Author Topic: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....  (Read 9429 times)

Fjolnirsson

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091022/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_executive_pay

Quote
WASHINGTON – The Treasury Department on Thursday ordered seven companies that received billions of dollars in government bailouts to halve total compensation for their top executives. But the big reductions will not apply to pay earned before November.

Kenneth Feinberg, the Treasury official leading the pay review, told reporters that average salaries for the top 25 executives are being cut 90 percent starting next month.

The action will apply to the top executives at Bank of America Corp., American International Group Inc., Citigroup Inc., General Motors, GMAC, Chrysler and Chrysler Financial.

More at the link. I ask myself, "Self," I say, "if your boss told you he was cutting your salary in half, and you would be performing the same duties, what would you do?" I'd tell him to take his job and shove it.

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BridgeRunner

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2009, 06:19:52 PM »
I did just hear an interview with Ken Feinberg on the radio, where he stated that a large portion of these are not straight pay cuts, but conversions from cash to stock, for whatver that's worth.

Fjolnirsson

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2009, 06:23:49 PM »
Yeah, the 90% figure is just shock value. It works out to around 50%, according to the article. Still, someone tries to change the deal on me like that, I'd go elsewhere..
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2009, 06:26:29 PM »
I ask myself, "Self," I say, "if your boss told you he was cutting your salary in half, and you would be performing the same duties, what would you do?" I'd tell him to take his job and shove it.

You say that as if it might, in this case, be a bad thing.

???
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Fly320s

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2009, 07:53:43 PM »
Anyone catch Judge Napoitano on Fox News today?  He rattled off several reasons why this deal is unconstituional, but I can't remember his examples.  On a related note, is "Judge" his first name or former profession?
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2009, 10:49:51 PM »
He was a judge. In Arizona, I think.

The government has no authority to regulate someone's pay any more than they can force someone to buy something he/she doesn't want or need (health insurance).

This is so far out of control that I wonder if the SC could ever reel it back in, or if they'd just roll over for the executive and legislative branches.

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Gewehr98

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2009, 10:55:05 PM »
I thought it was scary when Obama fired the GM CEO.  Ominous, as it were...   :|
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Wildalaska

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 02:34:16 AM »
Newsflash: 14 companies bailed out by the government, including GM and Bank of America filed bankruptcy today, citing irreversible losses since their top executives quit for more money and benefits at their competitors.

In other financial news, Ford, under the leadership of former Bank of America and GM executives, reported record profits. Commissar Rahm Emanual on behalf of Chairman Hussien, was reportedly seeking legislation that precluded executives from changing companies without the permission of the Politb...White House

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MikeB

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 06:00:03 AM »
Let's see. So we have a problem with shrinking tax revenues, so let's cut the pay of some of the people that pay the most in income taxes. Brilliant.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2009, 09:23:21 AM »
Quote
Let's see. So we have a problem with shrinking tax revenues, so let's cut the pay of some of the people that pay the most in income taxes. Brilliant.

Ah, but if you cut their pay, the money they would have gotten goes to the commune.

BryanP

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2009, 10:23:39 AM »
If you take the king's shilling ...
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makattak

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2009, 10:36:24 AM »
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Balog

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2009, 11:22:18 AM »
If you take the king's shilling ...

This. I find it difficult to have sympathy when the [deleted] complains about getting [deleted]. When you sell your .biz to fed.gov you shouldn't be surprised when they tell you what to do.

edited - The Round Table is all-ages, lest we forget...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 12:06:11 PM by Gewehr98 »
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Fjolnirsson

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2009, 11:25:19 AM »
This. I find it difficult to have sympathy when the [deleted] complains about getting [deleted]. When you sell your .biz to fed.gov you shouldn't be surprised when they tell you what to do.

Oh, absolutely. I'm just saying it's a stupid move on the Feds part. Oh, wait. I'm repeating myself....
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 12:07:10 PM by Gewehr98 »
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RevDisk

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2009, 12:05:24 PM »
I thought it was scary when Obama fired the GM CEO.  Ominous, as it were...   :|

I agree with Bryan.  When you take the King's shilling, you are the King's man.  Maybe next time companies learn bloody well to stay away from the government's checkbook if they know it will bring them personal ruin.  Retroactive paycuts, bills of attainder, for messing with the pay of non-welfare corporations, I'd agree scary. 
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Gewehr98

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2009, 12:09:17 PM »
IIRC, the GM CEO got the Presidential boot before GM was even close to getting their bailout.  IOW, they hadn't received the king's shilling yet.  When FedGov can arbitrarily fire private business leaders that aren't necessarily beholding to them, that's bad juju.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2009, 12:13:29 PM »
IIRC, the GM CEO got the Presidential boot before GM was even close to getting their bailout.  IOW, they hadn't received the king's shilling yet.  When FedGov can arbitrarily fire private business leaders that aren't necessarily beholding to them, that's bad juju.

I'm pretty sure they had either gotten the money or agreed to take it.

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MikeB

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2009, 07:45:04 PM »
Ah, but if you cut their pay, the money they would have gotten goes to the commune.
Ok ................... Wait a minute ........What Commune .........

Or that's what I would hope our national reporters would actually ask. Of course I don't expedt any different.

makattak

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2009, 11:47:51 PM »
I agree with Bryan.  When you take the King's shilling, you are the King's man.  Maybe next time companies learn bloody well to stay away from the government's checkbook if they know it will bring them personal ruin.  Retroactive paycuts, bills of attainder, for messing with the pay of non-welfare corporations, I'd agree scary. 

My biggest problem is not just the breaking of contracts. I expect the Democrats to ignore the law, thus that argument I am unlikely to make as it will fall on deaf ears.

My argument is that this is STUPID. Cut the pay of the top people cause you're angry. Many will leave (as I have already noted many did it preemptively) and many aspiring to be one of those top people will leave because they know they will not be rewarded.

Thus the smartest ones will leave. Sooo... just like the government, we're left with the ones that are either incapable or incompetent.

But HEY, at least they are getting paid less.

I've read so many stupid liberal comments about this- "They caused the problems!!! Let them leave, the company can only get better!!!"

"If another company hires them, they'll just take that company down too!!!"

I would say I'm surprised, but long ago I realized the left point of view has very little grounding in reality.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Nitrogen

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2009, 12:31:17 AM »
This. I find it difficult to have sympathy when the [swell folks at banks] complains about getting [intercoursed]. When you sell your .biz to fed.gov you shouldn't be surprised when they tell you what to do.

edited - The Round Table is all-ages, lest we forget...

You take the man's money, you follow the man's rules, even when they change them in midstream.  Honestly, I think they are getting the devil's due.  I'm shocked that Obama hasnt pulled Sherman Antitrust out of mothballs already.

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makattak

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2009, 12:37:50 AM »
You take the man's money, you follow the man's rules, even when they change them in midstream.  Honestly, I think they are getting the devil's due.  I'm shocked that Obama hasnt pulled Sherman Antitrust out of mothballs already.

That's for punishing the insurance companies for telling the truth, silly.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

zahc

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2009, 01:41:47 AM »
Quote
The government has no authority to regulate someone's pay any more than they can force someone to buy something he/she doesn't want or need (health insurance).

They already do via minimum wage laws, and have been for a long time.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2009, 04:19:25 AM »
They already do via minimum wage laws, and have been for a long time.

Clearly you know what to do, then.
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Lee

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2009, 01:12:24 PM »
Quote
Thus the smartest ones will leave. Sooo... just like the government, we're left with the ones that are either incapable or incompetent.

I agree it's a punitive move, but I guess it's all relative...since "the best and the brightest" already succeeded in bankrupting their companies and tanking the global economy.  Sadly, they will just move on and carry on business as usual. They'll all just continue to develop and utilize new means of transferring wealth from us to themselves, no matter where they work.  At least the incompetent and slow might stick with what they know, like producing goods and services that have actual value, and are perhaps desired by customers...unlike derivatives, hedge funds, or other clever things, known and understood only by "the best and brightest". 
Who knows, there may actually be some bright people who will step into those jobs, only for the satisfaction of the challenge and an opportunity to make a paltry $1-2 million a year base, and bonus based on successful performances. 
The so called meltdown succeeded at shining a little light on the situation, but the fleecing continues at break-neck speed.  Obama and friends (including Wall Street) are just throwing a bone to the masses.
I just wish I could figure out how to hedge my finances to protect my family from them.  I'm thinking a paid for double-wide trailer, with a wood burning stove (in the boonies), a big garden, and a good squirrel rifle might be the best investment going. I don't think they can think small enough to steal or transfer those things from me to them.

makattak

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Re: Deliberately courting failure...Government to slash salaries....
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2009, 09:24:58 PM »
I agree it's a punitive move, but I guess it's all relative...since "the best and the brightest" already succeeded in bankrupting their companies and tanking the global economy.  Sadly, they will just move on and carry on business as usual. They'll all just continue to develop and utilize new means of transferring wealth from us to themselves, no matter where they work.  At least the incompetent and slow might stick with what they know, like producing goods and services that have actual value, and are perhaps desired by customers...unlike derivatives, hedge funds, or other clever things, known and understood only by "the best and brightest". 
Who knows, there may actually be some bright people who will step into those jobs, only for the satisfaction of the challenge and an opportunity to make a paltry $1-2 million a year base, and bonus based on successful performances. 
The so called meltdown succeeded at shining a little light on the situation, but the fleecing continues at break-neck speed.  Obama and friends (including Wall Street) are just throwing a bone to the masses.
I just wish I could figure out how to hedge my finances to protect my family from them.  I'm thinking a paid for double-wide trailer, with a wood burning stove (in the boonies), a big garden, and a good squirrel rifle might be the best investment going. I don't think they can think small enough to steal or transfer those things from me to them.

>.<

Many of these executives had nothing to do with the problems in their companies.

Secondly, as I have said many times, they did not make foolish moves. They assumed they could take on the risk associated with those "toxic" assets judging that the government would be likely to bail them out if these assets failed.

Their risk assessment was exactly right. Their purchasing those assets is the result of what economists call a "moral hazard"- the, government by indicating they were willing to bail out these assets (through their backing of Fannie and Freddie) made them more attractive. Knowing that, the companies bought these assets because the government artificially lowered the risk on them.

When the government is handing out "free" money (or backing VERY risky securities that will, therefore, pay a higher premium), very few people will fail to line up.

Be angry about the "failure of the market" if you want. The market responded as it always will. If you don't want something like this to happen again, though, get angry about the government skewing the incentives in the market.

I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought