CA Supreme Court: Cops can search your cell phone on arrest

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/01/03/BA5N1H3G12.DTL&tsp=1

I guess it's time to look into phones with key-locks, that don't have an OEM override code.  And encrypted SD cards.  And so on.

Not that I live a life that routinely has me at cross odds with the po-po.  But still, I disagree with the ruling.

Keep that in mind when traveling with iPads and laptops and such devices.  Evidently the CA supreme court thinks that anything in your custody (car? lockbox in a car? motor home? laptop? sealed mail?) is subject to search/seizure upon arrest.

The digital implications are frustrating.  Things stored on your cell phone can include:
-Cookies or stored credentials for email logins and chat forums. 
-Bank access credentials.
-Digital transmission codes to unlock/lock/start your car.
-Perfectly legal yet potentially embarrassing or blackmail-able information such as nude photos/videos or evidence of trysts.


I think that, once a suspect is in custody, there is no exigency or urgency in a search that justifies a search of a suspect's digital information without a court-issued warrant.  The only exceptions to such a situation might be a kidnapping or hostage situation, where the suspect is liaising with unknown entities and the cell phone or portable computer is a communications link.  That would justify exigency or urgency IMO.

This becomes carte blanche to take a guy who does one completely unrelated thing (perhaps carries a pocket knife with too long of a blade into the state of CA from another State, for example) and then gets arrested... and then tear his life apart and arrest/charge him for purchasing the services of a prostitute at Mustang Ranch in Reno NV, by looking over his credit card receipts.

A means to stack more (unrelated and probably victimless) charges onto the initial charges.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I'm sure those in CA, you know, the citizens with badges, are so upset over this that they won't enforce this.

LOL. Yes, I know I'm dreaming.

[MechAg94]

How does this compare with looking through your wallet and other stuff in your pocket?  I guess with my work supplied dinosaur phone, all they can get is my phone list and contacts.  I understand with today's phones, it goes a ways beyond that.  You would think there would be some limits on that.

[Sindawe]

How does this compare with looking through your wallet and other stuff in your pocket?

Usually one's wallet does not carry the login credentials for your bank and credit accounts,  personal and professional mail items which may be subject to third party NDA or other non-disclosure agreements.

My work supplied phone is my ONLY cell phone, and also has work email on it.  Since I work in a legal system support buisness, disclosure of some email to the incorrect party could be a big issue.

You would think there would be some limits on that.

Limits?  On government power & authority?  What are you, some kind of wig wearing revolutionary?

[French G.]

I think the only defense is a physical back-up of your info at an off-site location that only you know about, carrying sterile mobile devices that you use to connect to a home network, encrypt even your cookie recipes and shopping lists, home computer sitting in a nice cozy bed of thermite, and please toss the cell phone in front of a speeding truck if you get stopped.  But you won't mind if you don't have anything to hide right? 

[Strings]

Hmmm... I wonder how long before someone creates a "brick on demand" app for Android?

[roo_ster]

Hmmm... I wonder how long before someone creates a "brick on demand" app for Android?

Hmmm...

[MechAg94]

Usually one's wallet does not carry the login credentials for your bank and credit accounts,  personal and professional mail items which may be subject to third party NDA or other non-disclosure agreements.

My work supplied phone is my ONLY cell phone, and also has work email on it.  Since I work in a legal system support buisness, disclosure of some email to the incorrect party could be a big issue.

Limits?  On government power & authority?  What are you, some kind of wig wearing revolutionary?

Of course, I meant limits of some sort on the things you mentioned above that.  You aren't going to pull out bank and credit card account information in a 10 minute search.  On the other hand, maybe you shouldn't save passwords and such for those online services on your phone.  That would prevent them from viewing your accounts.  How secure is your phone from hacking compared to your computer?  Email is certainly an issue and, yes, some attorney's email might fall under attorney client privilege.  

As far as incriminating pictures, if you had a photo album in your wallet with naked pictures, do you think the police have no right to see those?  I would say that falls under stuff you shouldn't carry around with you.

[Ben]

Hmmm... I wonder how long before someone creates a "brick on demand" app for Android?

These already exist if you have another phone, or email access, so you can text or email the command to your phone.

[Strings]

I'm willing to bet that anyone in a criminal enterprise has someone available to remotely "brick" their phone, just in case.

Were I in some such enterprise, I know I would...

[Ned Hamford]

Hmmm... I wonder how long before someone creates a "brick on demand" app for Android?

For high end smart devices aimed at big companies, there is brick on command, brick in x circumstances, and my favorite, brick by remote command.

[Azrael256]

As far as incriminating pictures, if you had a photo album in your wallet with naked pictures, do you think the police have no right to see those?  I would say that falls under stuff you shouldn't carry around with you.

That thought occurred to me as well.  I can see requiring a warrant to force you to let them log on to your banking app on the device, since that information is not actually on your person.  That would also be information that you would either have to volunteer (4th amendment waiver right there) or be ordered by a court to do (warrant), so password protect and exercise the right to silence.

But as for the kiddie porn and lists of shipments from Colombia stored on the device, what is the legal distinction between those items and hard copies in a notebook in your pocket?  That goes for sensitive work materials as well.  What if you have a printed copy of the Coke formula in your briefcase and you get popped for robbing a 7-11?  Search incident to arrest is going to find it.  What if the briefcase is locked?  Is it an unreasonable search for the police to pry it open?

[zxcvbob]

This may be naive of me, but why can't you encrypt the whole phone using 128 bit encryption?  (and then have nothing remotely interesting on it when they do eventually crack it, just to piss them off)

[BridgeRunner]

I'm sure Apple is not exactly cutting edge in security here--maybe there's an override code?  But my phone requires a pin to unlock after five minutes of non-use and wipes itself after ten incorrect pin entries.

[MicroBalrog]

We have an interesting issue here.

On one hand, the search incident to arrest power has been completely reasonable in the age of wallets. As in the physical things, which carried paper documents, or limited amounts of stuff. You could get a few grams of weed  in a wallet. Only a limited amount of stuff could be gleaned about your personal life from a wallet. When you get arrested, the police - by simple logic - need to take possession of the stuff in your pockets. You yourself don't want to keep your wallet in a jail cell, as no doubt it'll get stolen from you there in five seconds flat.

Modern computers that fit into your pocket can hold everything you do. It's not even unreasonable to carry backups of all your work and study stuff on your person. So I think there's going to be some reasonable limit on how deep they can go searching that without a warrant. Perhaps the courts will set a standard.

[HankB]

I can see requiring a warrant to force you to let them log on to your banking app on the device, since that information is not actually on your person.

And yet you do have the right to remain silent. And even a warrant gives them the right to search, not to find, and I don't believe they can require you to do their searching for them.

(And if you, under stress, happened to forget the login password . . . how would they prove otherwise?)

I just have a regular dumbphone, so all they'd find are the phone numbers of some friends & family . . . which they'd be able to get anyway by a subpoena of records from the phone company.

[French G.]

So if you're a geek with a soldering iron how much effort does it take to put a really high output capacitor in your device with a Mission Impossible self destruct button? Wire it to smoke the processor and your memory card, literal smoke, melt PCB output? Can it be done?

[AZRedhawk44]

So if you're a geek with a soldering iron how much effort does it take to put a really high output capacitor in your device with a Mission Impossible self destruct button? Wire it to smoke the processor and your memory card, literal smoke, melt PCB output? Can it be done?

I wouldn't trust something home-made to do the job properly to where a good forensics lab can't remount the memory into a new board and access the data.

Add to that they'd probably shoot you for "trying to kill them with a homemade bomb."

[Ned Hamford]

(And if you, under stress, happend to forget the login password . . . how would they prove otherwise?)

The most widely used solution has been tossing you in a cell for contempt of court until you remember.

Rather unfair I think when the courts are doing contemptible things.  Makes it seem more like being jailed for failure to simper appropriately.

[Tallpine]

My company provided laptop is encrypted and requires an encryption logon as well as windows logon.

It would be a violation of company policy and in some instances federal laws for me to allow access to my laptop.

I wonder do they pull your fingernails or waterboard you 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

My company provided laptop is encrypted and requires an encryption logon as well as windows logon.

It would be a violation of company policy and in some instances federal laws for me to allow access to my laptop.

I wonder do they pull your fingernails or waterboard you 

they put your wife in the cell with you and say she doesn't get out till you tell

[Tallpine]

they put your wife in the cell with you and say she doesn't get out till you tell

A vacation in a hotel with room service 

[KD5NRH]

Modern computers that fit into your pocket can hold everything you do. It's not even unreasonable to carry backups of all your work and study stuff on your person. So I think there's going to be some reasonable limit on how deep they can go searching that without a warrant. Perhaps the courts will set a standard.

Heck, one of the first things they'd hit is saved SMS conversations with my attorney.

Then again, I've been known to keep medical records in a clearly marked folder at the top of my bag when I worked for a particularly nosy company.  Somehow, they just never wanted to keep going once they got to that.

[seeker_two]

Hmmm... I wonder how long before someone creates a "brick on demand" app for Android?

Don't forget us Blackberry users...... 

Add to that they'd probably shoot you for "trying to kill them with a homemade bomb."

Well....that would be one way to avoid prosecution..... 

[Angel Eyes]

they put your wife in the cell with you and say she doesn't get out till you tell

Eighth Amendment.