Solid-state computers?

[Gewehr98]

I'm looking at the Compact Flash and SD cards I have for my camera and MP3 player.  They're both 1GB capacity, and I have a distribution of Knoppix Linux that fits (and boots) from a CD-ROM, just a little over half the capacity of the SD cards I buy for $13.00.  Since the capacity of the little Flash cards has gone up and prices have dropped, I'm curious if anybody's put together a solid-state computer that boots and operates from them.  My latest CyberGuys catalog shows Compact Flash cards with 16GB capacity, and SD cards up to 4GB.  I've seen CF IDE adapters that replace hard drives, too:

http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad44midecf.asp

Now, when I bought my last 1GB SD card, it came with a warning that as the card ages, it may lose capacity.  I also understand that Flash cards don't like a lot of repetitive write access, so perhaps reliability is an issue.

So, all you Linux guys, have you played with the concept yet?  I could see a very small, quiet, and energy-efficient solid-state computer running basically anywhere, immune to hard drive crashes. 

[JimMarch]

We know this is coming.  So far we've seen "flash packs" sized like a 2.5" laptop hard disk and with your choice IDE or SATA ports, with 32/64/128gig flash ram designed purely as total replacements for the hard disk.

We're also seeing "hybrids" start to ship - normal hard disks with relatively huge gig-plus flash buffers to reduce spin-ups.  Saving laptop battery charge is the initial driving force here...

[Manedwolf]

I suspect that it's likely that in the next generation of laptops, the operating system will install on the flashdrive, and the applications will go on the larger moving-disc hard drive. That'd allow for much faster startup time.

[Iain]

Puppy linux boots from a USB flash card if you get it set up right. Will fit on a 512mb card, so even a 2gb stick would leave some reasonable amount of room for other stuff.

Don't know anything about reliability of solid state memory, but I've seen a few projects that use it. One was a tiny PC intended for use as a thin client or for operating more complex electronic signs, 133mhz processor and no hard drive. Apparently it will run puppy and use tiny amounts of power. The other is this 'One Laptop Per Child' project, which has no hard drive, all programs run off a central classroom computer and each laptop has a small amount of flash for saving work.

It's an interesting idea.

[Thor]

I doubt there will ever be a Microsoft OS that will operate off of a flash card, unless Bill Gates steals some Linux platform. There's also DSL (Damn Small Linux)

What is Damn Small Linux, a.k.a. DSL?


DSL is a very versatile 50MB mini desktop oriented Linux distribution.

Damn Small is small enough and smart enough to do the following things:

    * Boot from a business card CD as a live linux distribution (LiveCD)
    * Boot from a USB pen drive
    * Boot from within a host operating system (that's right, it can run *inside* Windows)
    * Run very nicely from an IDE Compact Flash drive via a method we call "frugal install"
    * Transform into a Debian OS with a traditional hard drive install
    * Run light enough to power a 486DX with 16MB of Ram
    * Run fully in RAM with as little as 128MB (you will be amazed at how fast your computer can be!)
    * Modularly grow -- DSL is highly extendable without the need to customize

DSL was originally developed as an experiment to see how many usable desktop applications can fit inside a 50MB live CD. It was at first just a personal tool/toy. But over time Damn Small Linux grew into a community project with hundreds of development hours put into refinements including a fully automated remote and local application installation system and a very versatile backup and restore system which may be used with any writable media including a hard drive, a floppy drive, or a USB device.

DSL has a nearly complete desktop, and many command line tools. All applications are chosen with the best balance of functionality, size and speed. Damn Small also has the ability to act as an SSH/FTP/HTTPD server right off of a live CD. In our quest to save space and have a fully functional desktop we've made many GUI administration tools which are fast yet still easy to use. What does DSL have?

XMMS (MP3, CD Music, and MPEG), FTP client, Dillo web browser, Netrik web browser, FireFox, spreadsheet, Sylpheed email, spellcheck (US English), a word-processor (Ted), three editors (Beaver, Vim, and Nano [Pico clone]), graphics editing and viewing (Xpaint, and xzgv), Xpdf (PDF Viewer), emelFM (file manager), Naim (AIM, ICQ, IRC), VNCviwer, Rdesktop, SSH/SCP server and client, DHCP client, PPP, PPPoE (ADSL), a web server, calculator, generic and GhostScript printer support, NFS, Fluxbox and JWM window managers, games, system monitoring apps, a host of command line tools, USB support, and pcmcia support, some wireless support.

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

[charby]

What I have heard is that Mac is working on that, put the OS on a flash drive, the storage to a mechanical drive. Should blazing fast on start up.

aren't palm devices on a solid state drive?

-charby

[Iain]

I've been thinking about this, one of the those VIA Epia based systems, lower power versions have no cpu fan, and I think no power supply fan either. Solid state memory, and then apart from an optical drive, you could have no moving parts.

[Sindawe]

Well, such have been around for awhile now as dedicated devices.  Example: ABEC Bioreactors and CIP systems.  They can be programmed to handle a diversity of cultures or cleaning regimes, monitoring conditions and taking appropriate actions at customer determined process points.

http://www.abec.com/

See also the iPod Nano and shuffle.  Gigabytes of storage for music and images, no moving parts.

I expect to see general purpose computers build along such designs available from commercial venders w/in the next 10 years.  Sooner from hackers and gamers as a result of their quest for silent PCs.

[Vodka7]

I remember seeing a solid state PCI card at least five years ago, might be closer to ten by now.  That wasn't exactly what you were describing though, it was basically a ton of SDRAM slapped on a card with an external power supply.  Was enough to boot Windows95 and play Quake1, cause that's the demo I saw

And like Jim mentioned, those hybrid drives seem to be the next big thing.

[Gewehr98]

It's being done, I understand.

I doubt there will ever be a Microsoft OS that will operate off of a flash card, unless Bill Gates steals some Linux platform.

How to Install and Boot Windows XP Off a Compact Flash Card

http://www.addonics.com/support/faqs/faq-bootcf.asp

 

I think I'm going to order one of the CF Hard Drive Adapters and give it a try.

[Sergeant Bob]

Here ya go!
Samsung unveils 32GB Flash-based 'HDD killer'

[wmenorr67]

I thought all computers were solid.  I have yet to see one in a liquid or gaseous state.

[RevDisk]

So, all you Linux guys, have you played with the concept yet?  I could see a very small, quiet, and energy-efficient solid-state computer running basically anywhere, immune to hard drive crashes. 

How many ya want?  $143 a pop for Linux, $350 ish for Windows XP.  Only moving part is a single fan, which costs $10 to replace.  Only problem is it's a thin client.

It'll be some time before solid state storage catches up to magnetic platter storage for mass storage.  RAID really is the way to go.  Lots of cheap HD's, mirrored for redundancy.  Solid state is only more efficient for small storage at this point.  MP3 players, routers, etc. 

[Monkeyleg]

My brother was telling me about a card/drive combination that AMD has developed.

The flash card handles all of the memory requirements when running an application, while the hard drive stays in a dormant state. When it's time to save the file, the hard drive spins up and the file is saved there.

[mtnbkr]

BTW, in this month's QST Magazine (amateur radio), there's a 1 page article about running Linux from a flash drive.  There are several links, including one to a site where you can buy it preloaded on a usb drive. 

Chris

[Gewehr98]

Solid-state, as in no moving parts, save for perhaps the electrons.

I thought all computers were solid.  I have yet to see one in a liquid or gaseous state.

Spinning hard drives, spinning power supply fans, etc.  It appears both need not be present to have a decent running small computer. 

[Sindawe]

I have yet to see one in a liquid or gaseous state.

Well, I HAVE seen colloid computers, and thats sorta liquid like.  VERY powerful and sophisticated, able to handle all kinds of data and able to perform 100 million MIPS (Million computer Instructions Per Second).  Unfortunately they are rather fragile and tend to stop working if you don't open the case VERY carefully or bang them around too much. And on occasion they will give really strange results even with perfect programing and data input.

[Azrael256]

CF's protocol is actually IDE.  Solid state storage with basically any OS is perfectly feasable with a big enough flash drive.  Heck, you can buy the little CF-to-IDE boards for a few bucks.  I have several Linux boxes in production right now with not a hard-drive in sight.

[Brian Williams]

I had a gateway handbook that ran win95b off a 512m CF card and with new batteries I got 5+ hours out of it.    It was a 486DX 2 40 that ran MS office and a few other programs.  it also had a PCCARD slot that I had a 512 M CF card in a PCCARD adapter.