Author Topic: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional  (Read 4205 times)

MicroBalrog

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Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« on: December 20, 2008, 03:45:27 PM »
Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional

By WILLIAM BENDER
Philadelphia Daily News

benderw@phillynews.com 215-854-5255
Delaware County was hit with a federal lawsuit yesterday claiming that its policy of refusing to return confiscated firearms unless the owners obtain a court order is unconstitutional.

The civil-rights suit was filed by C. Scott Shields, a gun-rights attorney and small-town political firebrand who has been the National Rifle Association's point man in fighting Philadelphia's attempt to write its own gun laws.

The plaintiff, Thomas DeOrio, 21, of Glen Mills, argues that the county government, judges and Sheriff's Department illegally retain confiscated guns - even if a crime hasn't been committed - when the owner is entitled to retrieve them.

In DeOrio's case, Brookhaven police seized his collection of handguns and rifles in October and turned them over to the sheriff when his girlfriend filed for a temporary protection-from-abuse order. Shields said she perceived something he had said to be threatening. Three days later, after a court hearing, a judge dismissed the order, records show.

But DeOrio soon learned that getting his guns back wouldn't be as easy.

Although the protection-from-abuse order had been thrown out, Shields said the sheriff's office refused to return the firearms unless DeOrio filed a "legal action."

"Hence, we have a civil-rights suit," said Shields, the mayor of Rutledge Borough.

Shields said the county's policy lacks a provision for the return of firearms when a protection-from-abuse order expires or is dismissed, and instead gives "unfettered discretion" to judges.

"This has been going on for years in Delaware County," he said. "Some of these people believe that firearms are inherently dangerous and you should not have them."

County Solicitor John P. McBlain said he would review the policy to "make sure we're doing the right thing," but otherwise declined to comment because the matter is in litigation.

The case mirrors a lawsuit Shields filed last year against the Upper Darby Police Department when it blocked a woman from retrieving her late father's guns. She was his sole beneficiary.

A federal judge ruled in August that a portion of the department's policy is unconstitutional because it gives police Superintendent Michael Chitwood Sr. the final say, in some instances, in determining if a person may retrieve confiscated guns.

Robert DiDomenicis, an attorney for Upper Darby, said the township likely would resolve that case without a trial by modifying its policy.

The township also agreed to give the firearms to the woman who filed the suit.

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Standing Wolf

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2008, 04:11:40 PM »
Quote
The civil-rights suit was filed by C. Scott Shields, a gun-rights attorney and small-town political firebrand who has been the National Rifle Association's point man in fighting Philadelphia's attempt to write its own gun laws.

Another leftist extremist self-styled "journalist" drips snot into a purported "article."
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2008, 06:54:54 PM »
this guy is at least a warrior hero might be a stretch  but when he moved from typing about it to doing something about it he gained cred
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RevDisk

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2008, 02:05:32 AM »
The civil-rights suit was filed by C. Scott Shields, a gun-rights attorney and small-town political firebrand who has been the National Rifle Association's point man in fighting Philadelphia's attempt to write its own gun laws.

Philly is not allowed to right its own guns laws.  It is specifcally forbidden from doing so by our state Constitution, as explained in the UFA.  No local entities, including Philly, can pass any gun law whatsoever.  Nothing, zip, nodda.

"Civil rights activist Shields, an attorney and selfless defender of freedom, has been a point man in fighting illegal actions conducted by the city of Philadelphia. This is only the latest attempt at violating state and federal laws, with Philadelphia having a long history of such nefarious attempts at chilling restrictions of human rights and civil liberties of its citizens." 

There, much more accurate.
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seeker_two

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2008, 07:52:16 AM »
Where is the NRA on this one?  ???
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KD5NRH

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2008, 12:04:21 PM »
Where is the NRA on this one?  ???

As soon as it leaks that the judge is writing a favorable verdict, they'll jump in just in time to claim credit.


Silver Bullet

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2008, 02:07:08 PM »
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Where is the NRA on this one?

Are you a member of the NRA ?  If not, you don’t get a say in what battles we fight. 

Quote
As soon as it leaks that the judge is writing a favorable verdict, they'll jump in just in time to claim credit.

You’re lying.  Thanks for the smear.   :mad:


Silver Bullet

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2008, 02:36:11 PM »
The NRA can’t be everywhere at once, nor can it fight everybody’s battles for them.

What keeps the NRA from being more effective is the numbers.  Four million members do the grunt work and pay the dues, while seventy-six million other gun owners sit on the sidelines, probably on a couch eating potato chips.

What’s worse, some of the 76,000,000 sit around and criticize the 4,000,000 for not getting things done faster. 


MicroBalrog

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2008, 02:40:18 PM »
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What’s worse, some of the 76,000,000 sit around and criticize the 4,000,000 for not getting things done faster. 

Because working through the NRA is the only way to get stuff done. I will immediately inform Richard Heller about this.
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roo_ster

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2008, 03:48:10 PM »
Because working through the NRA is the only way to get stuff done. I will immediately inform Richard Heller about this.

Well, that's gonna leave a mark.

TSRA member, BTW.
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Silver Bullet

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2008, 04:35:48 PM »
Because working through the NRA is the only way to get stuff done. I will immediately inform Richard Heller about this.

Nobody is claiming that being a member of the NRA is the only way to advance RKBA.  We all owe a huge debt to Mr. Heller and his attorneys.

My gripe is with those among the 75,999,999 who do nothing to advance RKBA, but still criticize the NRA (and its members) for not doing everything.

I realize there are many non-NRA members who do plenty.  I have a lot of respect for the SAF and some of the state organizations; for example, the ones in Texas and Virginia. 

And, everyone who takes a non-shooter shooting is helping a lot to combat the liberalMedia lies.  I think that accomplishes more than a year's dues to a gun organization.

DJJ

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2008, 04:36:40 PM »
Seems to me the NRA's problem is they never want to get involved with anybody who's up on "weapons charges". But that's kind of the point, isn't it?

Silver Bullet

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2008, 04:55:06 PM »
Quote
Seems to me the NRA's problem is they never want to get involved with anybody who's up on "weapons charges". But that's kind of the point, isn't it?

Geez; it only took me one minute to find an example of how wrong you are:

http://www.theppsc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1836

But, even then:  the NRA does a lot of work trying to prevent new bad gun laws.  I don’t know how you can try and claim that that their primary focus should be defending folks up on “weapons charges”.


DJJ

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2008, 05:08:45 PM »
That was the Texas State Rifle Association. An NRA affiliate, perhaps, but not the NRA. I'm an NRA member, and I don't remember reading about this in the magazine.

Silver Bullet

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2008, 05:18:20 PM »
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Will Harrell, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas, said that even before the current dispute, his group and the N.R.A. had been collaborating on racial profiling issues, particularly on what he called a “Bubba profile” that made certain white men the focus of gun checks by the police.

seeker_two

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2008, 11:59:41 PM »
Are you a member of the NRA ?  If not, you don’t get a say in what battles we fight. 


All I'm asking is....what battles are being fought by the NRA now?....

I'd join if I thought they would put my membership to use....but I think the $35 would be better spent as an outright donation to the ILA or toward other organizations who are actively fighting.....and I really don't need another magazine when I have APS, TFL, and both THR's....

Convince me....
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2008, 12:05:27 AM »
All I'm asking is....what battles are being fought by the NRA now?....

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=16920.0  And besides winning that little legal battle, how much time and money did they spend campaigning against Obama?  Hmmm? 

And why bother with griping about the NRA's magazines?  Last I knew, you could cop a ten-dollar discount by declining the magazine.   ;/
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KD5NRH

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2008, 04:04:13 AM »
And besides winning that little legal battle, how much time and money did they spend campaigning against Obama?  Hmmm?

If they'd spent it campaigning against McCain before the primaries, it might have done some good.


MicroBalrog

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2008, 05:35:39 PM »
Geez; it only took me one minute to find an example of how wrong you are:

http://www.theppsc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1836

But, even then:  the NRA does a lot of work trying to prevent new bad gun laws.  I don’t know how you can try and claim that that their primary focus should be defending folks up on “weapons charges”.



1. That's not a link to them defending someone up on weapons charges. The guy had all charges dropped before they helped him sue to return his gun.

2. Defending guys up on weapons charges is a good way to try and throw out gun laws that you can't throw out via the legislature, like the original Gun Free Schools act and several provisions of the NFA.
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DJJ

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2008, 07:31:29 PM »
I don't know how you can try and claim that that their primary focus should be defending folks up on "weapons charges".

Merely the fact that the Supreme Court has ruled that you have to have been convicted of a crime before you can bring a constitutional challenge. By default, the only guy who can bring a constitutional challenge will be one who has been up on weapons charges.

Silver Bullet

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2008, 01:11:11 PM »
DJJ,

Yikes !  My bad !  It looks like you may be right about the NRA not getting involved helping folks brought up on weapons charges.  I couldn’t find a better example, and the NRA site doesn’t list this as a member benefit.  By the way, is any other pro-gun organization doing that ?

I didn’t get your point at first about using the weapons charge to challenge the law at the Supreme Court level.  My understanding is that the NRA has shied away from that because of the political balance of the court.  You don’t want to take a case to the Supremes just to have them decide against RKBA and thus set a bad precedent for decades to follow.  In fact, I understand that was the reason they originally opposed Heller:  at the time his case originated, Alioto and Roberts were not yet on the Court.

I thought you were just saying the NRA should provide free legal counsel to anyone who had been charged with a gun crime, to the extent of trying to get them not convicted.  I don’t think they have the money to do that (although they might if the other 75,999,999 were paying dues) and it makes more sense to spend the resources on getting laws overturned.  Getting the Court to declare them unconstitutional isn’t the only way to do that.  Legislatures can repeal them.  Or let them sunset!  :)  Resources are also spent in preventing new gun bills from becoming laws.  In some cases, where the voting numbers are stacked against them, the best they can do is get new laws watered down from their original version.


MGshaggy

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2008, 02:05:22 PM »
Quote
By default, the only guy who can bring a constitutional challenge will be one who has been up on weapons charges.

Bullcrap.

As long as there is a live case or controversy meeting the usual requirements for ripeness, not moot, etc. a party can file a declaratory judgement to get into court.  For an example, see Penn Arms & Navegar v. US (challenging the 1994 AWB).

seeker_two

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Re: Lawsuit: Delco gun policy unconstitutional
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2008, 12:01:34 PM »
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=16920.0  And besides winning that little legal battle, how much time and money did they spend campaigning against Obama?  Hmmm? 



If they'd spent it campaigning against McCain before the primaries, it might have done some good.


Indeed.....why not have the NRA come out strong for a pro-RKBA/2A candidate in the primaries and then continue the fight in the general election....then we'd have had a much better choice than Obama and Obama-lite....

And why bother with griping about the NRA's magazines?  Last I knew, you could cop a ten-dollar discount by declining the magazine.   ;/

Not the point...NRA can't get involved in the politics, so it created ILA.  My question is "Why not send the money to ILA than to NRA if NRA can't do what ILA (and other pro-2A/RKBA groups) CAN (and WILL) do?....
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