Author Topic: McCain Steps up  (Read 11259 times)

charby

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McCain Steps up
« on: June 26, 2008, 07:05:41 AM »
And serves crow to Obama, Daley and Chicagao

Quote
http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/mccain.handgun.ban.2.757688.html

McCain: Chicago Gun Ban Infringes On Rights
Republican Presidential Candidate Singles Out Chicago In Statement Praising Supreme Court Ruling
 Gun Rights Ruling May Change Chicago Law

ARLINGTON, Va. (CBS) ― U.S. Sen. John McCain said Thursday that the Supreme Court ruling in favor of gun ownership showed that the Chicago handgun ban has "infringed on the constitutional rights of Americans."

The presumptive Republican presidential nominee called the ruling a "landmark victory for Second Amendment freedom in the United States."

 Tell us what you think of the ruling and gun control.

"For the first time in the history of our Republic, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed that the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms was and is an individual right as intended by our Founding Fathers," McCain said in a statement.

He criticized Sen. Barack Obama for not signing a bipartisan amicus brief supporting the ruling later issued by the Supreme Court, and singled out the Chicago ban in describing what the ruling should change.

"Today's ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller makes clear that other municipalities like Chicago that have banned handguns have infringed on the constitutional rights of Americans," McCain said in the statement.

He also targeted a campaign comment by Obama that said residents of struggling small towns "get bitter, they cling to their guns or religion."


"Unlike the elitist view that believes Americans cling to guns out of bitterness, today's ruling recognizes that gun ownership is a fundamental right -- sacred, just as the right to free speech and assembly," McCain said.

Obama has supported gun control in both the Illinois State Senate and the U.S. Senate. He had not issued a statement about the ruling as of 10 a.m. Thursday.

The court's 5-4 ruling strikes down the District of Columbia's 32-year-old ban on handguns as incompatible with gun rights under the Second Amendment. The decision goes further than even the Bush administration wanted, but probably leaves most firearms laws intact.

The Supreme Court ruling does not automatically invalidate the Chicago handgun ban, but opens up the possibility of an court challenge that could get it declared unconstitutional.

The court had not conclusively interpreted the Second Amendment since its ratification in 1791. The amendment reads: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The basic issue for the justices was whether the amendment protects an individual's right to own guns no matter what, or whether that right is somehow tied to service in a state militia.

In Chicago, a ban on the sale and registration of handguns has been in place since 1982. Only police officers, aldermen and a handful of others are exempt from the ban.

While other firearms can be registered, under current law, handguns cannot be registered and are considered illegal. Several suburbs have similar restrictions.

The Supreme Court ruling does not automatically invalidate the Chicago handgun ban, but opens up the possibility of an court challenge that could get it declared unconstitutional.
(© MMVIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)


Kind of changes my mind from voting against Obama to voting for McCain.

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The Annoyed Man

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 07:23:46 AM »
"... for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

Dntsycnt

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 07:27:48 AM »
Quote
Kind of changes my mind from voting against Obama to voting for McCain.

Because of one statement he, a politician made, to get votes?

I guess I see how these guys keep getting elected.

charby

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 07:43:19 AM »
Quote
Kind of changes my mind from voting against Obama to voting for McCain.

Because of one statement he, a politician made, to get votes?

I guess I see how these guys keep getting elected.

I wrote "kind of changes" not "Changed my mind"

If humorous twitchy nitwits stopped trying to run a third party campaign maybe I'd vote that way in a national election.

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seeker_two

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2008, 08:08:34 AM »
After this statement.....I may vote for him......

...but November's a long way away....and he's still gotta make it through the convention....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

trapperready

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2008, 08:10:42 AM »
From Obama's website today:

Quote
I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms, but I also identify with the need for crime-ravaged communities to save their children from the violence that plagues our streets through common-sense, effective safety measures. The Supreme Court has now endorsed that view, and while it ruled that the D.C. gun ban went too far, Justice Scalia himself acknowledged that this right is not absolute and subject to reasonable regulations enacted by local communities to keep their streets safe.  Todays ruling, the first clear statement on this issue in 127 years, will provide much-needed guidance to local jurisdictions across the country.

As President, I will uphold the constitutional rights of law-abiding gun-owners, hunters, and sportsmen. I know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact common-sense laws, like closing the gun show loophole and improving our background check system, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals. Today's decision reinforces that if we act responsibly, we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.

So, his interpretation on the ruling is that it will give guidance to local jurisdictions about how to craft "reasonable regulations"?

I'll take McCain in this case and not feel the least bit bad about it.


Standing Wolf

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2008, 09:12:24 AM »
How very courageous of McCain to wait until the Supreme Court says so!

He's been an anti-Second Amendment bigot for years.
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charby

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2008, 09:16:28 AM »
How very courageous of McCain to wait until the Supreme Court says so!

He's been an anti-Second Amendment bigot for years.

How so?
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2008, 09:19:44 AM »
In football, I believe this is called a late-hit.

Balog

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2008, 09:34:44 AM »
How very courageous of McCain to wait until the Supreme Court says so!

He's been an anti-Second Amendment bigot for years.

How so?

Gun. Show. Loophole.
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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

charby

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2008, 09:50:54 AM »
How very courageous of McCain to wait until the Supreme Court says so!

He's been an anti-Second Amendment bigot for years.

How so?

Gun. Show. Loophole.

valid source please
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Balog

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2008, 09:54:53 AM »
http://www.kpho.com/news/1099137/detail.html

McCain: Close Gun Show Loophole

Helen Thomas, Hearst Newspapers

POSTED: 6:13 p.m. EST November 30, 2001


WASHINGTON -- Gun control advocates have a powerful new voice in the Senate who is seeking to close a loophole that allows weapons to be sold at gun shows without background checks.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who cited cases in which suspected terrorists were caught with weapons bought at U.S. gun shows, says he will try to "force Senate consideration" early next year of the measure. Former President Bill Clinton tried but failed to curb such sales. Hats off to the senator if he succeeds.

A spokesman said McCain hopes to attach an amendment to appropriate legislation, possibly a homeland security bill, in January. The amendment would require background checks taking up to three days for would-be buyers from private, unlicensed dealers at gun shows. After three years following enactment of the law, most checks on such purchasers would have to be completed in 24 hours.

"Foreign terrorists have exploited a loophole to buy weapons at gun shows," McCain said. "Clearly, alleged members of terrorist organizations have been able to secure guns and weapons using the gun-show loophole."

The senator had introduced a similar bill in May, but he said he was submitting a new version now because the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks lent "some urgency to tightening the law."

The National Rifle Association is bristling over the revival of a campaign for some gun control. James Jay Baker, the NRA's chief lobbyist, accused McCain of trying "to bootstrap on the Sept. 11 tragedy."

Baker also took aim at another group called Americans for Gun Safety, which seeks to close gun show loopholes, claiming it "shamelessly manipulates" the terrorist "acts of war to jump-start its stalled political agenda."

"This is political opportunism at its calculated worst, and it cannot be allowed to spread unchallenged," Baker fumed.

He called the focus on gun shows an "outrageous attack on Americans' Second Amendment rights." He said he was particularly incensed because since Sept. 11 many Americans have been "purchasing their first firearms and learning to use them safely and responsibly for self protection."

McCain has never been a strong gun control advocate. In fact, he voted against the 1993 gun control law, which requires a background check for all prospective purchasers of guns sold by licensed dealers.

But his spokesman said McCain believes that "the rights of gun owners come with responsibilities."

The Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy group here, reports that a document posted on a Web site used by an al-Qaida fugitive tells prospective Muslim holy warriors they "should use lax firearms laws in the United States to get sniper and military assault rifle training."

The center quotes the document as telling trainees that in some countries, especially the United States, firearms training is available to the public and that "it is perfectly legal" to obtain AK-47 assault rifles.

The document also advises that "useful courses to learn are sniping, general shooting and other rifle courses," and it specifically discourages handgun training "until rifle training is mastered."

Tom Diaz, vice president of the center, said, "This document and the link to the cold-blooded assassins who carried out the suicide attacks" on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon "show conclusively that our lax gun laws and our tolerance of the most extreme one-stop shopping mall" -- the gun show -- are helpful to would-be terrorists.

Diaz, a former CIA agent, worries that terrorists could obtain the 50-caliber sniper rifles that can penetrate armor plate, down helicopters and, when loaded with armor-piercing incendiary ammunition, blow up fuel and chemical storage tanks.

He insists that such weapons can be purchased more easily than handguns in the United States. Furthermore, he says, 25 50-caliber sniper rifles weapons were purchased in this country by the al-Qaida terrorist network of Osama bin Laden in the 1980s. "This chilling new information presents the NRA and its gun industry cohorts with a stark choice: Support America or support terror," Diaz argues.

Supporters of closing the gun show loophole are expected to cite evidence that a man named Ali Boumelhem, linked to the anti-Israel Hezbollah and convicted in Michigan on Sept. 10 of conspiring to smuggle guns to Lebanon, was seen buying weapons at three U.S. gun shows.

Even without the threat of weapons falling into the hands of terrorists, this nation faces a scary, general proliferation of handguns and its appalling consequences.

Earlier this week, President Bush, who does not support gun control legislation, told a gathering of U.S. attorneys that they have a "clear-cut challenge to fight gun violence." He said more teenagers die from gun-shot wounds than from any other causes.

Tragically, the FBI reports, in the five-year period from 1995 to 1999, 32.1 percent of child handgun homicide victims were murdered by another child. In that period, two children a day, on average, were killed with handguns. Black children suffered a far higher rate -- seven times higher than white children.

Let's hope members of Congress who usually are allergic to any form of gun control will see the sanity of supporting background checks on all prospective buyers at gun shows.

Copyright 2001 by Hearst Newspapers. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

charby

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2008, 09:59:51 AM »
Has he come out and changed his stance on it?

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Balog

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2008, 10:00:59 AM »
Not so far as I know. I think he phrases it differently now. Same s***, different name.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2008, 10:01:49 AM »
Besides, "sudden moral changes" made before an election are not the most reliable indicator of a policritters true feelings.....
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

charby

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2008, 10:15:09 AM »
My own opinion is that he supported at the time because it was promptly after 9/11, a bunch of school shootings and other violent things in mass media. People from all sides were looking in haste to soften any attacks here.

I also think he has been educated about the decisions that he made in those days and has become more receptive to the freedoms that the 2nd amendment guarantees.

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Finch

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2008, 10:35:14 AM »
"... for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

EXACTLY!

Where was his staunch support for this prior? What a chump...
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MicroBalrog

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2008, 11:03:43 AM »

NRA Blasts John McCain

    Wes Vernon
    Saturday-Sunday, May 19-20, 2001

Editor's note: NewsMax.com correspondent Wes Vernon is in Kansas City this weekend with CEO and Editor Christopher Ruddy to cover the National Rifle Association's annual convention. This article will be updated throughout the weekend.

Sunday, 11:30 a.m. CDT

Interior Secretary Gale Norton says White House will fight crime with NRA's help - and predicts a second term for President Bush.

Saturday, 6:30 p.m. CDT

Rep. Bob Barr says Congress will defeat anti-gun bills.

Saturday, 6 p.m. CDT

Internationalist private groups funded by billionaires threaten your freedoms.

Saturday, 12:28 CDT

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Speaking to thousands of NRA members who packed the main convention center hall, CEO and Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre blasted Sen. John McCain.

The NRA chief harshly criticized McCain's efforts on behalf of the McCain-Feingold bill that would reform campaign financing.

LaPierre asked, "Is it possible that John McCain thinks you have too much freedom?"

LaPierre said McCain's new law would effectively shut the NRA out of the political system by not allowing independent groups from buying TV or radio ads 60 days before a general election.

Had this been true in the last election, LaPierre said, the outcome would have likely been different and Gore would have won.

Praising McCain's war heroism, and the fact for decades he was an ardent supporter of the NRA, LaPierre expressed exasperation. "But I gotta tell you, I don't know what's happening to John McCain."

He took the senator to task for appearing in public service commercials for a radical anti-gun group called Americans for Gun Safety.

McCain aroused even more anger from gun rights supporters earlier this week when he co-sponsored legislation with Sen. Joe Lieberman that would ban private gun sales at gun shows unless a background check was completed.

LaPierre wondered if McCain was becoming a point man for both an anti-First and Second amendment effort.

Clearly the campaign finance proposals have the NRA worried.

LaPierre said to cheers that if the law is enacted, the NRA might just put to sail a boat called the "Good Ship NRA" and broadcast its views from international waters.

He said the new law would benefit the politicians and major media conglomerates - and not independent voters or groups like the NRA.

LaPierre said: "Just think - eight weeks before a general election, the 4.3 million members of the NRA must shut up and step aside ... while Rather, and Couric and Gumbel and Rosie and Jennings and Hillary and Schumer hold court and won the airwaves without challenge."

Heston Won't Retire - YET

NRA President Charlton Heston took to the microphone and quickly announced that he had planned to make a farewell address after three years as the organization's president.

"But I've been asked, and I've agreed, to stand for a fourth term."

The audience cheered in support.

Friday, 7:30 p.m. CDT

NewsMax.com has learned that the NRA plans a major announcement at the convention at 10 a.m. Saturday CDT. Stay tuned to NewsMax.com for full coverage.

NRA Takes Credit for Electing Bush

Friday, 5 p.m. CDT

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - More than 40,000 members and supporters of the National Rifle Association have converged this weekend for their annual meeting, which began today as a political victory party.

This is no run-of-the-mill convention but a giant celebration reflecting the organization's role in the 2000 presidential and congressional elections.

Reflecting this celebration, members of the press have been given a "reporter's notebook" - a small spiral-bound writing pad with a picture of NRA President Charlton Heston on the cover. The organization apparently takes some glee in offering reporters introductory pages to the notebook.

One page is titled "How we won the fight they picked." It quotes a "60 Minutes" interview verbatim with Bill Clinton and Dan Rather. In it Clinton "blamed" the NRA for Al Gore's loss to President Bush and the Democrats' failure to take over Congress. Clinton told Rather about the NRA that "you've got to give it to them. They've done a good job. They probably had to do with more than anyone else the fact we didn't win the House this time. And they hurt Al Gore."

Another page from the NRA reporter's notebook reprints an article from USA Today of December 2000. USA Today said the NRA played a critical role in Gore's loss of Arkansas, Tennessee and West Virginia, "any of which could have delivered him the presidency."

Today at the opening ceremony, more than 10,000 NRA members jammed the city's convention center, and the meeting took on shades of a real celebration.

The crowd leaped to its feet and thundered a roar that almost brought the roof down as NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said: "We have a lot to celebrate. Gore is gone. Clinton is gone."

The celebration began with an appearance by Heston, the superstar president of the NRA, who also received a standing ovation. He then handed the show off to a string of entertgainers including Louise Mandrell, who said, "It's good to win, isn't it?" She did mention that she loved shooting sports, but the political meaning of her comment was not lost on her audience.

Among the people interviewed by NewsMax.com was Donna Stravers of rural Iowa, who talked about how she and her husband had played a role in helping to elect Rep. Leonard Boswell.

Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics:

Al Gore

George W. Bush

Guns/Gun Control

Presidential Race 2000

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agricola

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 11:42:42 AM »
As a sort of aside, how has the NRA's inital opposition of Heller been remembered now that the case is won? 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2008, 11:56:15 AM »
As a sort of aside, how has the NRA's inital opposition of Heller been remembered now that the case is won? 

It's in the memory hole already.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2008, 12:21:15 PM »
Some people, especially MB, keep hinting around about the NRA vis-a-vis Heller.  Well, some of us haven't followed the issue that closely.  So feel free to post some links, or start a thread. 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2008, 12:54:03 PM »
Some people, especially MB, keep hinting around about the NRA vis-a-vis Heller.  Well, some of us haven't followed the issue that closely.  So feel free to post some links, or start a thread. 

I'm not hinting at anything. The NRA were not the people who started the lawsuit, two Cato scholars were.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#Background

"This case featured involvement by groups for and against expanded gun rights. The National Rifle Association (NRA) was initially not supportive of the case because it feared it might not be successful. The NRA later reconciled with the plaintiffs."
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Az-at-hoth

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2008, 02:43:17 PM »
About McCain being anti-gun, it looks like all he wanted to stop was buying a gun without a background check. That doesn't seem so bad now, does it?
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old school

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2008, 02:59:40 PM »
Besides, "sudden moral changes" made before an election are not the most reliable indicator of a policritters true feelings.....

I hope this is true. If that is the case. Mc Cain might be a descent choice.
We now know who the real man is.

K Frame

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Re: McCain Steps up
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2008, 04:44:57 PM »
About McCain being anti-gun, it looks like all he wanted to stop was buying a gun without a background check. That doesn't seem so bad now, does it?

Most measures, the ones we're told will make us safer, rarely seem all that bad when they're proposed. It's when they're enacted that the situation changes for the worse.
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