Legality of covert audio recording?

[BrokenPaw]

One of the BrokenKids is having an issue with a kid in our neighborhood.  It seems that "Billy", who rides BK's bus and gets off at the same stop, has been bullying BK (and a couple of other kids).

Our first step is going to be to talk to Billy's parents directly, but I'm afraid that it'll play out like this:

Us: BillyMom, BrokenKid tells us that Billy has been doing "x".
BillyMom:  Billy, have you been doing "x"?
Billy: <innocence>Why, gosh, no, mom!</innocence>
BillyMom:  He says he's not doing it.  Also, we know he would never do it.  Your kid is probably a liar.

Granted, BK has been known to attempt to stretch the bounds of credulity from time to time, but he's actually pretty terrible at lying, so I believe him about Billy (some of Billy's behavior that I've witnessed backs up that conclusion).  So if BillyMom refuses to believe that her Precious Little Snowflake is actually a little bastard, I'd like to be able to back up the accusations.

BrokenKid has a little digital voice recorder thingummy, and I was pondering suggesting that he turn it on and put it in his pocket before he got off the bus tomorrow, so that there would be a record of what happened between the bus stop and home.  But what are the legal ramifications of having a recording device on one 12-year-old, recording the voices of himself and another 12-year-old? 

Thoughts?

-BP

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

legallity notwithstanding it might not help. we had viseo of a kid slapping a bus driver  clear video and momma still shreiked" its not my baby"

[roo_ster]

If it's not her baby, she won't mind if y'all take the little savage out back and beat the Devil out of him?

[Thor]

Different states have different laws in regards to recorded conversations.

[ilbob]

Different states have different laws in regards to recorded conversations.

In many states all parties to the conversation have to agree that it be recorded. In some states only one party needs to give permission.

[Bogie]

I'd go ahead and do it. He just "forgot" it was there, and then later when he got home, he discovered it was recording...
 
Tell the kid not to say a dang thing, other than the typical "don't hurt me" kinda stuff.
 

[Polishrifleman]

I don't think we are talking about lawyers and court we are talking about trying to provide information to a youth's parents so they can parent.  I don't think there is a law (not a lawyer) for recording wherever and whenever you want, it's how you use the recordings.  If your assumptions about the mother's response are true then I think you are out of luck with a recording or not.

[yesitsloaded]

Tell brokenkid to knock him on his but and teach him early that tyranny is not tolerated in this country. A ten day suspension from public school for defending himself might teach him several things. One of which being the stupidity of the system.

[Vodka7]

I'm with Polishrifleman--I don't think there are any laws about "wearing a wire" and recording a conversation in person.  At least, all the laws I could find on Google apply to telephone convos.

If you want to play it safe, though, the laws regarding telephone conversations can be found here: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states.html

In New York, where I used to live, only one party had to be aware that the convo was being taped.  In Pennsylvania, where I live now, everyone has to be aware that they're being taped.  However, "Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. ? 5702."  So here in PA, it would definitely be legal for your kid to tape Billy, given that they're on the street where anyone else at that bus stop could hear them, as Billy wouldn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

in va i as told by th commonwealths attorney that there is no expectation of privacy during the commision of a crime

[SomeKid]

Teach your kid to always have a very sharp pencil in his hand. When the bully attacks, stab the guy as hard as he can, preferably somewhere painful. It worked for me when I was in middle school. I did not even get in trouble, as no bully EVER goes crying to the teacher.

You may want to do that AFTER you attempt to talk to the parents of the other kid. If that doesn't work, all bets are off. Teach your kid to fight, hard.

[Perd Hapley]

tyranny is not tolerated in this country.

Are we speaking of middle-school bullying as tyranny now?  Must we?   

[BrokenPaw]

For the record, and in no particular order:  Yes, this is in Virginia.  I don't think that a school suspension would likely result regardless, because the problem is occurring after the kids have been dropped off at the bus stop and are walking home from there, and I don't believe the school's authority extends past the bus stop. 

My first instinct was along the lines of yesitsloaded and somekid's advice; i. e., "Hand Billy his arse".  However, comma, there are a couple difficulties with that avenue.  BK has Asperger's Syndrome, and has already shown a tendency to conclude that something that is a valid solution in one circumstance is a valid solution in all circumstances, and I hesitate to advocate violence with him for that reason; part of his mental malfunction is that he has no concept of situational adaptation.  Further, he's about as coordinated as a bag of hammers, and not even years of martial arts have made a dent in that, while Billy is the typical jock; I imagine that if BK took the fight to him, he'd be bringing his teeth home in a baggie.

The current plan is to talk to BillyMom and BillyDad today, and if that bears no fruit, then we'll probably go down the route of having BK accidentally leave his voice recorder on.

Thanks for all the replies!
-BP 

[member1313]

First, I commend you on trying to solve this conflict without violence. That's always a good first step.

Second, teach your kid how to fight, and not to take crap from other people.

The one thing I never did during school was stand up for myself. I regret it. As long as your child knows the difference between violence meant to hurt others, and violence in self-defense, he'll be fine.

Third, the school's authority extends to wherever they say it extends to. They'll get away with it, too, even if it's flat-out wrong of them to extend their power.

Kids at my high school were suspended for actions taken outside of school, not on school property, and not during school-sponsored events, despite that my high school is one of the "best," if not the best in my state.

There's nothing wrong with your child learning that the system is broken and will not always defend those who are innocent. Again, try to solve this conflict without violence, and without hard feelings between families. That doesn't always work, and sometimes people have to stop being passive, and stop taking crap from others.

Best of luck--let us know how it turns out.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

what part of va?  i have a great style for relating the truth to young men who are straying from the path of righteous living. i perfected it dealing with the young men the courts refer my way. in some cases i use "peer on peer" interactions. may even have some young men in the neighborhood who could counsel the young man delicately.  my guys get released and go all over the state.