Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: WLJ on April 29, 2022, 09:35:45 AM
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American tourists find an unexploded shell in the Golan Heights and decide to bring it with them to the airport. You can guess what happens next.
Video of the panic https://twitter.com/kann_news/status/1519758269560070144
What I find interesting is how well the Israeli authorities took it and sent them on their way. Without the shell of course
Israel airport chaos as family brings unexploded shell
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-61267265
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Why is everyone screaming and running?
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Why is everyone screaming and running?
In the news link
The official ordered her immediate vicinity to be cleared, but another passenger who misheard her started shouting "terrorists shooting", triggering mass panic, the site said.
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There's unexploded ordnance (UXO) all over the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance
There's a target ship in Chesapeake Bay which probaby has a bunch of duds buried in it.
(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/usns-american-mariner-target-ship-chesapeake-bay-greg-hager.jpg)
Note the lookouts standing by the prow. =D
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=CHESAPEAKE+BAY+TARGET+SHIP&hps=1&ia=web
I understand but cannot document at this point that people are still finding UXOs in U.S. civil war battlegrounds and that some people have been killed trying to deactivate them for souvenirs. Simple: drill a 1/2" hole in them, dump out the powder, and presto-change-o! $300 in my pocket at the next antique sh
Hell of a way to ruin a perfectly good drill press.
Terry, 230RN
Pic credit in Properties
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. . .
I understand but cannot document at this point that people are still finding UXOs in U.S. civil war battlegrounds and that some people have been killed trying to deactivate them for souvenirs. Simple: drill a 1/2" hole in them, dump out the powder, and presto-change-o! $300 in my pocket at the next antique show . . .
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/140-yr-old-cannonball-kills-civil-war-fan/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/140-yr-old-cannonball-kills-civil-war-fan/)
I remember a father/son duo reported deactivating a cannon ball - IIRC, they drove it way out in the boonies, set up a drill press powered by a generator, and operated it by means of a LONG rope while behind cover. They got away with it - no explosion, black powder removed - but wrote they wouldn't do it again, since they eventually realized just how lucky they were to mess with it in the first place without triggering a BOOM.
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Bunch still in France and Belgium many of them chemical. Farmers routinely find them with their plows with tragic results far too often
Nearly 100 years since the conflict ended, an estimated 300 million unexploded bombs lie buried under farmland of Northern France and Belgium. As recently as March, two construction workers in Ypres died when a shell exploded.
Exclusive: The First World War bombs that are still killing people in France
Despite the First World War taking place 100 years ago, unexploded shells are still being found in France - and since the end of the war 360 people have been killed and 500 injured in the town of Ypres
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/first-world-war-bombs-still-3862370
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Every once in a while I think that in international conflicts, the two leaders should have to duke it out in a cage.
Either that, or use the old ten-paces-code-duello method.
But that would discourage people from entering politics in the first place....
...hmmmm....
...is that a bad thing, I wonder?
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Every once in a while I think that in international conflicts, the two leaders should have to duke it out in a cage.
Either that, or use the old ten-paces-code-duello method.
But that would discourage people from entering politics in the first place....
...hmmmm....
...is that a bad thing, I wonder?
Chuck Norris for President :P
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(https://c.tenor.com/IvxBm8k9QwkAAAAC/bugs-bunny-dud.gif)
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They should have put it in their checked luggage. No need to declare the value.
=)
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Every once in a while I think that in international conflicts, the two leaders should have to duke it out in a cage.
Either that, or use the old ten-paces-code-duello method.
But that would discourage people from entering politics in the first place....
...hmmmm....
...is that a bad thing, I wonder?
Always good.
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Every once in a while I think that in international conflicts, the two leaders should have to duke it out in a cage.
Here is the previous President of Mongolia (right)... I'm betting on him:
(https://mma.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/20043607_1200x1000_01.png)
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I grew up in Lawton, OK. The home of Ft. Sill, the US Army Field Artillery Center. Every few years we would have half a house or a garage get blown up. Mainly by kids, like me that scoured the impact area and bivouac areas on days they weren't shooting looking for interesting things to take home and play with. I would find various rifle rounds, magazines and other stuff that were dropped out there. Our biggest (and by far best) find was a LAWS tube that was a little bit heavier than a expended one. No, we did not turn it in. We didn't blow up a house either so all was good.
bob
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What if it had made it on a plane and exploded taking down the plane? Everyone would have assumed terrorism. Some Palestinian outfit would have declared they were responsible. It would have been a big mess.
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Here is the previous President of Mongolia (right)... I'm betting on him:
(https://mma.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/20043607_1200x1000_01.png)
Russia is lucky he's not president of Ukraine. Hulk smash tank!
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In response to Terry's observation about Civil War shells killing collectors, yeah. It's happened. Even really experienced ones who know what they're doing.
Sam White was a VERY experienced collector who knew what he was doing, had the right rig for deactivating shells, and still died.
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/90344025
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I had a .303 Enfield round that had a cracked neck and the projectile was easy to remove with my fingers. The round was an Incendiary round and I thought, for just a minute, about reloading it in another casing but noped out of that pretty quickly after having the thought.
Looked like these:
(https://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/aoe276/BIVTrade.jpg)
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I am semi familiar with deactivated shells and I have come on a few in antique stores that had no visible clue that they were deactivated. Yeah, just leave.
I went to bum a 20mm can off the CIWS crew and there rolling around were some loose electric primed 20mm. Want no parts of the stuff.
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I am semi familiar with deactivated shells and I have come on a few in antique stores that had no visible clue that they were deactivated. Yeah, just leave.
I went to bum a 20mm can off the CIWS crew and there rolling around were some loose electric primed 20mm. Want no parts of the stuff.
Ordinary small arms ammo is one thing, but I know enough about larger ordnance to know that I want nothing to do with "dud" artillery rounds or old souvenir "bringback" cannon shells, bazooka rockets, grenades, or anything else of the sort.
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I recall reading about a fuse (Munroe fuse?) with a heavy ball in it arranged so that no matter how it impacted, frontwise or sideways, whatever, it would drive the firing mechanism.
I think this Munroe guy was the one who discovered the shaped charge effect. As I remember it, they were timing detonating fuse or something and laid it in a circle on a steel plate and set it off. The detonation would travel around the "string" in both directions and where the blast waves met, they would cut a deep gash in the underlying steel plate.
I may have that name wrong. There was also the guy who invented the centrifugal machine gun whose name was Munroe. I think.
Maybe Munroe was just the last name of an old GF of mine which stuck in my mind. Or something. I know, I know, I'm starting to sound like Grandpa Simpson.
It's just that my reference works are not immediately to hand.
Nap time.
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"I think this Munroe guy was the one who discovered the shaped charge effect. As I remember it, they were timing detonating fuse or something and laid it in a circle on a steel plate and set it off. The detonation would travel around the "string" in both directions and where the blast waves met, they would cut a deep gash in the underlying steel plate."
Charles Munroe. It's named after him, but the concept was known 100 years before he "discovered" it.
Not sure if he had anything to do with artillery fuses or not; he was a chemist by education and profession, so designing fuses seems to be a bit out of his wheelhouse.
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Ah, Moore was the guy who developed the centrifugal machine gun to an almost-practical level of usefulness. Similarish name.
https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/168024098304/moores-centrifugal-machine-gun-in-june-1918
It worked like a centrifugal water pump, except you supplied ball ammunition at the center instead of water, and it "pumped" them out in a given direction in a continuous stream.
On the fuse, my mind is being tickled with the idea that it was a British development. I have the diagram of it in my head, and it was basically a heavy ball resting in a cup-shaped firing pin with sloping sides, so that even with a sidewise impact, the ball would drive the firing pin into the percussive substance. It was intended to be in the rear of the projectile.
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Ah, Moore was the guy who developed the centrifugal machine gun to an almost-practical level of usefulness. Similarish name.
https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/168024098304/moores-centrifugal-machine-gun-in-june-1918
It worked like a centrifugal water pump, except you supplied ball ammunition at the center instead of water, and it "pumped" them out in a given direction in a continuous stream.
On the fuse, my mind is being tickled with the idea that it was a British development. I have the diagram of it in my head, and it was basically a heavy ball resting in a cup-shaped firing pin with sloping sides, so that even with a sidewise impact, the ball would drive the firing pin into the percussive substance. It was intended to be in the rear of the projectile.
Wouldn't a centrifugal machine gun completely sidestep firearms regulations?
Hmmm . . . if the projectiles were barely subsonic, it could be really quiet . . . and with no muzzle flash, it would be a device which might be useful during the next BLM/Antifa riot. Rubber projectiles would be "less lethal" and useful in dispersing a mob, while solid metal projectiles could be used if things got really bad. >:D
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^ "Wouldn't a centrifugal machine gun completely sidestep firearms regulations?"
Pending legal analysis by fair-minded legal minds, it looks like it might slip through ATF-type regulations. But (A) many municipalities, for example, define even slingshots as firearms, and (B) so did "bump-fire" stocks.
The main problem with the concept was the (energy ÷ time = power) power to run it. It required a separate bulky and heavy generator --not exactly a "walking fire" proposition.
The US Army once figured it took 300 foot-pounds to produce a disabling wound so that was the approximate minimum energy required for each ball from either the velocity squared or the weight of the projectile, or both. I once calculated the power required to propel a .22 long rifle bullet and it was about 155 horsepower, so there you go right there. *
It's hard to beat nitrates for (energy ÷ time = power) power density unless you go nuclear or pre-compress the propellant fluid or look at percussive materials like azides or styphnates and the like.
This, apart from accuracy problems, but I figure it was one of those "let's try it, who knows, in development, something interesting might show up," as in the magnetic artillery experiments. "And besides, we've got a budget to burn up."
Terry. 230RN
(I'm aware of the magnetic launchers/catapults being tested on aircraft carriers.)
* Check me on that. 1200 f/s, 22 inch barrel, 131 ft lb of energy. Barrel time = 0.00153 seconds, so 85,621 foot pounds per second, divided by 550 to get horsepower, = 155.7 hp. Correct?
But a more likely transit time of 2.5 milliseconds yields 95.3 hp.
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Mark Felton just put up this video
Something Nasty in the Attic - WW2 German Incendiary Bombs 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL42s_onPMU
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Wouldn't a centrifugal machine gun completely sidestep firearms regulations?
Yes!
It was the size of a cart and was horribly inaccurate if I remember correctly.