Author Topic: I found one more reason Palin is awesome  (Read 17429 times)

Harold Tuttle

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2008, 08:55:56 PM »
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

roo_ster

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2008, 06:17:27 PM »
Actually, it has, but you're using that same "I don't understand what transition is so I'll disbelieve it la la la" excuse used by that Florida "museum" that shows people riding dinosaurs.

I can't continue any sort of conversation there, because you're simply disbelieving things that have been proven beyond a doubt in countless laboratories.

And there's nothing more to say there. Believe what you wish. Reality is that which, regardless of whether you believe it exists or not, continues to exist.

Uh, laboratories have nothing to do with empirical data and how it does not support evolution as currently promulgated.

The fossil record is as Balog states.  Not just incomplete, but lacking the transitional critters one would expect in a continuous, gradual evolution.  The fossil record supports a sort of quantum evolution, not the gradual evolution peddled by most.

Claiming, as was done in Darwin's time, that they had few fossils and that the gaps would be plugged in time is no longer an acceptable hand-waving technique to gloss over the lack of evidence supporting evolution as a gradual process.

It seems the biologists cling to gradual evolution as a shield against religiously-motivated opponents who might use/abuse any admission that the present theory of evolution might have shortcomings.  That is too bad, because their fervor in support of a flawed theory looks to prejudice their assessment of the evidence. 

Similar such wrongheaded attitudes/paradigms/etc. stunted the progress of science in the past and is likely doing so now.










FWIW, I have no problem reconciling whichever theory of evolution that fits the evidence with my religious beliefs.  I only have room for one faith-based big idea in my psyche and gradual evolution is not it.

Also, I am not a fan of ID...for several reasons I can go into later.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2008, 06:10:54 AM »
It's about time we had a President or Vice President who tried to mandate that six-day creationism be taught in public schools.  Along with a flat-earth, a geocentric universe, and dinosaur bones are only there to test our faith. 

Maybe then the left would finally realize that fed.gov has no business meddling in education. 
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longeyes

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dinosaurs rule the earth...at least in Chicago
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2008, 06:39:50 AM »
Man isn't the center of the universe, the Democratic Party is.

We've had tatts, then piercings; time for flatheads for a flat universe.  I think a flat universe is good for our energy problems; it's much easier to travel on a flat surface. 
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Tallpine

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Re: dinosaurs rule the earth...at least in Chicago
« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2008, 06:56:30 AM »
Man isn't the center of the universe, the Democratic Party is.

We've had tatts, then piercings; time for flatheads for a flat universe.  I think a flat universe is good for our energy problems; it's much easier to travel on a flat surface. 

Actually, it's much easier to travel downhill.

If the Democrats really wanted to solve our energy problems, they would pass legislation requiring all roads to be downhill roads. Wink

OTOH, if Obama is elected, then allegorically speaking they will achieve that  angry
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

longeyes

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2008, 08:52:40 AM »
I'm glad the Left is all het up about pseudo-science.

They're right.  It's time to show the door to Marxism, Anthropogenic Globalwarmingism, and Secular Humanism.

Creationism isn't our biggest worry, Recreationism is.  We've bred a nation of escapists.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2008, 09:17:08 AM »
I'm glad the Left is all het up about pseudo-science.

They're right.  It's time to show the door to Marxism, Anthropogenic Globalwarmingism, and Secular Humanism.

Creationism isn't our biggest worry, Recreationism is.  We've bred a nation of escapists.

Your post was too long, so I stopped reading and went back to watching TV.
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Tallpine

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2008, 11:23:25 AM »
I'm glad the Left is all het up about pseudo-science.

They're right.  It's time to show the door to Marxism, Anthropogenic Globalwarmingism, and Secular Humanism.

Creationism isn't our biggest worry, Recreationism is.  We've bred a nation of escapists.

I'm sorry - I was out riding my horse when you posted.  Yippee-ti-yi-yo!

 grin
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

agricola

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2008, 12:21:23 AM »
Actually, it has, but you're using that same "I don't understand what transition is so I'll disbelieve it la la la" excuse used by that Florida "museum" that shows people riding dinosaurs.

I can't continue any sort of conversation there, because you're simply disbelieving things that have been proven beyond a doubt in countless laboratories.

And there's nothing more to say there. Believe what you wish. Reality is that which, regardless of whether you believe it exists or not, continues to exist.

Uh, laboratories have nothing to do with empirical data and how it does not support evolution as currently promulgated.

The fossil record is as Balog states.  Not just incomplete, but lacking the transitional critters one would expect in a continuous, gradual evolution.  The fossil record supports a sort of quantum evolution, not the gradual evolution peddled by most.

Claiming, as was done in Darwin's time, that they had few fossils and that the gaps would be plugged in time is no longer an acceptable hand-waving technique to gloss over the lack of evidence supporting evolution as a gradual process.

It seems the biologists cling to gradual evolution as a shield against religiously-motivated opponents who might use/abuse any admission that the present theory of evolution might have shortcomings.  That is too bad, because their fervor in support of a flawed theory looks to prejudice their assessment of the evidence. 

Similar such wrongheaded attitudes/paradigms/etc. stunted the progress of science in the past and is likely doing so now.










FWIW, I have no problem reconciling whichever theory of evolution that fits the evidence with my religious beliefs.  I only have room for one faith-based big idea in my psyche and gradual evolution is not it.

Also, I am not a fan of ID...for several reasons I can go into later.

Actually, there are lots of fossils that show a gradual evolution as well as lots that show what you describe as "quantum" evolution, and these often exist side-by-side (trilobites being the most obvious).

Its also worth pointing out that there is, and has been for at least the last fifteen years, a lively and ongoing debate as to whether gradualism, or "punctuated equlibria" (quantum) or a combination of the two is correct when viewing ancient evolutionary processes.  As far as I am aware, noone has been burnt / stoned to death / drowned as a result of these debates.

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mtnbkr

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2008, 02:00:17 AM »
Another thing to consider is whether or not there would be enough transitional creatures to leave much in the fossil record.  If they're transitional, that means they probably weren't around long, which means fewer opportunities for fossilized remains.

Chris

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2008, 07:14:42 AM »
Another thing to consider is whether or not there would be enough transitional creatures to leave much in the fossil record.  If they're transitional, that means they probably weren't around long, which means fewer opportunities for fossilized remains.

Chris

This ^^^ conception is one of long plateaus of stasis and short transition periods of change where the transitional critters go offstage to die. 

I might buy that, were there evidence to support it.  Thing is, for a change/mutation to be gradual, it must also be marginal, giving the critter only a very small advantage over his closest not-yet-evolved-as-he critter ancestors/contemporaries.

The theory as generally presented (of evolution) by most proponents is more a continuous process, which is inadequate to describe the evidence.

Quote from: agricola
Actually, there are lots of fossils that show a gradual evolution as well as lots that show what you describe as "quantum" evolution, and these often exist side-by-side (trilobites being the most obvious).

Its also worth pointing out that there is, and has been for at least the last fifteen years, a lively and ongoing debate as to whether gradualism, or "punctuated equlibria" (quantum) or a combination of the two is correct when viewing ancient evolutionary processes.  As far as I am aware, noone has been burnt / stoned to death / drowned as a result of these debates.

Hmm, interesting.  The last time I took a good, long look at the data was a few years back.  I'd be interested in a primer on this sub-topic.

Also, the intolerance is generally not between those on the "same page in the hymnal," but between outsiders (attitude-wise) who do not accept the evolution dogma as presented and the insiders who defend the theory versus all outside inquiry, no matter how valid.  Some folks are just not willing to say, "I don't know for sure and the facts could support either conclusion."

Too much intellectual arrogance masquerading as rational empiricism.
Regards,

roo_ster

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agricola

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Re: I found one more reason Palin is awesome
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2008, 07:22:49 AM »
jfruser,

Try "Invertebrate Palaeontology and Evolution", which is on Google Books.
"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
"Make peace, you fools"