Author Topic: Apologies to the members of the Political forum (Read 12170 times)

MicroBalrog · « **on:** June 25, 2008, 07:57:44 PM »

Dear everybody!

Especially Manedwolf!

You have argued at the past that McCain is bad, but much, much better than Obama, and deserves to be the Republican candidate. I stated, at the past, that the GOP has made an error by not electing... anybody else as their nominee, and that thus, screwing it over by voting for a third-party candidate was worth it, because it would open the doors to a better GOP candidate later.

However, Obama's support for the "Fairness Doctrine" would change the balance terribly - talk radio, one of the key weapons in the struggle against Socialist Idiots And Their War on Everying Good and True, would be essentially destroyed by this. Freedom of speech is the key value. It's one of the great things America once brought to the world. Destroy that, and the light goes out in te last country it hasn't gone out yet.

Ladies and gentlemen, I hereby express my apologies for previously arguing with you, and hereby admit that those of you that can vote in the United States Presidential election in 2008, should likely vote for McCain (though I still don't think Barr is stupid or his voters are crazy. It's just there isn't enough of them.)

So yeah. You have all been right, and I was wrong on the McCain issue.

He's horrid. But Obama will swallow our souls.

lacoochee · « **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2008, 08:40:56 PM »

Amen brother MicroBalrog...

Fjolnirsson · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2008, 08:58:17 PM »

Yeah, it's taken me a while, but I am coming around to this, too. I have accepted it intellectually, but not in my heart. As someone else said, McCain is survivable, but I truly believe Obama would destroy our country.

taurusowner · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2008, 09:15:48 PM »

I too am having a VERY difficult time imagining what kind of candidate the GOP will put forth in subsequent years like 2012 and 2016. If McCain wins, count on more of the same for the foreseeable future. I very much doubt a true conservative will be able to run in the republican party ever again if McCain wins.

But as they say, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want. McCain is what we have. It would do us good to think about the next 4 years first. For to even be allowed to be conservative in 2012 and 2016, we must get through these next 4 years. Our doom may be sealed, but we have a chance of at least putting it off for a while. I just wish there was some way to vote for McCain but still send him the message that we know he's a fool and we are only siding with him to be against Obama.

Now everyone go buy an AR or AK while they can

wmenorr67 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2008, 10:02:31 PM »

We accept your apologies and forgive your error of ways.

Don't let it happen again. grin

Manedwolf · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2008, 04:08:58 AM »

Thank you for realizing, yes. While principles are admirable, in this case, it's simply survival. If you're on a ship and have a choice of steering towards the enemy with machine guns or the enemy with 16" shells aimed at you, it's obvious to me which you have to choose, despite the fact that it's going to hurt. At least you're less likely to be sunk, as is the certainty with the other way.

I know McCain absolutely sucks. He's a retread of stuff that never really worked.

But he IS survivable. Obama would blow the foundation out from under everything, and then wonder why the building fell down. By that point, it'd be too late, and we'd be a third-rate third-world, the Great Experiment would be filed away as "failure".

I do not want that to happen.

Quote from: taurusowner on June 25, 2008, 08:15:48 PM

Now everyone go buy an AR or AK while they can

Trying to finish a FAL and get a Daewoo, actually. I want to get all the stuff I want in case the law makes it impossible to ever again and even makes it illegal to talk about them.

taurusowner · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2008, 04:13:04 AM »

I think an appropriate analogy would be McCain is like getting terminal cancer, Obama is like getting Ebola. You're gonna die either way. One will be drawn out, and you'll have some time to be with family and friends. But you'll never be as healthy as you are now. The other is going to turn you into a dead bloody pulp in a few days.

Wang · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2008, 04:33:37 AM »

Obama is the Anti-Christ. Just kidding.

ilbob · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2008, 04:53:45 AM »

Quote from: taurusowner on June 26, 2008, 03:13:04 AM

I think an appropriate analogy would be McCain is like getting terminal cancer, Obama is like getting Ebola. You're gonna die either way. One will be drawn out, and you'll have some time to be with family and friends. But you'll never be as healthy as you are now. The other is going to turn you into a dead bloody pulp in a few days.

The way I see it a president Obama is either the destroyer of the US as anything even remotely like what we have had, or another ineffective Jimmy Carter style president who runs the place into the ground leading the electorate to select another Reagan to repair the damages.

roo_ster · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2008, 05:00:55 AM »

Don't worry 'bout it. Liberty-minded folks of good conscience have been known to come to different conclusions and/or judgments.

It is easy to see how far McCain is from optimal. Gimme a minute or two to catalog the particulars and I can even work myself up into a froth of rage & dismay.

If I do vote for him*, it won't be in blindness to his faults. It will be a delaying action to give liberty-minded folks more time to rally. There is nothing dishonorable in that. It just requires acknowledging the imperfect system and sometimes-ugly reality.

Whether the GPMG vs 16" gun or terminal cancer vs ebola analogy is correct, both the GPMG & cancer give We the People a little more time with a little more liberty. And that is not something to turn your nose up at.

Many times I have been asked/ordered to perform a task with little or sub-optimal materials & resources. After working like heck to wrest the last few resources, I then proceed to "Do the best I can with what I've got to work with."

In this case, that means likely supporting McCain and making damn sure my Senators, Representative, and Governor know that their allegiance is to ME and my fellow citizens, not to McCain and his agenda.

* I use "if" because he could always stab me in the back, yet again, and drive me off into a rage against RINOS and their ilk.

The Annoyed Man · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2008, 06:07:31 AM »

I'm still not casting a vote for McCain, but he is the lesser of two evils.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2008, 06:38:40 AM »

Quote

Whether the GPMG vs 16" gun or terminal cancer vs ebola analogy is correct, both the GPMG & cancer give We the People a little more time with a little more liberty. And that is not something to turn your nose up at.

THis is true. But at some point, there is some deep moral surrender implicated by - not by voting to the lesser evil, but by persuading yourself you can never win. A deep, disturbing horror.

longeyes · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2008, 07:49:07 AM »

Nobody here loves McCain. He's mediocre and a wobbly, but he isn't Obama. Obama is The Sixties Emerging Undead from the grave. He's a dangerous radical we can ill afford, now or ever, but especially now. With McCain we buy time. That's the best we can do right now.

Play this game one inning at a time.

seeker_two · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:05:32 AM »

McCain's response to the Heller decision has changed my mind.....I MAY vote for him in November.....depending on what he proposes between now and then.....

I may put up with the illegals as long as I can keep my guns and religion..... Wink

The Annoyed Man · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:30:46 AM »

Why don't you all just flock to the first candidate who offers you free beer and t-shirts?

We've already seen one who will offer you all of your Constitutional rights, but apparently what wasn't all that great of a bargain.

T-shirts, beers, and late-plays it is. Sure, McCain stepped up to the plate! Way to go man! They need to clean up the field now, though.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:32:12 AM »

Quote from: nobody's_hero on June 26, 2008, 07:30:46 AM

Why don't you all just flock to the first candidate who offers you free beer and t-shirts?

We've already seen one who will offer you all of your Constitutional rights, but apparently what wasn't all that great of a bargain.

T-shirts, beers, and late-plays it is. Sure, McCain stepped up to the plate! Way to go man! They need to clean up the field now, though.

I will vote for the candidate who will screw things up the least.

Because I live in the real world.

Dntsycnt · « **Reply #16 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:35:53 AM »

So, and this is an honest question, do you view America as a dying entity that you just want to make comfortable in its final throes?

If we keep electing these people, making concession after concession, it will inevitably destroy America. McCain may slow it down a bit, but he'll still contribute to it, and in electing him we'll show those similar to him that they have the green light.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #17 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:38:40 AM »

Quote from: Dntsycnt on June 26, 2008, 07:35:53 AM

So, and this is an honest question, do you view America as a dying entity that you just want to make comfortable in its final throes?

If we keep electing these people, making concession after concession, it will inevitably destroy America. McCain may slow it down a bit, but he'll still contribute to it, and in electing him we'll show those similar to him that they have the green light.

No, I do not view it that way. I see its brightest days ahead of it. But we need a survivable "ick" to keep working, not a total socialist who will wreck it completely.

I'm sorry, but your approach is extremely naive. You don't remodel the house by bringing in an arsonist.

Your sort keeps thinking there will be a "revolution" if Obama is elected. There will not be. America will just fade into lukewarm euro-weeniness forever. Irrevocably.

Dntsycnt · « **Reply #18 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:44:49 AM »

If it was a question of merely surviving this election, I could go along with your view, and might vote McCain.

However, if we elect McCain, does that not indicate that his type is electable? Won't the next candidate just be another McCain, which people will once more hold their nose for and elect?

You seem to assume that if we just survive this nasty Obama business, the bright and shining Republican President will emerge from the ranks and lead us into the future. But if we keep feeding the snakes, they're just going to breed more snakes.

I realize that I may be very naive. I am young, and continually discover things I was naive about in the past. But I'm striving to see your point, and I'm not quite seeing it as viable.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #19 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:47:37 AM »

No, my point is that we will NOT survive Obama. Not as America.

We'll be something different. A third-world EU partner or something, with all the appropriate loss of free speech rights and cultural rules inherent in such a thing.

And that will be the new America. I do not think you realize the danger yet.

Dntsycnt · « **Reply #20 on:** June 26, 2008, 08:49:20 AM »

My bad, I was unclear. By "surviving this nasty Obama business" I meant, surviving his campaign and getting McCain elected.

seeker_two · « **Reply #21 on:** June 26, 2008, 10:08:12 AM »

One of the candidates is giving away free beer?...... Tongue

Finch · « **Reply #22 on:** June 26, 2008, 10:33:33 AM »

I just don't get it. People say that if we vote for McCain, even if he is just as horrible for this country as Obama, we get more time.

Time for what? Is there some revolution planned that I don't know about? What are we waiting for, what are we buying time for? Because next election, we will be faced with this very situation again, and again we will vote for the lesser of two evils. And slowly but surely, our freedoms will be stripped away by the lesser of the two. Nothing will change. This buying of time by voting for McCain, the only thing you are buying is a different way to watch this country crumble.....

I feel bad for this nation. Its greatest threat comes not from abroad, but from its own citizens.... sad

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2008, 10:37:54 AM »

This is what scares me, really. Not the candidates. But what even participating in this game is doing to our own minds.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #24 on:** June 26, 2008, 10:45:33 AM »

Quote from: Finch on June 26, 2008, 09:33:33 AM

I just don't get it. People say that if we vote for McCain, even if he is just as horrible for this country as Obama, we get more time.

Time for what? Is there some revolution planned that I don't know about? What are we waiting for, what are we buying time for? Because next election, we will be faced with this very situation again, and again we will vote for the lesser of two evils. And slowly but surely, our freedoms will be stripped away buy the lesser of the two. Nothing will change. This buying of time by voting for McCain, the only thing you are buying is a different way to watch this country crumble.....

I feel bad for this nation. Its greatest threat comes not from abroad, but from its own citizens.... sad

And WHAT is your alternative?

Among realistic, viable candidates, now. No third-parties that are completely out of the election.

What the the alternative right now, at this moment. In the real world, before November, in terms of something that can happen.

What is your alternative?

Because I'm getting tired of hearing "Blaahhh, McCain sucks" when you're not offering ANY OTHER SOLUTION.

We know he sucks. We get it. We understand. The other side sucks more.

So what do you want to do, since you keep objecting to McCain?

News:

Author Topic: Apologies to the members of the Political forum (Read 12170 times)

taurusowner

taurusowner