Author Topic: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments  (Read 6485 times)

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« on: August 24, 2009, 10:30:09 AM »
As a SS recipient I do not believe them when they say the SS payments won't go down.  After all, they gave us the SS law and they ca take it away, or reduce it.   How else are they going to pay for the national debt.

Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
Aug 23 09:51 PM US/Eastern
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER

WASHINGTON (AP) - Millions of older people face shrinking Social Security checks next year, the first time in a generation that payments would not rise. The trustees who oversee Social Security are projecting there won't be a cost of living adjustment (COLA) for the next two years. That hasn't happened since automatic increases were adopted in 1975.

By law, Social Security benefits cannot go down. Nevertheless, monthly payments would drop for millions of people in the Medicare prescription drug program because the premiums, which often are deducted from Social Security payments, are scheduled to go up slightly.

"I will promise you, they count on that COLA," said Barbara Kennelly, a former Democratic congresswoman from Connecticut who now heads the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare. "To some people, it might not be a big deal. But to seniors, especially with their health care costs, it is a big deal."

Cost of living adjustments are pegged to inflation, which has been negative this year, largely because energy prices are below 2008 levels.

Advocates say older people still face higher prices because they spend a disproportionate amount of their income on health care, where costs rise faster than inflation. Many also have suffered from declining home values and shrinking stock portfolios just as they are relying on those assets for income.

"For many elderly, they don't feel that inflation is low because their expenses are still going up," said David Certner, legislative policy director for AARP. "Anyone who has savings and investments has seen some serious losses."

About 50 million retired and disabled Americans receive Social Security benefits. The average monthly benefit for retirees is $1,153 this year. All beneficiaries received a 5.8 percent increase in January, the largest since 1982.

More than 32 million people are in the Medicare prescription drug program. Average monthly premiums are set to go from $28 this year to $30 next year, though they vary by plan. About 6 million people in the program have premiums deducted from their monthly Social Security payments, according to the Social Security Administration.

Millions of people with Medicare Part B coverage for doctors' visits also have their premiums deducted from Social Security payments. Part B premiums are expected to rise as well. But under the law, the increase cannot be larger than the increase in Social Security benefits for most recipients.

There is no such hold-harmless provision for drug premiums.

Kennelly's group wants Congress to increase Social Security benefits next year, even though the formula doesn't call for it. She would like to see either a 1 percent increase in monthly payments or a one-time payment of $150.

The cost of a one-time payment, a little less than $8 billion, could be covered by increasing the amount of income subjected to Social Security taxes, Kennelly said. Workers only pay Social Security taxes on the first $106,800 of income, a limit that rises each year with the average national wage.

But the limit only increases if monthly benefits increase.

Critics argue that Social Security recipients shouldn't get an increase when inflation is negative. They note that recipients got a big increase in January—after energy prices had started to fall. They also note that Social Security recipients received one-time $250 payments in the spring as part of the government's economic stimulus package.

Consumer prices are down from 2008 levels, giving Social Security recipients more purchasing power, even if their benefits stay the same, said Andrew G. Biggs, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a Washington think tank.

"Seniors may perceive that they are being hurt because there is no COLA, but they are in fact not getting hurt," Biggs said. "Congress has to be able to tell people they are not getting everything they want."

Social Security is also facing long-term financial problems. The retirement program is projected to start paying out more money than it receives in 2016. Without changes, the retirement fund will be depleted in 2037, according to the Social Security trustees' annual report this year.

President Barack Obama has said he would like tackle Social Security next year, after Congress finishes work on health care, climate change and new financial regulations.

Lawmakers are preoccupied by health care, making it difficult to address other tough issues. Advocates for older people hope their efforts will get a boost in October, when the Social Security Administration officially announces that there will not be an increase in benefits next year.

"I think a lot of seniors do not know what's coming down the pike, and I believe that when they hear that, they're going to be upset," said Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont who is working on a proposal for one-time payments for Social Security recipients.

"It is my view that seniors are going to need help this year, and it would not be acceptable for Congress to simply turn its back," he said.

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 11:24:16 AM »
How to reduce the payments?  Like this=>

http://www.amazon.com/Boomsday-Christopher-Buckley/dp/0446579815#reader

 =D

What was the suicide drug in Child of Man?  I anticipate something similar soon.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,977
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 11:28:35 AM »
Quote
"I think a lot of seniors do not know what's coming down the pike, and I believe that when they hear that, they're going to be upset," said Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont who is working on a proposal for one-time payments for Social Security recipients.

"It is my view that seniors are going to need help this year, and it would not be acceptable for Congress to simply turn its back," he said.

Jerk. =(

Hey, let's make a  one-time payment to lefties, too.  After all, it's harder to shop for left handed goods than right handed.  We have to drive all over to different stores and check stock for whatever we're looking for:  special computer mice, baseball gloves, scissors... We need extra help in these difficult times!

And... single 31 year old males:  We spend a lot of money going out and socializing so we can find single females that are pleasing to us.  Keeping that portion of the economy going takes regular cash infusions.  Economic stimulus for single 31 year old males, please!

What about truck owners?  Keeping those trucks on the road, and tricked out with winches, brush guards, tires, custom differentials and such is HARD!  Economic stimulus for truck owners!

Sigh.

How about an emergency economic stimulus payment to the nation's creditors instead?  Argh. :mad:
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 11:34:45 AM »
Step one might be to stop pretending that the Government's CPI numbers are anything but a happy meal. 
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,125
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 12:06:07 PM »
Good thing for me I've always looked at Social Security as a govt run giant slot machine. I put coins in (with gun held to my head) and maybe I get a payout, maybe I don't. Either way, to me it's just like gambling money -- I don't expect to win anything, thus I work and save and have personal investments for my retirement "payout".

If there is SS money when I retire, I will definitely draw it. They took my money from me against my will -- I'm going to get at least some of it back.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Kingcreek

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,525
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 12:13:37 PM »
my long range plan is to live to age 127 so I can break even with what I will pay in.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

coppertales

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 947
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 01:14:25 PM »
The president has to pay for his health plan somehow.  Just wait until he dips into the Medicare piggy bank and the retirees feel it......chris3

buzz_knox

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 02:05:08 PM »
Maybe people will finally discover that notwithstanding the term "entitlement," you have absolutely no right to ever see a penny of what you put into SS.

It's the biggest Ponzi scheme in the world.

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,659
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2009, 03:44:34 PM »
No COLA, because inflation is flat, or negative, with costs of goods and services declining . . . but Medicare premiums, which are based on the cost of goods and services, are going up.

Does NO ONE in government see the contradiction here?

my long range plan is to live to age 127 so I can break even with what I will pay in.
Maybe you didn't hear about retirement age being increased 117?

Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

grey54956

  • New Member
  • Posts: 80
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2009, 10:04:45 PM »
Quote
If there is SS money when I retire, I will definitely draw it. They took my money from me against my will -- I'm going to get at least some of it back.

And there lies the main hurdle to getting rid of Social Security or any other entitlement program.  Everyone wants these problems solved, i.e. programs stopped, but only after they get their benefits.  It's like they want Ponzi schemes stopped, but only after they get their money back, and someone else gets stuck with the bill.

The only way for us to get rid of entitlement culture is to draw a firm line in the sand.  We'll need to either kill the programs outright with the full knowledge that we will never see a penny, or phase the things out.  Axing the big entitlement programs is a loss prevention measure.  You will never see all the money you paid into it, so write off what you've lost so far and just walk away.
"There are no carefully crafted arguments here, just a sausage-chain of emotional crotch-grabs." - Longeyes

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye and see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." -- Frank Herbert, Dune

Monkeyleg

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,589
  • Tattaglia is a pimp.
    • http://www.gunshopfinder.com
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2009, 10:42:17 PM »
Quote
You will never see all the money you paid into it, so write off what you've lost so far and just walk away.

Nope. I've been paying for 42 years. I should at least get a highway or something else I can charge money to use.

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2009, 10:44:54 PM »
Good thing for me I've always looked at Social Security as a govt run giant slot machine. I put coins in (with gun held to my head) and maybe I get a payout, maybe I don't. Either way, to me it's just like gambling money -- I don't expect to win anything, thus I work and save and have personal investments for my retirement "payout".

If there is SS money when I retire, I will definitely draw it. They took my money from me against my will -- I'm going to get at least some of it back.

I have the same plan.  I see SS as either being broke or paying pennies on the dollar.  That and no sane person should ever rely an entitlement program to cover their retirement.

I'd gladly opt out, with no funds returned, of SS.  The govt isn't going to give my money back anyways, and I'd happily consider it a bribe to regain 14% of my income.  Unfortunately, old people are the most cohesive voting block.  They will vote to keep that gun firmly pressed against your head, as long as they keep their check.  Folks don't want to think of long term gains.  They tend to want money in their hands this second, and they don't care who it hurts as long as it isn't them.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2009, 11:23:26 PM »
And there lies the main hurdle to getting rid of Social Security or any other entitlement program.  Everyone wants these problems solved, i.e. programs stopped, but only after they get their benefits.  It's like they want Ponzi schemes stopped, but only after they get their money back, and someone else gets stuck with the bill.

The only way for us to get rid of entitlement culture is to draw a firm line in the sand.  We'll need to either kill the programs outright with the full knowledge that we will never see a penny, or phase the things out.  Axing the big entitlement programs is a loss prevention measure.  You will never see all the money you paid into it, so write off what you've lost so far and just walk away.
It'd be a simple matter to let people opt out.  Sign a form, and you forever forfeit any SS benefits you might have gotten, but at the same time you're no longer obligated to pay into the system, either.  The existing funds in SS (ha! there are no existing funds in SS) remain in the system and continue paying out to people who haven't opted out.

Eventually enough people would see the wisdom of not participating that the entire program would sort of wither away for lack of interest.

The problem is that SS requires an ever growing number of people paying into the system to support the people drawing funds out.  Allowing young folks to opt out would break the system.  It would necessitate using direct taxation to pay for the remaining dependents.  But since we're going to need to do that anyway, we might as well allow people to opt out and bring the mess to an orderly close.

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 08:50:06 AM »
It'd be a simple matter to let people opt out.  Sign a form, and you forever forfeit any SS benefits you might have gotten, but at the same time you're no longer obligated to pay into the system, either.  The existing funds in SS (ha! there are no existing funds in SS) remain in the system and continue paying out to people who haven't opted out.

Eventually enough people would see the wisdom of not participating that the entire program would sort of wither away for lack of interest.

The problem is that SS requires an ever growing number of people paying into the system to support the people drawing funds out.  Allowing young folks to opt out would break the system.  It would necessitate using direct taxation to pay for the remaining dependents.  But since we're going to need to do that anyway, we might as well allow people to opt out and bring the mess to an orderly close.

My thoughts is allow people to opt out, but don't get to stop paying into the system until, say 45 or 50. After that, all money they save in a retirement account is tax free. They should end up with more than social security would ever pay them AND we'd hopefully be able to end social security.

As fewer people are left on social security, we can drop the age of payment until people are allowed never to pay into social security.

Of course, this would mean we'd have to have 20-40 years of transition and we'd have to have the government agree for the entirety of that time to continue with the plan...
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

buzz_knox

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 09:05:14 AM »
The problem is that SS requires an ever growing number of people paying into the system to support the people drawing funds out.  Allowing young folks to opt out would break the system.  It would necessitate using direct taxation to pay for the remaining dependents.  But since we're going to need to do that anyway, we might as well allow people to opt out and bring the mess to an orderly close.

The first sentence is the very definition of a Ponzi scheme.  Try to do what the feds are doing, and you'll be Madoff's cell mate.

SS was designed to do one thing:  cover the very short period between the time people could no longer work and the time they died.  Very brief retirement periods were fundamental to the system operating.  It was never designed to deal with a situation where people would live for several years after retirement.  Add in the fact that SS proceeds are now used to provide funds for things never envisioned in the original plan, and the system becomes obviously and obscenely unworkable.


Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2009, 09:28:47 AM »
Quote
SS was designed to do one thing:  cover the very short period between the time people could no longer work and the time they died.
When SS was established the life expectency was around 60, and SS didn't kick in until 65.  They never expected to have to pay out for very many.

Monkeyleg

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,589
  • Tattaglia is a pimp.
    • http://www.gunshopfinder.com
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2009, 09:57:32 AM »
My father died last year at 91, and had been collecting since age 65. I often got him riled up by telling him that he had been paid every dime he'd "contributed" by the time he was 67. But he started paying when SS was established. He was paying in dimes a month. I estimate that he received about a quarter of a million.

When I told him that the system was broke, he'd insist it wasn't, and that he'd gotten a 500% return on his "investment." He was a brilliant man, but was in denial.

I've wanted to opt out of the system for decades. I would have forsaken whatever I'd put into the system just to get out. Now that I'm seven years away from the full retirement age, I can't just ignore all the money that I've "contributed." It's just not possible.

There's a showdown looming between those my age and those in their forties or younger. It won't be pretty.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2009, 10:59:30 AM »
There's a showdown looming between those my age and those in their forties or younger. It won't be pretty.


Ayup. And the old folks vote more than the young un's, so I'll spend the rest of my life flushing money away to pay for boomer's retirement. That system needs to die, and soon.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Sindawe

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,938
  • Vashneesht
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2009, 11:06:23 AM »
Quote
There's a showdown looming between those my age and those in their forties or younger. It won't be pretty.

Maybe us young'uns should start honoring our elders the way Heinlein's Martians do.  =D

I've long wanted out of the Ponzi scheme as well, but of course once you're in you can't get out.  :mad:

At this point, I don't care if I ever get any of the funds back, just stop stealing it from my paycheck and let ME worry about my support when I'm too old to work (like have been doing from when I started working 30 years ago).

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2009, 12:13:56 PM »

There's a showdown looming between those my age and those in their forties or younger. It won't be pretty.

Indeed.  It'll be interesting to see who wins this one.  There will be more old folks than young, and more of the old folks are going to vote.  But the game is inherently stacked against them.  They can get the politicians to promise anything, yet it simply won't be possible for the politicians to deliver on their promises.

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,659
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2009, 12:24:22 PM »
My father died last year at 91, and had been collecting since age 65. I often got him riled up by telling him that he had been paid every dime he'd "contributed" by the time he was 67.
Some years back, Fortune magazine had a column called Keeping Up which addressed social security benefits.

They assumed a person retiring that year at age 65 had been paying in the maximum amount since they'd turned 21, matched by their employer. They figured out how much of a lump sum they'd have had if the money had been invested at a 3% real rate of return; I don't remember the figure, but it was enough at the time to purchase a lifetime annuity that was about 75% higher than the maximum SS benefit.

Take a look at the numbers some time . . . they keep increasing the portion of your income that's taxable by SS every year, but your projected benefits do NOT increase in proportion; in fact, above a certain (rather low) threshold, you're projected to get very little marginal value for your added burden.

One problem with SS is that WAY too many people besides retirees are getting benefits . . . when my Dad retired and went down to apply for benefits (had to apply in person back then) he said AT LEAST two thirds to three quarters of the other people applying were obviously nowhere near retirement . . . and a shocking portion didn't speak any English.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2009, 03:18:52 PM »
And me to the list of people willing to give up the money I've put in just so long as I'm no longer taxed.  Social inSecurity is the biggest government scam of all time.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2009, 07:18:02 PM »
Quote
There will be more old folks than young, and more of the old folks are going to vote.

Isn't the ratio of retirees to payees some place near 3 retirees to 1 payee?


longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2009, 09:19:22 PM »
Quote
One problem with SS is that WAY too many people besides retirees are getting benefits . . . when my Dad retired and went down to apply for benefits (had to apply in person back then) he said AT LEAST two thirds to three quarters of the other people applying were obviously nowhere near retirement . . . and a shocking portion didn't speak any English.

You got that right.  SS has morphed from a workers' insurance program to a grab-bag for various occult State Dept. agendas.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2009, 11:05:44 PM »
Quote
You got that right.  SS has morphed from a workers' insurance program to a grab-bag for various occult State Dept. agendas.
The Congress and Senators just used it to by votes.