Author Topic: What will replace DVD?  (Read 4679 times)

Fly320s

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What will replace DVD?
« on: November 29, 2007, 09:25:21 AM »
The life of home video so far is this:

- Reel-to-reel film projected onto a screen.

- VHS and Betamax VCRs.  Also sort of a reel-to-reel.

- Laser Disc.  Short life span.

- DVD, which now includes the HD formats.

All of those formats need a player that uses moving parts.  Those players are usually fairly large, although they are shrinking, but the parts wear-out eventually.

So, what is next?  Are we moving towards memory cards, such as SD, that can hold a full-length HD-DVD movie?  How much memory is required for a typical two hour movie and the bonus material?

I think that we will get there fairly soon.  The price is droppping pretty quickly for flash-memory, so I imagine that eventually the price will be low enough to become a means to distribute video.  It may even be a better medium to prevent piracy.

What say you?
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Jamisjockey

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 09:26:49 AM »
I say digitial.  First it will be on some kind of data disk like an SD card, but eventually it will be straight to the TV/PC.
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Manedwolf

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 09:34:33 AM »
I believe SDcards only have about a 10 year life before data degradation.

I'd think three-dimensional optical might be nice. A clear plastic slip or cube with the data encoded in three dimensions, readable by multiaxis lasers. 

K Frame

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 09:37:48 AM »
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yesitsloaded

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 09:41:44 AM »
Dvd is just a storage medium for a file, which makes it different from a vcr. The DVD file can be transferred among different devices. I think that the current computer file idea will stay the same and that a television five years from now will be nothing more than a large computer monitor, actually thats what the 32 inch plasma in my dorm room is right now grin It as a cable hook up and is hooked up to a laptop with data files stored on the hard drive or run through a dvd player/cd drive.
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Bogie

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 09:50:16 AM »
Network. You have a virtual library, stored at a central hub. Virtually eliminates piracy.

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Brad Johnson

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2007, 10:01:34 AM »
Video-On-Demand

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wooderson

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2007, 10:03:54 AM »
Mark Cuban was big on the idea of packaging movies on solid-state memory for a while. Of course, he never tried to make it a retail strategy for his movie company, so maybe he decided it was flawed.

Downloading will be the future (with integration to your home theater), if bandwidth keeps up with the size of HD content. I have no interest in something like Amazon downloads or AppleTV right now, since quality isn't even up to DVD standards, and hooking it up the LCD would be a PITA. But gimme easily accessibly HD movies? I'm in.
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Manedwolf

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 10:47:20 AM »
Network. You have a virtual library, stored at a central hub. Virtually eliminates piracy.

Uhhh...no. If you see it or download it, you can pirate it. And streaming-only is automatic fail. Nobody wants to see a "rebuffering, please wait" in the middle of a movie.


Fly320s

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 11:01:08 AM »
And how does one "own" a copy of data that is stored somewhere else?

What do the people who don't want to be connected to anything do for movies?
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wooderson

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2007, 11:17:46 AM »
Not just buffering - there are cable/satellite/DSL/etc. outages every once in a while (in areas with the best service) that probably can't be avoided completely. So on the weekend when someone drove into the wrong pole and your DSL isn't functioning - whaddya do for a movie?
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2007, 11:27:32 AM »
They're trying to push us to digital subscription from a central publishing site.  Netflix has one iteration of it already.  Dish network has a micro-tivo to which you can download your recorded shows for viewing on the road.

I don't think either will ever fly though.  Storage solutions aren't fault tolerant and large enough to accomodate a typical end users' desire for a library of media.

Were I to digitize all my DVD's and put them on hard disk, I'd need over two terabytes.  A 5-disk RAID5 SATA system with 500GB drives will cost $1000 for the chassis, $200 for the SCSI interface card, and $200 per drive for a total cost of $2200.  And this media storage system has a bunch of drives spinning over 7000 RPMs and will wear themselves out in 3-5 years.

I have DVD's that are older than that.  I have furniture that held 100 VHS tapes that is now holding 300 DVD's.

As I sit now, if I buy new videos I just stick them on the shelf.  But, if I buy a subscription movie that I don't have room to store on my drive, I have to upgrade my entire drive system.

As I sit now, I can sell my DVD's to a used DVD/CD store and get other used DVD's/CD's.  I couldn't do that with a subscription-based media format.

Whatever the next iteration is, it will save space in peoples' homes.  DVD's take less room than VHS, which took less room the reel-to-reel.  I like the idea of 3-dimensional viewing cubes.  I could fit 600 of those on my same shelves.
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Iain

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2007, 11:36:57 AM »
Video-On-Demand

Brad
I vote for this too. Broadband is getting near the 'affordable streaming' point and on-demand services are already available via satellite and cable in the UK, no idea about you guys.

Either that or those really cool crystals you see in old films.
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Racehorse

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2007, 11:40:26 AM »
Video-On-Demand

Brad
I vote for this too. Broadband is getting near the 'affordable streaming' point and on-demand services are already available via satellite and cable in the UK, no idea about you guys.

Either that or those really cool crystals you see in old films.
+1

The quality of current on-demand offerings via Netflix and others is already pretty close to standard DVD. As connections get faster and more people get broadband, things will move toward streaming video and downloads.

Bogie

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2007, 11:52:30 AM »
Guys, disk space is CHEAP.

Around 1995, I thought it was purely incredible that I had a server with a gigabyte of hard drive on it for a project.
 
In 2007, 12 years later, I've got a couple of terabytes. I produce image files that are over a gig.
 
Ten years from now, things are gonna be downright scary.
 
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mtnbkr

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2007, 11:56:57 AM »
Guys, disk space is CHEAP.
Around 1995, I thought it was purely incredible that I had a server with a gigabyte of hard drive on it for a project.
In 2007, 12 years later, I've got a couple of terabytes. I produce image files that are over a gig.
Ten years from now, things are gonna be downright scary.

Yet we're still filling them up.  It's a losing battle.  I was perfectly ok with a 20megabyte HD in 1993.  I was comfortable with a couple hundred megs in 1996.  A few gigs was comfortable in 2000. 

Today, I have 6gig worth of scanned photos on my computer at home.  I don't even do the digital music or video thing and my 80gig HD is nearly half full.

As soon as there's a new breakthrough in storage technology, people will increase the quality of their digital media files to take advantage of it.  When terabyte drives become commonplace, folks will still be whining about full drives.

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Sindawe

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2007, 12:51:21 PM »
Quote
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Marnoot

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2007, 01:01:10 PM »
And how does one "own" a copy of data that is stored somewhere else?

That's exactly the point from RIAA & MPAA AKA The Industry's point of view. They've been saying all along that when you buy music/movie/etc., you don't own it, you just purchased rights to listen/watch it within their terms. You own the disk itself (plastic, metallic layer), but not the particular configuration of bits on that metallic layer.

Thus why I can't take the movie I paid money for and copy it to my hard drive without running afoul of the DMCA. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot. The tighter they try to squeeze us with copy restrictions etc., the more people go to pirated copies even if they would otherwise purchase because they're sick of draconian restrictions.

drewtam

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2007, 02:39:09 PM »
The tighter they try to squeeze us with copy restrictions etc., the more people go to pirated copies even if they would otherwise purchase because they're sick of draconian restrictions.

I haven't bought a CD or DVD in years because of this. They keep squeezing and squeezing. You don't make a successful business by fighting the customer. It doesn't matter if your morally or legally right or not; fighting the customer takes you nowhere but down.
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Mabs2

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2007, 05:03:08 PM »
I believe SDcards only have about a 10 year life before data degradation.

I'd think three-dimensional optical might be nice. A clear plastic slip or cube with the data encoded in three dimensions, readable by multiaxis lasers. 
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Manedwolf

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2007, 08:18:22 PM »
I believe SDcards only have about a 10 year life before data degradation.

I'd think three-dimensional optical might be nice. A clear plastic slip or cube with the data encoded in three dimensions, readable by multiaxis lasers. 
Sounds like Isolinear chips!

It's actually legit technology. Certain kinds of polymers could be "written" in three dimensions at the point where the X and Y lasers converge inside the block, and read the same way.

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2007, 08:52:00 PM »
I don't mind dvds, I like the size of them, they are easy to manipulate (I have some motor control issues at times) and they don't take up a lot of space. So I say keep dvds, just find ways to pack more and more on them. Instead of 2-4 eps of your favorite tv show per disc you would get the whole season.




Firethorn

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2007, 06:53:40 AM »
Yet we're still filling them up.  It's a losing battle.  I was perfectly ok with a 20megabyte HD in 1993.  I was comfortable with a couple hundred megs in 1996.  A few gigs was comfortable in 2000. 

Today, I have 6gig worth of scanned photos on my computer at home.  I don't even do the digital music or video thing and my 80gig HD is nearly half full.

Talk about behind the times.  I slapped a 500gig HD in my latest computer.  Wink

Quote
As soon as there's a new breakthrough in storage technology, people will increase the quality of their digital media files to take advantage of it.  When terabyte drives become commonplace, folks will still be whining about full drives.

In 1993 what did you keep on a computer HD?  Probably pretty much only applications and associated data files.  You could only keep a couple games installed.
In 1996 Games had gotten better, office applications were fancier and if you were bleeding edge you might be getting into digital music.
2000 - around what I'd consider the serious start of the MP3 craze.  A couple years later I was downloading anime of the internet.
2007 - I can get a 1TB drive for $340.  Or 2 500GB for $210(total).

I've been a member of webscription.net(DRM free ebooks) for years.  A book, on average, is less than half a meg compressed.  I couldn't read a TB worth of books in my life.

MP3?  256k would be about 2Meg/minute.  Or about 8 hours per gig.  8k hours on a terabyte storage array.  Or just short of a no-repeat YEAR of high quality audio, as 256k is double that of standard MP3s.

So text and audio are pretty much covered, on to video.

DVD is ~5Mbit/s for both audio and video.  That'd be 56 hours of video on a TB.  Please be aware though that DVD is MPEG-2 is a pretty lousy compression method today, such that by shifting to a more advanced codec you can easily stream superior quality HD content with the same bitrate.

Going off figuring for blueray discs and advanced codec, 160 hours of HD video can fit into a TB, or about 80 2 hour films.  If you don't like epics, I could see 100-120 easily.  Like music, after a certain point you start coming up against equipment limitations, and a bit beyond that you go beyond what our eyes are capable of.  So I don't see data rates taking off to much beyond this.  Increases in quality balanced against improvements in codecs.

If we stick to DVD+ quality with advanced codec, a 2mbit DSL link can just about stream.  If we figure this is the future, a 10mbit or even 100mbit link shouldn't be out of reach - So I could subscribe to a video equivalent to iTunes, purchase my movies from it, and download to my (theoretical at this point) multiterabyte array.  The system could intelligently dispose of lesser watched videos.  If I want to watch something that I've already purchased, current case would be to queue it up, and grab some popcorn or something while it's caching.  I could then start watching the show while it continues to download in the background.  While not as 'instant' as popping a DVD in, with a good internet connection it'd still beat driving to the store.  And you have the search capabilities and full library - not just what the store chooses to stock.

I don't know about you guys, but my multimedia library is getting uncontrollable.  At $10 average for a movie, CD, or book, I have almost a dozen bookcases worth of them collected over the years.  I get the urge to reread a book I last read two years ago, or want to reread a series, it can be a real hassle to find it.  With it on the computer, I can just do a search.

drewtam

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2007, 02:58:02 PM »
I don't know about you guys, but my multimedia library is getting uncontrollable.  At $10 average for a movie, CD, or book, I have almost a dozen bookcases worth of them collected over the years.  I get the urge to reread a book I last read two years ago, or want to reread a series, it can be a real hassle to find it.

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Firethorn

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Re: What will replace DVD?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 04:57:44 PM »
God Bless America.

Darn tooten...

Figure, 1 movie a month.  Over the course of 10 years, that's 120 movies.

Of course, I've averaged more than that.  More like two a month.  That's 240.  Of course I've been collecting longer than that.
Books now, I'm an addict, and started when I was 14.  I wouldn't be surprised if I have a thousand.
See what I mean by unmanageable?

I don't have the room for that many bookcases - not really, so a lot of it's in boxes. and my bookcases are overstuffed.

I'd love a download service.

And all of it could fit into a computer with $600 worth of HD space today.