Post by: grampster on October 03, 2008, 04:44:13 AM
The second best, loosely quoted: Joe Biden, when asked about his worst quality, his proclivity to sound off..."I'm who I am, everybody knows who I am and and look, I'm not going to change...then he went to babble about how Obama and he were all about change.
I also liked how Gov. Palin talked about how Biden/Obama/Democrats are always looking back and how she is looking forward.
In my opinion, we saw a distinct difference between a bright, experienced Washington bureaucrat spinning and twisting, nuancing and bragging about his many years wallowing in the swamp and a down home populist who sits around eating chicken salad sandwiches in the kitchen and having fun fartzing with the powers that be and the status quo, who has a lot of ability. I think it's time we elevate a few amateurs. The best and the brightest have crapped in our bed. I'll take ability over experience in government.
I also liked how she confronted questions that she didn't want to get trapped into dealing with by directly saying, loosely quoted, 'I'm not really gonna talk about that, let me just tell you some more about me and what I think about things that I bring as a strength to the ticket.' The implication, if anyone was thinking about it, was that 'I know what I know, I can do what I can do...the rest of it I'll get up to speed, watch me.'
PS: I just love the networks parading the dumbest people in America across the world stage; The Undecideds. What a bunch of dolts. Proof positive about the contempt so called news people have for our collective American intelligence. The scary thing is these people decide elections.
__________________
Post by: MrRezister on October 03, 2008, 05:02:46 AM
The best and the brightest have crapped in our bed.
I never thought to blame Biden for that. It seems so obvious now that you mention it though....
*washes sheets
Palin seemed likable, but evasive. Neither one really impressed me here. Or, in Mainstream Medianese:
"JOE BIDEN VERBALLY KILLED MCCAIN/PALIN. THEY ARE DEAD. ALL HAIL THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE!!!"
Quote
I never thought to blame Biden for that. It seems so obvious now that you mention it though....
*washes sheets
Palin seemed likable, but evasive. Neither one really impressed me here. Or, in Mainstream Medianese:
"JOE BIDEN VERBALLY KILLED MCCAIN/PALIN. THEY ARE DEAD. ALL HAIL THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE!!!"
Post by: longeyes on October 03, 2008, 05:37:18 AM
Post by: grampster on October 03, 2008, 06:02:29 AM
That omission by the R's has been glaring. It has to be a deliberate ploy, and I think a wrong one. McCain is trying to show he's a nice guy in that regard and it is going to cost him the election.
McCain's mistake in not laying the historical foundation is that America wants to hear him say it, it can be done in a way that is frank, but points us toward the future. It needs to be said. Because Gov. Palin did not say it, tells me that she was told not to. That was and is a mistake.
Post by: Manedwolf on October 03, 2008, 06:07:32 AM
Funny, that would be Gaza. Did the media catch that at all?
Post by: HankB on October 03, 2008, 06:18:50 AM
That omission by the R's has been glaring. It has to be a deliberate ploy, and I think a wrong one. McCain is trying to show he's a nice guy in that regard and it is going to cost him the election.
The GOP has a tendency to not go after the enemy when they should - Ann Coulter once said that she doesn't expect the GOP to become shrieking lunatics like Howard Dean, but she'd really like them to act like men for a change. (This was before Sarah.) Then, as they're cleaning out their desks and moving out, they GOP politicians who got the boot can pat themselves on the back and congratulate each other about how they campaigned as gentlemen enroute to losing the election.
Post by: ronnyreagan on October 03, 2008, 06:53:04 AM
"There you go again...Say it ain't so, Joe." ( Sarah Palin.)
I didn't really care for that line - it sounded to me like it was told to her well before the debate, and she spit it out rather awkwardly. I also think she overdid the folksy talking crap. She should have cut back on the "you bechta" and "Dontchaknow" and all that - it looked forced and was harder to listen to than Fargo. I'm sure she has an accent and all that, but it was over the top. I wish the GOP would stop pandering to idiots.
I believe that people saw what they wanted to in that debate (as in most things.) I viewed her as a dunce before, and she still appeared that way although better coached than in previous interviews. I was surprised that she mispronounced fewer words than Biden, but she rambled worse than he did.
I think it's time we elevate a few amateurs.
I disagree. Do you get your car repaired by amateurs? Do you try to find the least experienced doctor to get his "outsider" opinion? Do you think we should get some amateurs leading the military in Iraq because the experts are always wrong or corrupt? Why do you want "a few amateurs" dealing with nuclear Pakistan, North Korea, Iran, or any number of issues we are currently facing? You can complain about corruption in Washington and I'll agree that there's a lot of entrenched bureaucrats that need to go, but they need to be replaced with competent, intelligent, individuals. Given the opportunity why choose an amateur over an expert? Post by: Boomhauer on October 03, 2008, 06:58:26 AM
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She should have cut back on the "you bechta" and "Dontchaknow" and all that - it looked forced and was harder to listen to than Fargo. I'm sure she has an accent and all that, but it was over the top. I wish the GOP would stop pandering to idiots.
I believe that people saw what they wanted to in that debate (as in most things.) I viewed her as a dunce before, and she still appeared that way although better coached than in previous interviews.
I believe that people saw what they wanted to in that debate (as in most things.) I viewed her as a dunce before, and she still appeared that way although better coached than in previous interviews.
Don't make the mistake that many do and assume a person is stupid because of the way they talk. Northerners and others frequently stereotype Southerners as stupid because of the way we talk.
Post by: Manedwolf on October 03, 2008, 07:02:05 AM
I didn't really care for that line - it sounded to me like it was told to her well before the debate, and she spit it out rather awkwardly. I also think she overdid the folksy talking crap. She should have cut back on the "you bechta" and "Dontchaknow" and all that - it looked forced and was harder to listen to than Fargo. I'm sure she has an accent and all that, but it was over the top. I wish the GOP would stop pandering to idiots.
So a whole hell of a lot of people I've met from Minnesota and Wisconsin WHO REALLY TALK LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME are idiots?
Nice.
Oh, yeah. They probably cling to guns and religion, too. Elitist much?
Post by: ronnyreagan on October 03, 2008, 07:03:11 AM
So a whole hell of a lot of people I've met from Minnesota and Wisconsin WHO REALLY TALK LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME are idiots?
Nice.
Oh, yeah. They probably cling to guns and religion, too. Elitist much?
Sorry, but I was born in Wisconsin and have lived here my entire life. She sounded fake.
Post by: Manedwolf on October 03, 2008, 07:05:08 AM
Some people have strong regional accents and colloquialisms. You make fun of that, you alienate people.
Post by: ronnyreagan on October 03, 2008, 07:06:14 AM
Post by: Rudy Kohn on October 03, 2008, 07:12:13 AM
...because they sure wouldn't be loaning anything to anyone, I guess.
All in all, Biden and Palin both managed to look pretty good, and I didn't really see any bias on Ms. Ifill's part. Biden spent too much time trying to fix blame, and Palin spent too much time going back to her energy policy. Though there were a couple of outrageous things, like the quote above, that Biden said, there were a few places where Palin just utterly failed to point out fundamental differences in their economic outlooks, which could have been quick answers with (I think) positive results.
As a McCain/Palin supporter, I wasn't left with the notion that Palin is brilliant, but I also don't think she looked stupid. Her policy certainly seemed better--at least, I didn't have as many "WTF?!" moments listening to her responses.
Post by: AZAndy on October 03, 2008, 07:15:13 AM
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I'm not making fun of it. I'm saying she layed it on way too thick in an obvious attempt to "relate." It's fine to have an accent when it's real, but to force it like she did is condescending.
Agreed. Not to mention that it would be really, really nice to have someone in the White House who doesn't deliberately mispronounce "nuclear." It may be that she isn't doing it deliberately (and if so, it demonstrates some basic ignorance on her part), but the current president certainly does.
Post by: ronnyreagan on October 03, 2008, 07:15:56 AM
I thought one of the best parts was when Biden said the government needs to be able to change the interest rates and principals of loans. My jaw hit the floor.
Agreed.I was amazed that he said that. I couldn't believe it at first.
Post by: Perd Hapley on October 03, 2008, 08:30:35 AM
I couldn't believe that the moderator was asking insane and/or useless questions like "What will it take to make you launch a nucular missile?" or "What is your greatest weakness?" or "What will your administration be like if the President croaks?"
I can't believe anyone cares how people pronounce "nuclear." For some reason, this is the one word we insist must be pronounced perfectly. No one cares if you stress the wrong syllable in "irrevocable," but heaven forbid you say "nucular." And the ONLY reason for that is that it was a cheap shot to make Bush look stupid.
It may be that she isn't doing it deliberately (and if so, it demonstrates some basic ignorance on her part)
More like an over-reaction on your part.
Post by: roo_ster on October 03, 2008, 09:11:54 AM
There is an entire nation of Englishmen who can throw similar rocks at our best-educated (not to mention our less-so) for pronouncing the Queen's English in a manner that does not meet with their approval.
Post by: AZAndy on October 03, 2008, 09:15:38 AM
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No one cares if you stress the wrong syllable in "irrevocable," but heaven forbid you say "nucular." And the ONLY reason for that is that it was a cheap shot to make Bush look stupid.
Nay, the President is perfectly capable of pronouncing the word correctly; he did so in his speech in England. I assume that he mispronounces it in his own country in order to seem more down-home. Just makes me wonder if Governor Palin does it because she doesn't know any better, or if she thinks it makes her seem more "average Joe."
That said, President Carter also said the word that way, and he was an actual nuclear engineer. Go figure.
Post by: longeyes on October 03, 2008, 09:16:01 AM
Haven't they been watching "Survivor?"
I suggest we take all four and see if they can run a small town. Put it all on video. Should be, well, amusing.
Post by: Manedwolf on October 03, 2008, 09:24:34 AM
Only supercilious twits get their panties in a wad over regional accents.
There is an entire nation of Englishmen who can throw similar rocks at our best-educated (not to mention our less-so) for pronouncing the Queen's English in a manner that does not meet with their approval.
There is an entire nation of Englishmen who can throw similar rocks at our best-educated (not to mention our less-so) for pronouncing the Queen's English in a manner that does not meet with their approval.
Well, not really. When you hear foreign correspondents from the UK, you're hearing the Oxford sorts.
You never hear the Brummie "Oy quoit loik it" accent, or the utterly impenetrable East End London sorts.
Post by: Paragon on October 03, 2008, 09:25:46 AM
I thought one of the best parts was when Biden said the government needs to be able to change the interest rates and principals of loans. My jaw hit the floor.
Agreed.I was amazed that he said that. I couldn't believe it at first.
I had to check with my wife to make sure I heard that right. I think I'm going to vote D this year so I can change the principle on my home loan! I'm thinking of dropping it to around $5, how's that sound? Congress will just pass a bill to cover the rest, right?
Post by: longeyes on October 03, 2008, 10:44:04 AM
At least it used to be. Until today.
***
As someone observed, this bill is a back-door reparations package.
Post by: ctdonath on October 03, 2008, 11:01:52 AM
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Do you get your car repaired by amateurs? ... Given the opportunity why choose an amateur over an expert?
It's surprising how good a job "amateurs" can do vs. the alleged "experts": all too often the amateur has the passion & knowledge & experience to do it right, and the expert is deemed such only because he gets paid. I do my own car repairs when I can, and frankly prefer a friend-of-a-friend do the work in his back yard than take it to a "professional" shop where my wallet will hemmohrage over what is really pretty straighforward stuff. ...don't get me wrong, though, when it was _me_ getting the recall repair job (artificial heart valve) I wanted the most expensive & egotistical professional in the southeast 
. Your point is valid IF the expert really is one in the canonical sense. Problem in this context is that we ARE elevating amateurs to {V}POTUS status. BHO has little experience beyond "community organizing", Biden & McCain are longtime senators but have little executive experience, and the only one with real applicable professional experience (Palin) is derided loudly as not having nearly enough. The Founding Fathers wanted amateurs to run the country, to do the work with passion then go home to their real jobs; the professionals are too darned good at emptying the treasury.
Post by: Halo on October 03, 2008, 11:02:10 AM
Palin was clearly in over her head on matters of foreign and economic policy, there were just too many non-answers to convince me that she has a full grasp of those issues. But I am less concerned about her lack of experience than I am Obama's, after all she is not running for the top post like he is. What she did convince me of is that she does have the wherewithal to master those issues as she becomes more involved in national politics.
I don't really like the folksy informal language either, not from people seeking high office -- call me an elitist if you want. In her defense though she was probably told to lay it on, since a large segment of the population is, frankly, anti-intellectual. The Democrats do this too, like when Michelle Obama gave that speech where she conspicuously kept saying "Barack and me" and when Kerry did the "where can I get me a huntin' license?" thing for the camera.
I'll vote for Palin, in spite of these things I do have an overall positive opinion of her. Besides, it's not like I can even entertain voting for the other side.
Post by: MechAg94 on October 03, 2008, 11:10:44 AM
Honestly, I don't care if a candidate studders, if he knows the job and will make good decisions why wouldn't he be a good choice? It seems to me that voting for smooth talkers is what has gotten us to this point.
Try to take a minute to look past the nice words and smooth talking and listen to the content. Smooth talkers should be reading the news and doing commercials, not leading the country.
Post by: RoadKingLarry on October 03, 2008, 11:10:54 AM
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No one cares if you stress the wrong syllable in "irrevocable," but heaven forbid you say "nucular." And the ONLY reason for that is that it was a cheap shot to make Bush look stupid.
Nay, the President is perfectly capable of pronouncing the word correctly; he did so in his speech in England. I assume that he mispronounces it in his own country in order to seem more down-home. Just makes me wonder if Governor Palin does it because she doesn't know any better, or if she thinks it makes her seem more "average Joe."
That said, President Carter also said the word that way, and he was an actual nuclear engineer. Go figure.
Actually, carter was a nuclear trained submarine engineering officer, He may well have a degree in nuclear engineering but it is not the same thing - ET1(ss) Roadking Larry
Post by: anygunanywhere on October 03, 2008, 11:47:17 AM
Actually, carter was a nuclear trained submarine engineering officer, He may well have a degree in nuclear engineering but it is not the same thing - ET1(SS) Roadking Larry
Fixed it for ya, Roadking.
Anygunanywhere STS1(SS)
Post by: Perd Hapley on October 03, 2008, 01:52:32 PM
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No one cares if you stress the wrong syllable in "irrevocable," but heaven forbid you say "nucular." And the ONLY reason for that is that it was a cheap shot to make Bush look stupid.
Nay, the President is perfectly capable of pronouncing the word correctly; he did so in his speech in England. I assume that he mispronounces it in his own country in order to seem more down-home. Just makes me wonder if Governor Palin does it because she doesn't know any better, or if she thinks it makes her seem more "average Joe."
That said, President Carter also said the word that way, and he was an actual nuclear engineer. Go figure.
I've actually heard that "nucular" is some kind of shibboleth among some group of people, but I can't remember who they were supposed to be. I don't know how it would make anyone seem more folksy. If the hicks and the Joe Sixpacks are all saying it that way, I've never noticed it.
I'm not making fun of it. I'm saying she layed it on way too thick in an obvious attempt to "relate." It's fine to have an accent when it's real, but to force it like she did is condescending.
Didn't sound forced to me. As a disclaimer, though, I listened to most of the debate in a crowded arena, where people kept clapping, so I only heard about 2/3 of what she said.
Post by: Monkeyleg on October 03, 2008, 01:59:51 PM
Nobody who is elected president has the instant qualifications to be president. Governors are more often elected because they have experience running a government rather than debating it. Alaska is not a huge state, but neither is Arkansas.
I'm extremely impressed with Palin's ability to get a handle on the issues as quickly as she has, and confidently go up against a seasoned political pro like Biden. If she can do this on such short notice, I'm sure she'll do fine if something happens to McCain. It's not knowing the details of amendment 5(a) to SB105 that matters, it's the way a person's views are shaped, and how he/she uses those views to articulate policy. On those points I think Palin is solid.
And it's true that McCain has to hit hard. He has two more chances to look Obama in the eye and tell him and the American public that Obama has been lying. It's time to call Obama for what he is: a self-absorbed socialist charlatan who will wreak havoc on the economy, on defense, and the future of this country.
Post by: GingerGuy on October 03, 2008, 02:14:11 PM
We need to unlease McCain and Palin and let them have at them....reduce our taxes, reduce spending and talk to us (the people) rather than the media. The world will still be there, while we straighten out some issues at home...
Post by: Scout26 on October 03, 2008, 05:26:14 PM
Post by: grampster on October 04, 2008, 09:12:29 PM
Getalong John will never do that. That is why he will lose.
God save the Republic, John isn't even trying. If he was the leader he claims to be, he'd dissect Obama and his left wing radicals in the Congress like a frog in a science class. He hasn't done any of that, probably because he's probably had his "bipartisan" hands in all the political pettifoggery that set this massive tsunami of economic meltdown in motion.