Marijuana

[brimic]

I fall into the tax it and regulate it category.
As far as usage goes my attitude is "only dopes use dope."

[grampster]

The "War on Drugs" also gave us a SCOTUS stamped approval of the government confiscating all sorts of property because it "may" have been gotten using drug profits.
Many people have had property confiscated and then were found to have been innocent but unable to get their property back because it had been auctioned off, or mysteriously disappeared.  Many of the combined forces of various police agencies to war on pot growers and smokers are funded by proceeds from these siezures.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Justin]

He said that many of the guys in there were serving time for possession of an ounce or two of pot. That's just wrong.

Yeah.  They should have all been shot.  THAT would have made it right.

[The Rabbi]

He said that many of the guys in there were serving time for possession of an ounce or two of pot. That's just wrong.

Yeah.  They should have all been shot.  THAT would have made it right.

We can call it putting chlorine in the gene pool.  That would make it all right.

[Smith]

Rabbi, it's only a drug problem to YOU.

Can you tell me, from the religious point of view, why shooting drug dealers is ok?

[Guest]

If it were legal I would probably keep it around the house for occasional use and to offer guests...like I do with tobacco and alcohol.

[doczinn]

Making it legal would change nothing for me. I've never done it because I have no desire to do it.

[Antibubba]

I dabbled with it in high school, and it was enjoyable.  What made me stop was that I would never know the chain of events that brought it to me-where it was grown, how many hands it had passed through, what other crap had been put into it...

If it were legal, I'd probably keep a little in the house.  I have a bottle of Vicodin, and when I get the rare migraine, I take one.  I don't see myself abusing the THC, either

[Standing Wolf]

Stinks.

[Jamisjockey]

Paint me a libertarian.  I don't personally think its wise to puff a doobie, but if someone does, have at it. As long as thier smoking doesn't directly violate my rights (like smoking and driving), have at it.
Decriminilizing drugs would save alot of money and allow our police to work at arresting real criminals, like murderers, rapeists, child molesters, and republicans.

[The Rabbi]

So I guess shooting people at the border because they want to come here to work hard and get ahead is OK.  After all, they are criminals.
But shooting people who spread disease, poverty and misery is a no-no because, well, that's Libertarian.

[Justin]

Blackburn, his real name's Frank Castle.

[Justin]

So I guess shooting people at the border because they want to come here to work hard and get ahead is OK.  After all, they are criminals.
But shooting people who spread disease, poverty and misery is a no-no because, well, that's Libertarian.

Where have libertarians advocated machine-gunning people at the border?

[Vodka7]

Nightfall:

If you still have that attitude when you're old enough to run, I will gladly vote for you for President.

As for smoking it, I much prefer a marlboro menthol and a glass with a smooth brown liquid poured over ice.  I wouldn't recommend it to a friend, but if a friend were interested, I wouldn't dissuade him either--I'm a firm believer that you should try anything that interests you at least once, and probably some things that don't interest you as well.

[K Frame]

Brownies, anyone?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I've lost a few friends to drug abuse over the years.  I've seen what can happen, at it is NOT pretty.  It is literally a fate worse than death.  So I can sympathize with the folks who think drugs are a scourge upon society and should be outlawed.

In theory, I agree with the libertarians.  If you wanna ruin your life (and your family, your friends, and perhaps your business/neighbors/community) with drugs, then that's your business.  I agree that the criminalization of drugs has caused as many problems as its solved.

But at the same time, I suspect that the criminalization of drugs has done a lot of good for a lot of folks over the years.  Not that it's the govermnent's job to save anyone from their own stupidity and misery, but still...  It's damn hard to think that someone you really care about would be better off dead, and that the drugs that made her that way should be unrestricted.

There are plenty of things in this world that trouble me more than the fact that drugs are illegal.

[Strings]

>As for pot,  growing and using ought to be de-criminalized.   Those who wish to consume would be able to grow their own and consume on their own or friends private property.  Should be a civil infraction to transport or to sell.  You get caught driving under the influence, or otherwise causing a disturbance (like falling asleep in midstep) you get your pee pee wacked just like you do with alcohol infractions.<

 THE best way of handling it, I think.

 Those who want to use are going to, no matter what. Legalizing and taxing will cut crime...

[Guest]

Im not a huge fan of habitual recreational drug users. However, the war on drugs has been the vehicle for the clear majority of civil rights violations in this country, not to mention the increased militirization of our police, I find these things to be far more distasteful.

As far as marijuana, I have used it when in school, just like damn near everyone else. I found that the experience was more enjoyable than alcohol with fewer negative consequences. Were it not for our cultural taboos and laws I would seriously consider grass to be a legitimate, and even prefferable alternative to alcohol. Of course we do have taboos and laws, so I havent smoked since I was in my teens.


I find it interesting that nearly all of the drugs available today were available in Victorian England, without restriction. They didnt seem to destroy that nation, and I dont see why they would destroy this one either.

[HForrest]

Take bourbon.  It is an all-American spirit.  It was invented here and we are still the only producers.  Each brand has its own history, its own recipe, and its own taste.  Visiting a distillary is a fun experience and talking with a bourbon devotee is like talking to someone into classical music.  An entire vocabulary.  There is a famous bourbon festival in Bardstown once  a year and it is quite an event.  The color, smell, taste and alcohol content all vary and all add to the experience.  Even if there were no alcohol in Bourbon I would still drink it.
Only a philistine could compare an experience like that with sitting around a stinky bong getting stoned and listening to Alice in Chains.

That's entirely subjective. You're just creating a stereotypical, biased image of marijuana. You don't even know what you're talking about.

But they don't have a drug problem there.

I'm sure we could eliminate almost all recreational drug use by turning the United States into a communist dictatorship. Is that what you're advocating?

But shooting people who spread disease, poverty and misery is a no-no because, well, that's Libertarian.

Please explain to me how marijuana dealers spread diesease, poverty, and misery- without using biased anecdotal evidence or your ill-informed, misconceived notions.

[HForrest]

I found that the experience was more enjoyable than alcohol with fewer negative consequences.

Exactly.

Alcohol ruins far more lives, and is far more dangerous, than marijuana. Should the President of Jack Daniels be shot?

Consequences of heavy use...

Marijuana:
Immediate:
-Lethargy.

Long-term:
-Lack of motivation and effort in general over time.
-Possible lung damage over extended period of time.

Alcohol
Immediate:
-Alcohol poisoning; can result in death/coma.
-Extreme impairment, moreso than marijuana.
-Inhibitions diminished, moreso than marijuana.
-Agressive/violent behavior.

Long-term
-Irreversible liver damage accumulates over time.

[Firethorn]

Legalize it, Tax it, Regulate it.  It's the biggest source of criminal problems in the states today.

How soon we forget.  Taxing something heavily tends to create a black market.

Government control of commodities through taxation and prohibition is what creates black markets.  For example, just look at all the cigarette smuggling caused by taxation to achieve social engineering.

I didn't say to tax it heavily.  Maybe I should of said 'Treat it like Alcohol and Tobacco'.   You can have a several hundred percent tax on cigarettes, and the tobacco companies still make money, and there's still not a lot of big smuggling operation going on.  Most smuggling involves state borders and state taxes.  Of course, you know this.  Thing is, they're still shipping commercial product, which should at least be safer.

Same with Alchohol, there's just not that much illegal production going on.  It's not that difficult to get a license.

By regulate it, I meant, that in order to sell it, it has to meet a certain amount of safety requirements and the THC level has to be on the package.  It's illegal to sell/provide to those under 18/21.  Want to grow your own?  Fine, you can even share with friends.  Just can't go over XX pounds of actual product a year.  You'd have to work to keep the feds from trying to weight the entire plant, sometimes even the pot it's planted in.

As for driving under the influence you have the problem that, despite the television commercials, stoners have tested as better drivers while high.  They're less aggressive. (The commercials tried to make them out as totally unattentive, running into a kid pulling out of a drivethrough-more like alcohol).

[Art Eatman]

Health:  The numbers are that tobacco and alcohol create problems that are causative in some 400,000 deaths per year, each.  The only number I've ever read--and although it was some years back, it was at a time when the alcohol/tobacco numbers were similar to the above--is 30,000 deaths related to drugs.

Deaths from drug-related crimes are not all that high, as the US total for all reasons is around 50K per year.  Lotsa publicity, though.

If you're past mellow in smoking pot, I guarantee you that driving is an extremely difficult chore.  If you can keep your speed all the way up to legal, it's hard to concentrate on staying in your lane.  If you work hard at staying in your lane, it's hard to remember to push on the gas pedal.  Why do you think so many traffic stops result in a marijuana bust?  The guy was doing 15mph in a 40mph zone!  Dang car idles 15mph!

FWIW, the old days' 15-mg spansule of time-release Dexedrine was much better than a line of cocaine for being able to stay awake at a party.  Much better.  No rush, true, but you can get as much rush as you need from beer, bourbon and more importanly, some Sweet Young Thing.  And if the party isn't all that great, you can go on to bed and actually go to sleep.  Your little eyelids don't go Sproink! and stay open whether you want them to or not.

Oh well.  The sun's not even up, yet, and I already have quail on my porch...

, Art

[The Rabbi]

Health:  The numbers are that tobacco and alcohol create problems that are causative in some 400,000 deaths per year, each.  The only number I've ever read--and although it was some years back, it was at a time when the alcohol/tobacco numbers were similar to the above--is 30,000 deaths related to drugs.

Deaths from drug-related crimes are not all that high, as the US total for all reasons is around 50K per year.  Lotsa publicity, though.

Art, those arent very revealing statistics.  You would have to put it in the context of overall usage or something.  I agree (and it is obvious) that alcohol/tobacco cause a lot of deaths.  So do car accidents.  But taken in isolation those are pretty meaningless as a measure of danger.  My recollection is that marijuana smoke contains as much tar (or more) as cigarettes.  Of course smoking patterns are different as well.

Rabbi, were your parents killed by dope-fiends or something?

No, Blackburn, they weren't.  Were your parents drug dealers or dope fiends?

[tyme]

I'm sorry, what was the question?

I started to ponder the question, but then I noticed I was hungry.

I'm with Antibubba, except I didn't try pot in HS.  I'd try a whole lot of drugs if I could be assured they were pure, or at least if I knew what they were cut with and by how much.  Street-bought drugs scare me.

[Firethorn]

Art, those arent very revealing statistics.  You would have to put it in the context of overall usage or something.  I agree (and it is obvious) that alcohol/tobacco cause a lot of deaths.  So do car accidents.  But taken in isolation those are pretty meaningless as a measure of danger.  My recollection is that marijuana smoke contains as much tar (or more) as cigarettes.  Of course smoking patterns are different as well.

Yeah, you'd have to look at usage patterns.  Unfortuantly, it's difficult to get an accurate estimate on illegal drug use.  Yes, a cigarette is about equally dangerous whether you put tobacco or mj in it.  Difference is that you'd smoke less mj.  You also have more water-bongs and such, which are superior filterers than cig filters.

Personally, I'd legalize the stuff, make driving/operating heavy equipment while on it illegal, with european style penalties(yes you can get prison terms for DUI).  Being high on a drug, any drug, is not an excuse for doing something else illegal unless you were doped unknowingly or against your will, in which case the person who drugged you is the guilty party, with assault tacked on.