don't hold back, tell us how.you really feel.
Not that I necessarily disagree with you....
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Holy Cow! You are so off the rails into moral equivalency and relativism that I may have lost all respect for you.
If the conservative Protestants and Catholics wanted to make a statement and call out the dogs of war against the abortionists believe me you wouldn't be holding up crazy homeless guys and random lunatics from two decades ago as "Christian soldiers".
If Christians wanted to use violence against the abortion industry believe me, the bloodshed wouldn't only be limited to the innocent unborn little babies ripped to shreds, skulls crushed or whatever other evil method the more progressive amongst us have thought up as it currently stands.
Us Christians have always had the power to cause death destruction and mayhem to the "progressive" death cult industry of abortion if we were so inclined. The means and motivation are certainly there yet we are restrained by our theology based upon the very words of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
You actually compare the peaceful Christian pro life movement with the death cult born of Islam?
I'll let you use your imagination with what you can do with your relativism and moral equivalence on the subject.
I didn't mention the pro life movement, I said people have done violence in the name of Christianity. Doesn't matter of they are crazy in regards to societal norms or not, perhaps the ones who perverse the Islam religion are just as equally crazy as the ones who perverse Christianity. In the western world we have education on our side, that helped shape the Christian religion from being violent to what it is now. Islam fanatics seem to prey upon the uneducated to do their bidding.
After the Constantinian shift, Christianity became entangled with government. While anthropologists have shown that throughout history the relationship between religion and politics has been complex, there is no doubt that religious institutions, including Christian ones, have been used coercively by governments, and have themselves used coercion. Examples include: during the Christian persecution of paganism under Theodosius I, forced conversion and violent assimilation of pagan tribes in medieval Europe, the Inquisition, including its manifestations in Goa, Mexico, Portugal, and Spain, forced conversion of indigenous children in North American and Australia, and, since 1992, against Hindus in Northeast India.
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Doesn't matter of they are crazy in regards to societal norms or not, perhaps the ones who perverse the Islam religion are just as equally crazy as the ones who perverse Christianity.
Bolding Mine.
If you read the Quran, it starts out peaceful, but then later counterdicts those peaceful dictates/ideas with more aggressive warlike dictates/ideas. Mirroring Mohammed's life as he went from idealistic to conquering warlord. It enables Muslims to point at the "peaceful" parts of the Quran as "a religion of peace" all the while preparing for the time when they go from "put-upon minority" to "ruling majority" and enact sharia law.
Sorry, but it's a religion/cult of war and conquest not peaceful servitude.
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Islam fanatics seem to prey upon the uneducated to do their bidding.
No, they don't. Lack of education is not an indicator of whether or not someone may become radicalized.
In the western world we have education on our side, that helped shape the Christian religion from being violent to what it is now.
Just for clarification, the teachings of Christ/the Bible didn't need "shaping" to be non-violent. It was the early modern Christians who needed to be reformed away from the popular (un-Biblical) belief that the state should enforce religion.
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I didn't mention the pro life movement, I said people have done violence in the name of Christianity. Doesn't matter of they are crazy in regards to societal norms or not, perhaps the ones who perverse the Islam religion are just as equally crazy as the ones who perverse Christianity. In the western world we have education on our side, that helped shape the Christian religion from being violent to what it is now. Islam fanatics seem to prey upon the uneducated to do their bidding.
If you cared about Muslim American citizens you would be against importing more 2nd and 3rd world Muslims.
Why would we want to import folks from Muslim majority countries where the norm is little to no religious freedom, the subjugation of women, the death penalty for being homosexual, hatred for unbelievers, especially the Jews and in some cases pedophilia?
I'm not sure it is accurate to call those who practice Islam as it has been practiced historically, "perverse". I think they would contend that those who compromise with the Christians and Jews, those who adopt the norms of western civilization are the ones perverting Islam.
Let us see if our Muslim citizens can square the circle of modernity and Islam and bring about some form of reformation they can export.
There has not been a single example of a western nation becoming stronger due to high immigration levels of Muslims. In fact the opposite can easily be demonstrated just by watching the chaos unfolding in Europe.
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I didn't mention the pro life movement, I said people have done violence in the name of Christianity. Doesn't matter of they are crazy in regards to societal norms or not, perhaps the ones who perverse the Islam religion are just as equally crazy as the ones who perverse Christianity. In the western world we have education on our side, that helped shape the Christian religion from being violent to what it is now. Islam fanatics seem to prey upon the uneducated to do their bidding.
No, Christianity was born as a peaceful movement. That was the example set by Jesus in the beginning. He was not a conquering Warlord. Everyone brings up the Crusades among other things, but that was 1000 years later and it was in response to the real attacks of Muslim Warlords attacking the Byzantines as well as others. It was only in the 700's that Muslims invaded France and were stopped by Martel. They weren't kicked out of Spain until the 1400's. I think sitting back and blaming stuff like the Crusades solely on Christians is ignorance of history. Even spanish inquisition started up soon after Christian rulers finally kicked the Muslims out of Spain in the late 1400's. Would that have happened had Muslim Warlords never invaded in the first place? I am not trying to deflect blame on that getting way out of control, but it is still partly tied in with warlord traditions that Islam started with.
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and in some cases pedophilia?
Like, oh I dunno, Mohamed himself? :lol:
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No, Christianity was born as a peaceful movement. That was the example set by Jesus in the beginning. He was not a conquering Warlord. Everyone brings up the Crusades among other things, but that was 1000 years later and it was in response to the real attacks of Muslim Warlords attacking the Byzantines as well as others. It was only in the 700's that Muslims invaded France and were stopped by Martel. They weren't kicked out of Spain until the 1400's. I think sitting back and blaming stuff like the Crusades solely on Christians is ignorance of history. Even spanish inquisition started up soon after Christian rulers finally kicked the Muslims out of Spain in the late 1400's. Would that have happened had Muslim Warlords never invaded in the first place? I am not trying to deflect blame on that getting way out of control, but it is still partly tied in with warlord traditions that Islam started with.
Aside from the Crusades and Inquisition, though, people believed that government should oversee the church, and regulate tithing and church attendance, church offices, etc. The Reformation didn't stop it, either. I don't think it was until late into the Enlightenment era that Westerners began to step back from this way of thinking.
My point isn't that religious violence is endemic to Christianity. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm just saying that Christianity [sic] by force was more widespread than the Crusades [also sic] and Inquisition.
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http://www.thestranger.com/features/feature/2015/12/09/23243178/when-a-mass-killer-is-a-white-christian-hes-a-lone-lunatic-but-when-hes-muslim-he-represents-all-muslims
You can see some of these arguments articulated in this very thread.
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http://www.thestranger.com/features/feature/2015/12/09/23243178/when-a-mass-killer-is-a-white-christian-hes-a-lone-lunatic-but-when-hes-muslim-he-represents-all-muslims
You can see some of these arguments articulated in this very thread.
... and the article is bovine excrement, for reasons already stated in this thread.
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http://www.thestranger.com/features/feature/2015/12/09/23243178/when-a-mass-killer-is-a-white-christian-hes-a-lone-lunatic-but-when-hes-muslim-he-represents-all-muslims
You can see some of these arguments articulated in this very thread.
From what I understand, quite a few folks do indeed try to shut down abortion clinics via terror. It ranges from the small stuff like attempting to intimidate staff, acid attacks, minor arson, etc to the big stuff like kidnapping, murder, major arson, assassinations, etc. Which is the definition of terrorism before we started monkeying with it. "Trying to change other people's actions or beliefs, by using terror".
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States
I do laugh at the cognitive processes of certain folks.
"All gun owners are evil terroristers that kick puppies, but don't judge all Muslims by the actions of the few." vs "Individual crazy people that use guns shouldn't get all gun owners blamed, but we should ban, register or deport all Muslims."
Both are using the exact same argument of the other side for the same reason, and generally don't see the irony. Usually because they are too busy launching into stats and canned talking points that completely miss the point. That said, there is plenty of rational positions that don't believe all Muslims or gun owners are squeaky clean, and that some reasonable steps should be taken. For example, I wouldn't mind if private sales had some mechanism available to the public to ensure the other person wasn't a felon or prohibited person. Like a number I could call or cheap scanner I could use to run a drivers license or SSN through to give a simple pass/fail. Tis why at the moment, I absolutely do not do private sales to anyone I don't know exceptionally well.
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http://www.thestranger.com/features/feature/2015/12/09/23243178/when-a-mass-killer-is-a-white-christian-hes-a-lone-lunatic-but-when-hes-muslim-he-represents-all-muslims
You can see some of these arguments articulated in this very thread.
You're right, CLEARLY it's just anti-nonwhites bias. It's not things like:
“He said he worked with the government, and everybody was out to get him, and he knew the secrets of the U.S.A. He said, ‘Nobody touch me, because I’ve got enough information to put the whole U.S. of A in danger.’ It was very crazy.”
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“We’re not isolationists,” one resident said. “You know how whenever someone goes crazy, the neighbors say he was so quiet and normal. That wasn’t the case here. He was weird. Everyone kept an eye on him.”
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“He was just always saying, ‘I know the U.S. is trying to kill everybody’ and do this and do that,” said one resident here. “He [said he] was an undercover [agent]. Just craziness. Just pure, right-out craziness all the time. I’m kind of glad he’s put away now,” he said.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/alleged-colorado-gunman-was-adrift-and-alienated/2015/11/28/7cb93b62-95f5-11e5-8aa0-5d0946560a97_story.html)
Find me any statements like that about the terrorists in San Bernadino, instead of:
“I haven’t heard anything,” the elder Syed Farook told The News before his son’s name became public. “He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim.” (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/active-shooter-incident-san-bernardino-california-article-1.2453002)
I think the Virginia Tech shooter was crazy too. Oh, that's right, asians don't count as minorities, so I guess that's just another "white shooter" who was crazy.
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There is a fairly well documented history of at least certain Muslims committing violence and sponsoring violence against Western countries. From what we have heard of these two in California, they were in contact radicals overseas and received funding from someone. While that does not indict "ALL" Muslims, it does mean they were part of an organized group. In the eyes of most Americans, we don't have many of those people around us so we tend to lump them together. I am sure Muslims overseas NEVER lump all Americans together or say they oppose our Govt, but not us.
The Virginia Tech shooter was Korean. Since there was no history of Koreans sponsoring or committing terrorist acts or mass shootings, why would you expect anyone to start talking about ALL Koreans as potential threats?
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Aside from the Crusades and Inquisition, though, people believed that government should oversee the church, and regulate tithing and church attendance, church offices, etc. The Reformation didn't stop it, either. I don't think it was until late into the Enlightenment era that Westerners began to step back from this way of thinking.
My point isn't that religious violence is endemic to Christianity. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm just saying that Christianity [sic] by force was more widespread than the Crusades [also sic] and Inquisition.
I think I know what you are getting to, but how much of that was based more in Colonialism? Moral Equivilency hadn't been invented yet.
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Of course, it would not be fair to judge all gun-owning conservative white Christian males or gun-owning violent video-game playing males for the actions of the crazy ones in those groups.
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Of course, it would not be fair to judge all gun-owning conservative white Christian males or gun-owning violent video-game playing males for the actions of the crazy ones in those groups.
No, it's not.
You have yet to provide any evidence that the San Bernadino terrorists were crazy, so I'm not seeing your point.
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Islamic extremism isn't a perversion of islam. Peaceful islam is a perversion of islam. The example for muslims to follow was a bloodthirsty, murderous pedophile, and no amount of apologetics can change that, or the fact that Muslims are supposed to hold him up as an example to follow.
Period. Any other conclusion is, quite simply, a weak attempt at SJW-tier rationalization.
Contrast that to Christianity. While yes, there have evils committed in the name of Christ, it's a pretty undeniable fact that Christ's attributes are a worthy example to follow, and the central idea of love and forgiveness is a sharp contrast to the barbarism of Muhammed and his conquests.
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Islamic extremism isn't a perversion of islam. Peaceful islam is a perversion of islam. The example for muslims to follow was a bloodthirsty, murderous pedophile, and no amount of apologetics can change that, or the fact that Muslims are supposed to hold him up as an example to follow.
Period. Any other conclusion is, quite simply, a weak attempt at SJW-tier rationalization.
Contrast that to Christianity. While yes, there have evils committed in the name of Christ, it's a pretty undeniable fact that Christ's attributes are a worthy example to follow, and the central idea of love and forgiveness is a sharp contrast to the barbarism of Muhammed and his conquests.
Where's the 'Like' button?
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http://www.thestranger.com/features/feature/2015/12/09/23243178/when-a-mass-killer-is-a-white-christian-hes-a-lone-lunatic-but-when-hes-muslim-he-represents-all-muslims
You can see some of these arguments articulated in this very thread.
From the other thread on Muslim fanaticism:
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=50280.msg1025008#new
Which it is obvious some never read.
One bit of data:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unzcloud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F11%2Fmoderate-muslims.jpg&hash=3cedcd188eacd158840e832918a6fb00a6407d7a)
Let us look at proportions:
36% Death Penalty for Apostasy
46% Death Penalty for Adultery
68% Sharia
86% Wife's subordination
When roughly 36% of Christians think that there should be a gov't-imposed death penalty for apostasy and nearly half for adultery, you might have an argument regarding moral equivalence.
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But on the plus side in the eyes of many, ISIS executes gay men by throwing them off buildings.
And let us not forget the Christians who are working towards the same end: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kaoma-uganda-gays-american-ministers-20140323-story.html
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But on the plus side in the eyes of many, ISIS executes gay men by throwing them off buildings.
Love Gravity Wins. Maybe Dan Savage could tell them it gets better.
Did you read that after they throw them from a ten-story building to their deaths, they actually throw stones at the corpses for a while? It seems the last bit of grotesque absurdity on top of an already evil act. They must hate homosexuals like pro-choicers hate babies.
And let us not forget the Christians who are working towards the same end: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kaoma-uganda-gays-american-ministers-20140323-story.html
Get your links messed up? I did not read about any vigilante roof-tossing of homosexuals. I did read about a Russian law aimed at reducing pedophilia, which no reasonable man could object to.
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Get your links messed up? I did not read about any vigilante roof-tossing of homosexuals. I did read about a Russian law aimed at reducing pedophilia, which no reasonable man could object to.
That's all I read.
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Love Gravity Wins. Maybe Dan Savage could tell them it gets better.
Did you read that after they throw them from a ten-story building to their deaths, they actually throw stones at the corpses for a while? It seems the last bit of grotesque absurdity on top of an already evil act. They must hate homosexuals like pro-choicers hate babies.
Get your links messed up? I did not read about any vigilante roof-tossing of homosexuals. I did read about a Russian law aimed at reducing pedophilia, which no reasonable man could object to.
It had stuff about the Ugandans too, who at one point were sentencing them to death.
But then again, it IS Uganda. I think they're constantly looking for excuses to massacre each other. that's another discussion entirely.
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Of course, it would not be fair to judge all gun-owning conservative white Christian males or gun-owning violent video-game playing males for the actions of the crazy ones in those groups.
So how many folks from Muslim majority nations would you like to see allowed to immigrate to the USA?
10,000? 20,000 per year? How about 100,000 or 200,000 per year?
Why not just open the border to all that want to come?
What is the acceptable level in your mind?
Assuming you want some numerical limitation what is your rational behind the limit?
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But on the plus side in the eyes of many, ISIS executes gay men by throwing them off buildings.
And let us not forget the Christians who are working towards the same end: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kaoma-uganda-gays-american-ministers-20140323-story.html
So... nothing on the terrorists being insane? Have we just abandoned that line of argument and moved to saying they're just the same a Christians, now?
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So... nothing on the terrorists being insane? Have we just abandoned that line of argument and moved to saying they're just the same a Christians, now?
Stop! You're oppressing his narrative! :laugh:
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So how many folks from Muslim majority nations would you like to see allowed to immigrate to the USA?
10,000? 20,000 per year? How about 100,000 or 200,000 per year?
Why not just open the border to all that want to come?
What is the acceptable level in your mind?
Assuming you want some numerical limitation what is your rational behind the limit?
I think you have me confused with someone else. I have offered no opinions or comments on the Muslim immigration issue.
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I think I know what you are getting to, but how much of that was based more in Colonialism?
No. I'm talking mainly about European history, and religious politics within the various European states.
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I think you have me confused with someone else. I have offered no opinions or comments on the Muslim immigration issue.
Your comments attempting to draw comparisons between Islam and Christianity would lead one to believe you find no difference between them regarding the immigration issue.
So you're being coy or playing devils advocate, fair enough.
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http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html
I find it interesting that on the Jihadist side, a couple of the attacks had dead in the double-digits and none of the right-wing attacks did.
http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/analysis.html
More jihadists charged than other groupings.
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http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html
I find it interesting that on the Jihadist side, a couple of the attacks had dead in the double-digits and none of the right-wing attacks did.
http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/analysis.html
More jihadists charged than other groupings.
There are several examples like this one in the "right wing" column:
In 2010 Raymond Peake killed a man at a gun range in Carlisle, Pennsylvania in order to steal an AR-15. Peake told investigators he stole the weapon for use in an organization seeking the overthrow of the American government that he refused to name. Peake pleaded no contest in 2012.
How do we know he's right wing? Same with anti-gay. Do you have to be right wing to be anti-gay? Or can you be of another political persuasion? Or politically agnostic? Or perhaps you did it based on religion (which includes non-christian religions)?
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Didn't some "news" organization recently make claims about the danger of "right-wing terrorism," which turned out to include precious little in the way of "right-wing" perpetrators?
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There are several examples like this one in the "right wing" column:
How do we know he's right wing? Same with anti-gay. Do you have to be right wing to be anti-gay? Or can you be of another political persuasion? Or politically agnostic? Or perhaps you did it based on religion (which includes non-christian religions)?
The dataset breaks it down to Jihadists vs. non-Jihadists. So as far as I can see, right wing, left wing and politically agnostic are all in the 'non-Jihadist' category.
http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/methodology.html
A description of their methodology is above.
The dataset seeks to include all American citizens and residents indicted or convicted for terrorism crimes who were inspired by or associated with Al Qaeda and its affiliated groups as well as those citizens and residents who were killed before they could be indicted but have been widely reported to have worked with or been inspired by al-Qaeda and its affiliated groups. The dataset does not include extremists tied to violent Islamist groups that do not target the United States as part of al-Qaeda’s war, for example Hamas and Hezbollah, nor does it include individuals who were acquitted or charged with lesser crimes, for example immigration violations, that cannot be shown to involve some kind of terrorism-related crime.
The dataset also includes individuals inspired by right wing, left wing, and other non-Jihadist political ideologies, who have been indicted for terrorism related crimes. The data on non-Jihadist extremists is less developed than the data on Jihadist extremists but where available it is included to provide a comparison across ideologies. The dataset relies mainly upon court documents, wire service reports, and news reports as sources.
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The dataset breaks it down to Jihadists vs. non-Jihadists. So as far as I can see, right wing, left wing and politically agnostic are all in the 'non-Jihadist' category.
http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/methodology.html
A description of their methodology is above.
The dataset seeks to include all American citizens and residents indicted or convicted for terrorism crimes who were inspired by or associated with Al Qaeda and its affiliated groups as well as those citizens and residents who were killed before they could be indicted but have been widely reported to have worked with or been inspired by al-Qaeda and its affiliated groups. The dataset does not include extremists tied to violent Islamist groups that do not target the United States as part of al-Qaeda’s war, for example Hamas and Hezbollah, nor does it include individuals who were acquitted or charged with lesser crimes, for example immigration violations, that cannot be shown to involve some kind of terrorism-related crime.
The dataset also includes individuals inspired by right wing, left wing, and other non-Jihadist political ideologies, who have been indicted for terrorism related crimes. The data on non-Jihadist extremists is less developed than the data on Jihadist extremists but where available it is included to provide a comparison across ideologies. The dataset relies mainly upon court documents, wire service reports, and news reports as sources.
No big problems with it if that's their methodology, except the header in the first link specifically says "deadly right wing attacks".
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Last I checked anti-abortionists have not set up their own nation-state (as the JV) and started stoning people, hacking their heads off, putting them in a cage and either lighting it on fire or dropping it in water.
(And I'm not referring to just Daesh/ISIS, either....)
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a Russian law aimed at reducing pedophilia, which no reasonable man could object to.
Have you heard about an American law aimed at reducing mass shootings, which no reasonable man could object to?
Yeah. It's exactly the same. Works about as well for the stated goal as gun control does. The first case under that law was a complaint against a dairy producer because they had a rainbow on their packaging.
A reasonable man most certainly should object to these kinds of laws.
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Have you heard about an American law aimed at reducing mass shootings, which no reasonable man could object to?
Yeah. It's exactly the same. Works about as well for the stated goal as gun control does. The first case under that law was a complaint against a dairy producer because they had a rainbow on their packaging.
A rainbow? Isn't that a symbol that God's going to judge sinners with fire, instead of water? ;)