Author Topic: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'  (Read 12242 times)

GigaBuist

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2009, 11:38:00 PM »
Is this logic correct, or is he missing some numbers?

Well, he's not taking into account the savings in oil consumption year after year.  It seems like a rather short sighted analysis.

Of course, the only reason the energy savings was made part of the program is there's no way you could get it passed the more liberal Democrats without some kind of "green" angle on it.  Hummers for Clunkers wouldn't sell well with a great many people.

If it was just about moving the vehicles off the lots, they wouldn't have put a restriction on what vehicles qualified. I'm sure there are plenty of people who could use a new pickup and would have used the rebate for that

You could get a new pickup truck under the deal but you'd probably only get $3500 under most circumstances.  My old man turned in a beat-up Dodge Ram for a new Chevy Silverado work truck. To get the $3500 you only had to show a 4mpg increase in efficiency and like all the C4C deals the original car had to get less than 20mpg combined on highway and city driving.

And stimulating car sales is debatable, because like G98, I'm waiting to see the repossessions begin.
I'll be really surprised if we see massive repossessions spring up.  The banks are handing out money willy-nilly these days.  One would have hoped they learned their lesson with regards to handing out loans to unqualified people.

Anecdotal data: I know plenty of people that had qualifying cars but didn't cash in on the deal.  The only people I know that did are myself and my father.  I'm sure he paid cash for his remaining balance and owns it outright while I'm going to be paying mine off over the next few years with a minimum monthly payment that's tiny by my standards.

It's funny how one's own perception colors things I guess.  On this board it's seen as cash for people too poor to buy a new car.  On other segments of the web it's seen as cash for rich people that can afford a new car.

That's not to say I think the program was a good idea or anything.  It was a nice little kick to the economy but we're just going to see new cars sales lag for a long time now.  I, like my father, were planning on just running out old beaters into the ground, fixing them as needed, and probably buy a new vehicle in a year or two if the economy looked like it was getting better or at least not getting worse.  This just pushed up the purchase date ahead of time and now neither of us will buy a vehicle in the next 5 years or so.

Gewehr98

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2009, 11:48:32 AM »
We saw a very nice, damned-near pristine, 2001 Chevy S-10 Blazer 4x4 with "Clunker" written on the windshield at my local GM dealer yesterday.  It was so clean you could have eaten off of it.

I'd have gladly given them what the dealer gave the previous owners for that vehicle, in a heartbeat.  Now they're gonna trash the 4.3L V-6 with Bon Ami dumped into the valve covers while running (or whatever the Federally-approved technique is) and scrap the vehicle, instead.

Nice, Obama.  Really nice.  :mad:
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Boomhauer

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2009, 11:57:44 AM »
Quote
We saw a very nice, damned-near pristine, 2001 Chevy S-10 Blazer 4x4 with "Clunker" written on the windshield at my local GM dealer yesterday.  It was so clean you could have eaten off of it.

I'd have gladly given them what the dealer gave the previous owners for that vehicle, in a heartbeat.  Now they're gonna trash the 4.3L V-6 with Bon Ami dumped into the valve covers while running (or whatever the Federally-approved technique is) and scrap the vehicle, instead.

I saw plenty of good vehicles destined for the same fate. Good, clean pickup trucks w/o body damage, good running engines (until the silica compound went into it), etc. That's why I have zero sympathy for anyone who participated in this program and had difficulties because of it.

aholes.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Nick1911

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2009, 12:06:44 PM »
I saw plenty of good vehicles destined for the same fate. Good, clean pickup trucks w/o body damage, good running engines (until the silica compound went into it), etc. That's why I have zero sympathy for anyone who participated in this program and had difficulties because of it.

aholes.

I don't have any hard feeling towards those who saw this program as economically advantageous and decided to take advantage of it.  That's what capitalism is all about, from the end users perspective.

I DO have a problem that the program existed in the first place.  I don't think tax dollars should fund this kind of tomfoolery.  But, that's not the fault of those individuals that did what was in their best interest, that's the fault of the politicians.  (Surprise)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2009, 12:22:35 PM »
I don't have any hard feeling towards those who saw this program as economically advantageous and decided to take advantage of it.  That's what capitalism is all about, from the end users perspective.

I DO have a problem that the program existed in the first place.  I don't think tax dollars should fund this kind of tomfoolery.  But, that's not the fault of those individuals that did what was in their best interest, that's the fault of the politicians.  (Surprise)
That.

If there's a pile of money sitting on the ground with a sign that reads "Free, Take Me", you'd be a fool not to take it.  The fault lies with the moron who left the pile of money there in the first place, not the person who picked it up.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2009, 12:29:26 PM »
I think Avenger is talking about the people who probably shouldn't be buying a car right now anyways, and/or the Dealers who Uncle Sam has left holding the bag....
JD

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coppertales

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2009, 01:34:12 PM »
I am kinda in the market for a new pickup but after cruising the lots looking at what is out there, to replace my 96 F150 XLT with a like truck would cost me over 30000 bucks.  That is way more car payment I would get into.  Both of our trucks run just fine so we passed....chris3

JonnyB

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2009, 02:33:35 PM »
I brought a pickup-load of scrap iron to the recycling place on Friday. All of the open space around the yard was covered with parked vehicles, all of which had "Clunker" on the windshield.

Some of these were nice-looking rides. One, in particular, caught my eye: a nice Chevy AWD Astro van. The body was in fine shape but, of course, I have no idea how mechanically sound it was. Also there was a late 80s orearly 90s Dodge Ram pickup. Again, a nice-looking truck. These were hardly the only ones. Some really decent used cars - affordable used cars - went to the smelter, instead of providing years of inexpensive driving for someone.

A shame, I think.

jb
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Gewehr98

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2009, 06:49:44 PM »
Local GM dealership - all "clunkers", and the dealer told me they're already allocated to the nearby scrap yard, vs. being sold to people waving cash in hand.  I asked specifically about the 2001-2002 silver S-10 Blazer, and the two late-model Dodge pickups.



Good-looking Explorer:



Buick sedan and another late-model S-10 Blazer:



Dodge pickups, and yet another S-10 Blazer:



Jeep Cherokee and one more S-10 Blazer:




"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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Boomhauer

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2009, 07:05:35 PM »
G98, that breaks my heart.

Quote
One, in particular, caught my eye: a nice Chevy AWD Astro van.

Those are excellent vehicles...we ran one to 636K miles.



Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

RocketMan

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2009, 08:22:10 PM »
Cash for Clunkers = Colossal Waste
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2009, 09:04:51 PM »
Yeah, but we can all get rich by destroying valuable assets.  Didn't you hear them say so on the Tee Vee?

Grebnaws

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2009, 10:14:26 PM »
Almost every one of those vehicles pictures is nicer than any car or truck I have ever owned. I had to take out a small personal loan to purchase an older pickup last fall and would love to have seen any of those on the used market. I can promise you that in 4 months of searching I never found a single truck as nice as those <200k miles for $3500 or less anywhere in central IL. Not that all of these machines are likely to be in great running condition but they definitely don't meet my definition of clunker. My parents drove clunkers while raising us. You could see the road going by beneath your feet, the cracked vinyl slashed the backs of your legs, doors tied shut with a jump rope, and none of them were fit to drive on the interstate because they shook and wobbled so violently.

Cash for klunkers is a crock IMO.

Boomhauer

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2009, 10:20:19 PM »
Quote
Almost every one of those vehicles pictures is nicer than any car or truck I have ever owned. I had to take out a small personal loan to purchase an older pickup last fall and would love to have seen any of those on the used market

Exactly. These vehicles were running vehicles that had been on the road and are now permanently taken off. I've driven far worse and never complained.

Quote
Cash for klunkers is a crock IMO.

It's not just your opinion, it is a fact.

It would have been much, much more sensible to let the car dealers resell the "clunkers" intact. Like G98 said, people were waving cash and turned down. That would have given the dealers a 1-2 punch on sales- sell a new car, and sell a decent used one that they got for free.

Alas, this program was never about helping the dealers. It was solely about helping the unions and reducing the supply of used vehicles and parts.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

French G.

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2009, 10:25:41 PM »
Well, on the bright side, my leaking oil, rebuilt  transmission, fixed everything, drive it everyday clunker just became a collectors item.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2009, 10:38:06 PM »
Well, it only cost a few billion to remove those nice vehicles from the highways. Given the success of the program, I wonder if they're going give people money to demolish their homes and build "greener" houses? Hell, we could turn the economy around and make the US a paradise by completely destroying it.

Ben

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2009, 10:13:17 PM »
Wow -- those two Dodge trucks look really nice. What a shame...
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Gewehr98

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2009, 10:14:58 PM »
There was a like-new Chevy Silverado, too.   =(
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Boomhauer

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2009, 10:18:56 PM »
There was a like-new Chevy Silverado, too.   =(

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Just think...the one who owned the Silverado traded it in for less than what many would have paid for cash for a late model Silverado.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

41magsnub

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2009, 10:21:25 PM »
This pisses me off, any of those later model used trucks looks better than mine (from the outside anyway).

Gewehr98

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2009, 10:39:25 PM »
No lie, it's sitting here in the "Clunker" section right next to the black S-10 Blazer:



This was the one that had the dealership's mechanic almost in tears - he told me to go see it for myself.   :O
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

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Boomhauer

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2009, 11:08:16 PM »
Quote
No lie, it's sitting here in the "Clunker" section right next to the black S-10 Blazer:

GD it! That's the same year model as mine- a '99. That I paid a whole lot more than 4500 for. It's in perfect condition, for chrissakes!

What 'tard traded that in, I wonder



Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

p12

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2009, 11:40:26 PM »

What 'tard traded that in, I wonder





Some "tards" that drank the largess koolaid. :mad:

We had about 40-45 of them. Some were a damn shame. There are good people that would have paid good money for some of those dependable vehicles so they could reliably get to work.

Viking

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2009, 07:26:41 AM »
Yeah, but we can all get rich by destroying valuable assets.  Didn't you hear them say so on the Tee Vee?
Hah! I've figured it out now! Obama is born on the planet Bizarro!
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GigaBuist

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Re: Cash for Clunkers 'Surprise'
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2009, 09:53:25 PM »
GD it! That's the same year model as mine- a '99. That I paid a whole lot more than 4500 for. It's in perfect condition, for chrissakes!

What 'tard traded that in, I wonder

If it's really worth more than $4500, at auction, then the dealership was 'tarded too. I doubt somebody that deals in cars would make that kind of mistake but you never know.