Biting dog + my infant's butt = 2nd chance???

[Ex-MA Hole]

Ok, I need y'all's advice.  My sister has a Teacup Yorkshire Terrier.  It weighs a whopping 4 1/2 pounds.  About 9 months ago, it bit my baby.  Today, my farther put my child ask risk again, or did he?

My baby (Samantha) was about 10 months old, and she had just learned to walk.  We were down visiting the 'rents, Sammi was WALKING AWAY FROM EVERYONE, when my sister's little sh*t of a dog ran accross the room AFTER HER and bit my daughter in the ass.  Fortunately for all, the dog got a mouth full of diaper only.  Sammi never even noticed.  

Fast forward.  About a month ago, my Father said something to me about "re-introducing them" to each other, that the dog just got spooked, yada, yada, yada.  I told him flat out no.  Two weeks ago, the same thing,  still a stern "no" from me.

We went by today, and he had the dog out.  I asked him to put her away.  He did.  An hour later, she was out again, so I held my daughter.  He finally got the point and put her away.

Then, about 20 minutes later, Sammi is feeding his other two dogs some crackers who are at EYE LEVEL on an ottoman.  Cute, huh?  Then I notice that the 3rd dog is hiding behind my mother trying to get food.  Well, I went a little nuts.  I was not yelling, but was rather vocal that we had made a deal, that he broke the deal, and that he went against my wishes.  He said to me "what are you afraid of, that she will bite your dog?"  I said that she already did.  He replied that "She only bit her diaper, it was no big deal".  I promptly packed my stuff and left.  A dog bite my baby in the ass, and now he has the same dog at eye level with food in my kids hand?

Now, am I over-reacting?

A.  The physical scar/ whatever from a dog bite.  Yes, it's a small dog, but my 17 month old has a small, pretty face.  Teeth marks would not be appreciated.

B.   I have 2 dogs and 2 cats, and it's important to me that Sam not be afraid of animals.  I fear that one bite will end her relationships with our pets.

- OR -

My father is right, it was a fluke thing, get over it?


What do y'all think?

[Can'thavenuthingood]

He don't see the baby again unless he comes to your house.

When a dog bites unexpectedly in that situation, it can't be trusted, it dies.

I grew up with dogs, many dogs.

Vick

[Guest]

Its one thing for a dog to be pestered by a kid and bite out of fear, even that isnt a good thing, but it might be understandable. For the dog to actually approach the child and bite it means that the dog sees the kid as something that he can exert dominance over, or play with. That is an amazingly dangerous situation and that kid and dog need to never be in the same building at the same time. Personally, I would put down any animal of mine that went after a child like that, but thats just me.

[brimic]

I wouldn't put a small child in the same vacinity as a small ankle biting dog regardless of the dog's history. They tend to have very bad temperments.

[SpookyPistolero]

Yup, a no-go on this one.

We always had mastiffs when growing up, very great dogs. We dog one that had some kind of imbalance though. I really think something was chemically wrong with him. You'd be playing, then suddenly he'd short circuit a bit and actually use force, instead of 'play' force. I had this 200+ lb dogs mouth at my throat once (he would have gotten a bullet if my dad hadn't pulled him off), and then he took a section of my upper lip off another time, requiring plastic surgery.

My dad would still not put the dog down. So then it eventually went for my dads hand, requiring two reconstructive surgeries. His own blood getting spilled finally convinced him to put it down.

Anyway, keep the baby away from the dog. The dog we had was an anomoly, but stuff happens.

[Guest]

I wouldn't put a small child in the same vacinity as a small ankle biting dog regardless of the dog's history. They tend to have very bad temperments.

I agree. There are some breeds that *generally* do well with kids, I dont think any of them are of the smaller breeds though.

[Antibubba]

Overbreeding=psychosis.

You're right.  Dad's wrong.

[Ex-MA Hole]

Thank y'all.  I thought so, but I needed to hear it from independant people.

All that was going through my head was that my father intentionally put my infant at risk.  This statement caused an emtional response which was cluding my ability to think rationally.

A Grandfather INTENTIONALLY putting his infant at risk.

Wow.

Kind of an eye opener of a day.  I see dad in a whole new light.

[Stand_watie]

You're right.

I think your infant daughter's greatest risk is from the emotional injury. It would be a darn shame for a child to lose the pleasure of the love of dogs from a single bad instance, but that is entirely possible.

Your father is terrifically wrong to agree to one thing, and then defy your wishes about the dog in relation to your daughter. Parents usually think they know more than their kids (certainly they usually do) and that their kids just need to be shown that they were wrong. Sadly if your dad (or many other fathers) thought that seatbelts and infant car seats were "nonsense" it would probably be taking your daughter out for a drive and letting her ride on gramma's lap in the car. You should respectfully, but firmly explain to him that it's now become a trust issue that's a lot more important than the dog, and he's going to have to earn your trust back. I don't think he intentionally put your daughter at risk, I think he believes you are wrong. Put it in another light, when your daughter is grown supposed she is an avowed ant-gunner and will not allow your grandchildren at your residence unless your guns are secured in the safe. Now you absolutely know that pistol is perfectly secure in your holster on your waist, and your grandkids are safer for it. Will you agree to put the pistol in the gun safe and then put it back on when she turns her back? I wouldn't.

Not that it excuses your dad's behavior, but I'd venture a guess that that dog has an 'I've got em' on the run, I'll attack when they're going away' from me' complex (I'm sure a dog behaviorist would have a better term for it). We had a beagle when I was a kid who was a sweet, loving, friendly-to-everyone dog with the exception of the wheels going around and the feet pedaling on a bicycle drove him absolutely nuts. Put your feet down and he went from 60 to 0 instantly. Had a black-mouth cur that absolutely had to attack the moving wheels of any motorized vehicle, actually trying to sink his teeth into the moving tires that quickly led to his demise at when he did it to a vehicle pulling a trailer that was wider than the vehicle (we surmise).

[Ex-MA Hole]

"Will you agree to put the pistol in the gun safe and then put it back on when she turns her back? I wouldn't."

Me neither.  It's called respect.

[Waitone]

Yorkies are territorial and don't like another "pet" entering their space.  You daughter is a competitor to the dog and will remain so until your daughter can establish her dominance over the dog.  In the case of a Yorkie it may never happen.  

Be thankful she was bitten on the diaper.  A dog bit my grandson on the eye.  Teeth marks above the eye and teeth marks below the eye.  Exactly the way dogs fight each other.  Draw a big, wide, and bright line between your daughter and their dog.  They screw up and your daughter pays for it the rest of her life.  Ain't worth it.

[grampster]

You are right and your father is wrong.  What's more, I find it quite odd that he can't seem to see that.

We had a small dog, schnauzer/terrier mix.  When our first grandson began to crawl around on the floor, the dog made a pass at him.  I grabbed my grandson out of harms way; the dog did not touch him, thankfully.  We loved the dog, but I immedietely put him in the car, took him to the vet and put him down.  We still have his cremains and have fond memories of him.   Kids are more important than animals.

[Stand_watie]

You are right and your father is wrong.  What's more, I find it quite odd that he can't seem to see that.

We had a small dog, schnauzer/terrier mix...

You know I used to be quite bigoted against all lap dogs or lap sized dogs, but just recently I've met a chijaujua (sp?), cocker spaniel, and two weiner dogs that were all as calm as could be.

I think if I was going to get an indoor/outdoor/ride in the car with me dog I might like a jack russel if I was confident I could train him properly (I'm not sure I'd be willing to try and tackle such a high energy/prey drive dog).

[Stand_watie]

Hah. I just responded to another thread that made me wonder whether a marijauana addiction would be a behavioral improvement for some of these high energy and agressive dogs.

[Lo.Com.Denom]

You're absolutely in the right. I wouldn't go so far as to have the dog put down, but I definitely wouldn't have it around the kid, until she's old enough to put it in its place.

I won't put my dogs near children -- they're both too territorial. Fortunately, we don't have any kids in our family to worry about.

[grislyatoms]

A Grandfather INTENTIONALLY putting his infant at risk.

You know your Dad way better than I ever will, but that may be a little harsh.

I don't believe he intended to put your kiddo at risk. Sounds more like one of those deals where Dad thinks he knows the dog better than anyone else and honestly thought the diaper incident was just a fluke.  As additional evidence to that theory, the eye-level-with-food situation. Sounds like Dad is forgetting basic dog behavior / instinct.

Maybe take Dad aside when you are both calm and remind him about some of the low points of dog behaviors.  

FWIW, in this situation, you were absolutely right and he was absolutely wrong, but "INTENTIONALLY" bespeaks a level of malice that seems out of place, given the situation.

By the way, little ankle snapper dogs have always irked me to no end. My great grandma had a chihuahua that was more a miniature,  furry alligator than a dog. How I loathed that dog.

[K Frame]

The dog felt that its position in the household was being threatened by another creature. The dog didn't necessarily identify your daughter as a human because it's not acting in the manner in which it's accustomed to humans acting.

Very tough to say whether the dog could be introduced to the child at this time without the same thing happening.

It's best to keep them segregated.

[Ex-MA Hole]

I guess I used the word "intentionally" more as I had told him on more than one occasion, and he didn't listen.  I told him I was afraid that the dog would harm my tot.  Based on that, he "intentionally" went against my wishes, and, (ok, you may be right) intentionally- or not- put my tot in danger a second time.

Thank y'all for the feedback.  I appreciate it.

FWI- We saw my rents today at an offsite location, and they both gave my wife an I the cold shoulder.  They think we are blowing this way out of proportion.  I'll go with the " Sounds more like one of those deals where Dad thinks he knows the dog better than anyone else and honestly thought the diaper incident was just a fluke".

To them it was.  To me, I'm not willing to take that chance.  It's my Daughter.

[Iain]

You and your father need to have a level talk. You don't want your kid bitten and that is perfectly reasonable. He probably thinks the dog is pretty wonderful and can't see why you can't see that.

I had to get over that with my dog. He's wonderful and pliable and entirely trustworthy except around children. When there are kids about he is shut away, no questions and no risks. I don't want to have to destroy my dog because he did something doglike in a situation that I didn't expose him to young enough, I'd blame myself entirely.

[Antibubba]

Your folks have a baby in their life, and it's that little dog.  They refuse to believe their "child" would hurt their granddaughter.  They might even think that you are jealous of the attention the dog takes away from your daughter.  

Maybe you can come up with photos and articles on small dog attacks.

[Jamisjockey]

My dog of 10 years bit my child in the face.  Twice.  They were just scratches, but that was it.  She went to the Humane society as an identified biter.
Do not allow the dog to be around your child.  Its not safe, and all it takes is one 'nip' to turn into an eye being put out, a finger coming off.....

[Guest]

Not that it excuses your dad's behavior, but I'd venture a guess that that dog has an 'I've got em' on the run, I'll attack when they're going away' from me' complex (I'm sure a dog behaviorist would have a better term for it).

It's called "chase behavior" and while it is an understandable behavior in dogs, it is also quite possibly the single greatest behavior that results in attacks on humans. It is a way that dogs play, it is also a way that dogs kill their food, there is no "evil" intention in either act. Just because there isnt any "malice" in the dogs actions doesnt make his behavior acceptable. That will make for pretty hollow comfort while one gets to hold their child down while they recieve stiches.

[roo_ster]

ex-ma-hole:
You are correct in not allowing your daughter to be in a house with a known, unrestrained, biter.   Especially a chaser/biter.

Until your dad understands the nature of the danger of such a situation (and can articulate why it is dangerous), I would not leave my daughter there.  Period.  He give's y'all the cold shoulder?  Too effing bad.  Daddy needs to get his head out of his fourth point of contact & figure out which is more important: his granddaughter or one of his dogs.

I just plain would not trust your dad, if he said he won't allow the two to mix.  We see how that worked out.

When I introduce my boy to others' dogs', I am right down there with them in case of any untoward behavior.  Also, I don't leave my boy alone with our dogs, despite neither dog ever biting a human.  There were one or two growling incidents (early on) that caused me to show them just where they, as dogs, are in the pack's order.  In the service, it was called, "Wall-to-Wall Counseling."  They can run off, but they can not growl or act aggressively to my boy (& daughter, once she gets old enough to interact with dogs).

For the dog to actually approach the child and bite it means that the dog sees the kid as something that he can exert dominance over, or play with. That is an amazingly dangerous situation and that kid and dog need to never be in the same building at the same time. Personally, I would put down any animal of mine that went after a child like that, but thats just me.

I agree on both points.  Such dogs, no matter the size, need to be kept where they can not interact with children.  In many cases, that place should be the big fire hydrant in the sky.

...then he took a section of my upper lip off another time, requiring plastic surgery.

My dad would still not put the dog down. So then it eventually went for my dads hand, requiring two reconstructive surgeries. His own blood getting spilled finally convinced him to put it down.

Un.  Effing.  Believeable.

I don't care if my dog tears into an intruder in the middle of the night, in my house.  Such behavior with a family member & its time for the Big Shot.

Your father is terrifically wrong to agree to one thing, and then defy your wishes about the dog in relation to your daughter. Parents usually think they know more than their kids (certainly they usually do) and that their kids just need to be shown that they were wrong.

Yep, my dad has a similar attitude on some subjects.  He "knows" better, even if I make my livlihood immersed in the subject matter.

Kids are more important than animals.

Amen, brother.

[gaston_45]

2nd chance? Only if you believe in doggie re-encarnation!  Little yappy dogs in general cannot be trusted but one that actively targets your kid needs to die quickly, your kid won't be the only one it will attack if given the chance.

[Mongo]

Okay, anecdote --- Mongo switched these roles when he was a toddler...

The story goes that I was taken to a home which had a very docile (must have been) Dalmation.  I apparently liked his spots and was poking them saying "fots" "fots".  Everything was fine till I poked the "fot" under the dog's tail...

They said the dog was never the same...

Oh and on subject, the dog won't change... Keep your daughter away.