Unexpectedly! Alabama jobless rate falls amid immigration reform

[roo_ster]

http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/18/alabama-jobless-rate-falls-amid-immigration-reform/

Alabama’s unemployment rate fell at a record pace in November amid stepped-up efforts by President Barack Obama’s deputies to frustrate enforcement of the state’s popular new immigration reform.

The state’s unemployment rate fell 0.6 percent in November to 8.7 percent, according to new state reports, partly because the state’s employers opened up jobs to Americans after shedding illegal immigrants.

The unemployment rate is far below October’s rate of 9.3 percent and September’s rate of 9.8 percent.

“The continued drop is proof that people — American Citizens [and] legal migrants, have suffered at the hands of politicians who choose politics over economics,” said Chuck Ellis, a council member in Northern Alabama’s Marshall County.

“What’s really amazing is that in Marshall County, a county of 95,000 residents, 30,000 workforce eligible, there are over 600 people who now have jobs that they didn’t have 6 months ago,” he said.

1.1% delta in two months.  I am sure the illegal immigration law going into effect 01OCT is coincidental.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/alabama/

oh wait  it fell last year too?same time?  lets see what after xmas looks like


http://westernfarmpress.com/blog/state-legislatures-create-problems-strict-immigration-reforms

http://southeastfarmpress.com/management/farm-labor-shortage-becoming-more-severe

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Farmers-say-Ala-immigration-law-could-cost-crops-2178408.php

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Farmers-say-Ala-immigration-law-could-cost-crops-2178408.php

and then there is the pesky impact of change.  how will all that economic turmoil affect jobs/spending downstream.   lets look to georgia

[roo_ster]

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/alabama/

oh wait  it fell last year too?same time?  lets see what after xmas looks like


http://westernfarmpress.com/blog/state-legislatures-create-problems-strict-immigration-reforms

http://southeastfarmpress.com/management/farm-labor-shortage-becoming-more-severe

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Farmers-say-Ala-immigration-law-could-cost-crops-2178408.php

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Farmers-say-Ala-immigration-law-could-cost-crops-2178408.php

and then there is the pesky impact of change.  how will all that economic turmoil affect jobs/spending downstream.   lets look to georgia

GA is doing even better, from what I read.  The whole, "crops rotting in the fields" meme seems to have drifted away.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://southeastfarmpress.com/management/studies-surveys-confirm-georgia-farm-labor-losses

not so much

Results of the study — released in October — show that farmers lost at least $74.9 million in unpicked crops harvested by hand this past spring and summer because they didn’t have enough labor. The farmers said they lacked 40 percent of the total work force they needed.

The numbers come from self-reported surveys completed by 189 farmers of onions, watermelons, bell peppers, cucumbers, squash, blueberries and blackberries, says John McKissick, director of the Center for Agribusiness and Economic Development and one of the study’s authors.

Researchers identified a shortage of 5,244 farm laborers from the seven crops. Farmers’ direct losses resulted in an extra $106.5 million loss in other goods and services in Georgia plus 1,282 fewer jobs across the state, the report projected. Using these numbers and assuming the farmers they surveyed are representative of all Georgia farmers with the same crops, the researchers projected the state’s total yearly losses could be $391 million and 3,260 full-time jobs.

In an effort to determine what the longer term or full-year impacts may be, the study asked how farmers’ 2012 production may be impacted by the labor situation experienced in 2011. While most respondents to the question indicated they would try to maintain production, a significant number of vegetable producers planned cuts.

“Yearly planted annual crops such as vegetables can more easily be altered than can perennial, multi-year crops such as those produced from berry bushes. However, even berry producers indicated planned changes in production and harvest/packing methods if the labor experience of 2011 is likely repeated in 2012,” states the report.

[TommyGunn]

Geeeesh.   
 

Well, the unemployment rate IS down, which is a good thing.  Farmers not being able to get enough people out there to pick?   Maybe .... but maybe the people being hired aren't in the farming business.

C&SD, would it be a huge imposition upon you to simply state your position without posting a row of links.  I don't mind links if someone feels this is a college thesis and has to provide source material but I am not going to hit on every ****** link I find here and go through all that garbage.
Both my cousins are into farming here in N. Alabama and if I feel that I need to know how things go I can simply ask them anyway.  I suspect they're not gonna spin the stats nearly as fast as some news sources do anyway.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i'd be real interested in what your cousins say.  i have yankee kin that farm and they would be sol if the amigos ran off

[TommyGunn]

I'll try to remember to ask them over Xmas.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

their knowledge trumps all the talking heads

[TommyGunn]

Is that sarcasm?  
The response I get will be limited to what they are experiencing, of course, and I have  no idea whether it will reflect what's going on at large across the state or even across N. Alabama.  Also, I have no idea how much help they hire for their lands and whether they hire "illegals" (I suspect not) or whever.

Another thing to consider is that much of farming is very dependant on the weather.  Get a real dry spell during growing season and that's gonna be a BAD year.  You have cotton and, OTOH, get too much rain; NOT a good thing.  
JUST because farmers may be hurting a particular year may reflect bad weather for their crop rather than a lack of .... "cheap" labor.  Now, you'd think that reporters researching stories would do enough background to figure out whther or not the weather caused the low profits for farmers or the problem was not enough slave labor ---er, Mexicans... but with the quality of reporting being what it is today, who knows........

[Monkeyleg]

The local rag runs an article every time an illegal is arrested, then complains about the law.

There seem to be a lot of arrests, though.

[TommyGunn]

The local rag runs an article every time an illegal is arrested, then complains about the law.

There seem to be a lot of arrests, though.

Were they complaining about the law so loudly before it was passed?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Is that sarcasm?  
The response I get will be limited to what they are experiencing, of course, and I have  no idea whether it will reflect what's going on at large across the state or even across N. Alabama.  Also, I have no idea how much help they hire for their lands and whether they hire "illegals" (I suspect not) or whever.

Another thing to consider is that much of farming is very dependant on the weather.  Get a real dry spell during growing season and that's gonna be a BAD year.  You have cotton and, OTOH, get too much rain; NOT a good thing.  
JUST because farmers may be hurting a particular year may reflect bad weather for their crop rather than a lack of .... "cheap" labor.  Now, you'd think that reporters researching stories would do enough background to figure out whther or not the weather caused the low profits for farmers or the problem was not enough slave labor ---er, Mexicans... but with the quality of reporting being what it is today, who knows........

nope  couple real farmers views is worth a couple dozen "ex spurts"

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2011-11-16/story/farmers-restaurant-owners-say-georgia-immigration-law-hurting-business

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/alabama-immigration-law-causing-produce-to-rot-in-the-fields/

    After talking with famers at the tomato shed, Beason visited the Smith family’s farm. Leroy Smith, Chad Smith’s father, challenged the senator to pick a bucket full of tomatoes and experience the labor-intensive work.

    Beason declined but promised to see what could be done to help farmers while still trying to keep illegal immigrants out of Alabama.

    Smith threw down the bucket he offered Beason and said, “There, I figured it would be like that.”

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

    Smith threw down the bucket he offered Beason and said, “There, I figured it would be like that.”

Hey, he should know that senators don't do anything for free. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Hey, he should know that senators don't do anything for freereal work. 

ftfy

[Monkeyleg]

Were they complaining about the law so loudly before it was passed? 

Oh, yeah. It's a liberal rag, the editors of which oppose any attempts to crack down on illegal immigration.

[Perd Hapley]

i'd be real interested in what your cousins say.  i have yankee kin that farm and they would be sol if the amigos ran off

Interesting that the pro-crime side of the immigration debate seems so pleased with our alleged dependence on illegal alien labor and/or taxes. As if that were not a problem, all by itself. (If we need them as badly as some claim.)

[dogmush]

Buncha links about farming in GA and AL

There's less cheap labor, so costs have gone up, and less work is getting done?  Well no *expletive deleted*it, Sherlock.

Excuse me while I shed crocodile tears that the cheap, easy, ILLEGAL business model is failing.  This is just like that dark day when I learned that robbing banks wasn't a long term career.

We (they) have a couple of choices here:
1. hire some legal workers at a wage they'll work for, take a dip in production while they become skilled, and adjust the consumer price of fresh veggies to make a profit.

2. Go all Eli Whitney and invent something to mechanically pick the stuff.

No business owner, in any industry, should get a pass at breaking laws just because it's more expensive to follow them.  Here's a question for folks OK with illegal labor:  Would you be as calm if an employer decided that the OSHA was just too expensive to follow, or those pesky child labor laws kept his most nimble workers off the sewing machines, so the hell with it?

[Jamisjockey]

Interesting that the pro-crime side of the immigration debate seems so pleased with our alleged dependence on illegal alien labor and/or taxes. As if that were not a problem, all by itself. (If we need them as badly as some claim.)

And he ignores the extra cost of illegal labor....Medicare, ss, insurance costs, stolen identities, chip, unpaid medical bills, etc. 

[Lee]

And he ignores the extra cost of illegal labor....Medicare, ss, insurance costs, stolen identities, chip, unpaid medical bills, etc.

and crime. 

I don't have an issue with people coming here to work.  It's the process that needs to be cleaned up, and the laws need to be enforced.  Conversely the system needs to work for those who try to use it.  I've read stories of people who have been working here, and trying to do it legally for 15-20 years, and never get any resolution from the authorities.  I work with quite a few highly educated immigrants from places like Canada, Europe, and Asia.  They are generally treated the same way.   We need to be cherry-picking the good ones to keep our workforce young and able.

[AJ Dual]

There's less cheap labor, so costs have gone up, and less work is getting done?  Well no *expletive deleted*, Sherlock.

Excuse me while I shed crocodile tears that the cheap, easy, ILLEGAL business model is failing.  This is just like that dark day when I learned that robbing banks wasn't a long term career.

We (they) have a couple of choices here:
1. hire some legal workers at a wage they'll work for, take a dip in production while they become skilled, and adjust the consumer price of fresh veggies to make a profit.

2. Go all Eli Whitney and invent something to mechanically pick the stuff.

No business owner, in any industry, should get a pass at breaking laws just because it's more expensive to follow them.  Here's a question for folks OK with illegal labor:  Would you be as calm if an employer decided that the OSHA was just too expensive to follow, or those pesky child labor laws kept his most nimble workers off the sewing machines, so the hell with it?

Yep, I'll pay a few bucks more for my lettuce and bell peppers.

Cheap price to pay for our borders and sovereignty.

The other issue is that in the long run, illegal immigration hurts Mexico too. Mexico's brand of racist/classist win-lose capitalism and culture of corruption will never get better as long as unchecked illegal immigration to the U.S. is available for anyone wishing to improve their lot, rather than staying home and being forced to work/fight for change.

[longeyes]

There's less cheap labor, so costs have gone up, and less work is getting done?  Well no *expletive deleted*, Sherlock.

Excuse me while I shed crocodile tears that the cheap, easy, ILLEGAL business model is failing.  This is just like that dark day when I learned that robbing banks wasn't a long term career.

We (they) have a couple of choices here:
1. hire some legal workers at a wage they'll work for, take a dip in production while they become skilled, and adjust the consumer price of fresh veggies to make a profit.

2. Go all Eli Whitney and invent something to mechanically pick the stuff.

No business owner, in any industry, should get a pass at breaking laws just because it's more expensive to follow them.  Here's a question for folks OK with illegal labor:  Would you be as calm if an employer decided that the OSHA was just too expensive to follow, or those pesky child labor laws kept his most nimble workers off the sewing machines, so the hell with it?

+1

Something we can agree on.  :)

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

did ohio pass an immigration bill too?

http://www.wlwt.com/r/30011760/detail.html

COLUMBUS -- Ohio's unemployment rate saw its largest one-month decline in nearly 30 years during November amid improvement in the state's job market and overall economy, and as thousands of the state's jobless stopped searching for work, officials said Friday. Gov. John Kasich called the report "encouraging."

Joblessness dropped to 8.5 percent last month, from 9 percent in October, the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services said. The half-percentage-point dip was the largest since summer 1983 and pushed the state's unemployment rate down to its lowest level since December 2008, said Ben Johnson, a department spokesman.

"The economy is getting better, the job market is improving, and slowly but surely Ohioans are getting back to work," Johnson said.

The unemployment rate went down in November as the state added jobs and as the labor market shrank because some 22,000 out-of-work Ohioans quit looking for jobs, he said.

Ohio payrolls outside of farms grew by 6,000 in November, led by gains in services jobs. Meanwhile, at goods-producing industries, hiring in manufacturing was offset by losses in construction, the department said. The number of workers unemployed in Ohio has fallen by 69,000 in the past 12 months, going down to 496,000 in November, from 526,000 in October.

The state's jobless rate has declined by more than two full percentage points since the height of the recession, and in November was below the national rate of 8.6 percent.

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/money/30011760/detail.html#ixzz1h6sDPijL

[longeyes]

and crime. 

I don't have an issue with people coming here to work.  It's the process that needs to be cleaned up, and the laws need to be enforced.  Conversely the system needs to work for those who try to use it.  I've read stories of people who have been working here, and trying to do it legally for 15-20 years, and never get any resolution from the authorities.  I work with quite a few highly educated immigrants from places like Canada, Europe, and Asia.  They are generally treated the same way.   We need to be cherry-picking the good ones to keep our workforce young and able.

14 million Americans out of work, and you have no issues with adding to the workforce, both legally and illegally?

[AJ Dual]

did ohio pass an immigration bill too?

http://www.wlwt.com/r/30011760/detail.html

COLUMBUS -- Ohio's unemployment rate saw its largest one-month decline in nearly 30 years during November amid improvement in the state's job market and overall economy, and as thousands of the state's jobless stopped searching for work, officials said Friday. Gov. John Kasich called the report "encouraging."

Joblessness dropped to 8.5 percent last month, from 9 percent in October, the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services said. The half-percentage-point dip was the largest since summer 1983 and pushed the state's unemployment rate down to its lowest level since December 2008, said Ben Johnson, a department spokesman.

"The economy is getting better, the job market is improving, and slowly but surely Ohioans are getting back to work," Johnson said.

The unemployment rate went down in November as the state added jobs and as the labor market shrank because some 22,000 out-of-work Ohioans quit looking for jobs, he said.

Ohio payrolls outside of farms grew by 6,000 in November, led by gains in services jobs. Meanwhile, at goods-producing industries, hiring in manufacturing was offset by losses in construction, the department said. The number of workers unemployed in Ohio has fallen by 69,000 in the past 12 months, going down to 496,000 in November, from 526,000 in October.

The state's jobless rate has declined by more than two full percentage points since the height of the recession, and in November was below the national rate of 8.6 percent.

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/money/30011760/detail.html#ixzz1h6sDPijL

I won't argue the unemployment rate with you. There's no point. The official number is so fake for propaganda reasons, excluding the "underemployed", and those who've given up seeking work, and those on multi-generational welfare assistance who've never even started.

And both sides have reasons to make the number bigger or smaller to suit their political goals. Although, the DNC is in the odd position of needing the number higher and lower right now. Seeing as they desperately need lower numbers to boost Obama's polling data, yet at the same time, want the number to be the same, or even higher, so they can take a stab at buying votes with unemployment extensions, and simultaneously make any Republican or other fiscal conservative who opposes it look bad at the same time.

I actually agree that the unemployment numbers are probably all just seasonal part-time retail and other holiday temporary jobs, and have zero to do with illegals fleeing the state.

However, that's the key term here... "illegal".

There is no other nation on earth that just allows someone to waltz across their borders and take up residence and play in their job market. Not counting the bribery and corruption, Mexico enforces their southern border much more sternly than we do ours.

I actually am willing to entertain Libertarian notions of open-border policy, however, to even consider it, it has to be the LAST piece of policy enacted in a "no free lunch whatsoever" society, not the first.

[zahc]

Texas is currently renowned for its low unemployment rate, its job growth rate, and its illegal immigrant labor. Deytukarjobs hysteria doesn't accurately capture the effect of illegal immigration on employment opportunities, but it's an interesting data point.