Author Topic: Santorum out  (Read 10257 times)

HankB

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2012, 10:02:49 AM »
With a President Romney, we might - might - get a good SCOTUS appointment.

No guarantee, of course, but with Mitt we have a chance.

But with BHO, we'd certainly get someone in the same mold as Kagan and Sotomayor - if not further left.

And that would be more damaging to this country in the long term than the malevolence of BHO's fiscal, domestic, and foreign policies.
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lee n. field

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2012, 10:27:03 AM »
Just a gut feeling, but I'm sure the Romney camp knows that there's a lot of sentiment about him like there is right here on this board. And that there's a LOT of disappointment post-Reagan, where all we got as POTUS material was: "No new taxes Bush I", "Is he alive? Dole", "The great spendthrift disappointment Bush II", and "The Manchurian Candidate McCain"...

Is there any awareness of this?  I have my doubts.
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Scout26

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2012, 12:07:09 PM »
With a President Romney, we might - might - get a good SCOTUS appointment.

No guarantee, of course, but with Mitt we have a chance.

But with BHO, we'd certainly get someone in the same mold as Kagan and Sotomayor - if not further left.

And that would be more damaging to this country in the long term than the malevolence of BHO's fiscal, domestic, and foreign policies.

That is about the only thing that would make me mark the box for Romney.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 02:09:58 PM by scout26 »
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Balog

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2012, 01:36:20 PM »
Is there any awareness of this?  I have my doubts.

The articles I've read from the higher ups in his campaign staff make me doubt that too...
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Ron

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2012, 09:07:00 PM »
I voted for GHB once and didn't like it, no not a bit, voting for anyone else didn't seem prudent with Slick Willy running so strong though.

The Supreme Court appointments were my personal excuse for voting for a Bush again, not once' but twice with GWB.

Looking at the current makeup of the court, a case can be made it is not a bad reason to hold your nose and vote R.

Romney is just an even more moderate R than GW and seems to want to be liked by everyone more than Bush ever did. That is a recipe for an even bigger disaster than Maximus Spendulous Bush II. Big government spending without even getting court appointments that respect the constitution. Haven't heard anything about what type of judges Romney would appoint, anyone have any insight into how that would play out?  

Currently I'm still planning on voting for all libertarians and writing in Ron Paul.

My disdain for the establishment is pretty freaking high.

I don't trust Republicans any more than the Democritters, they just frequently do less damage than them, accidentally.  
 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 09:11:19 PM by Ron »
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HankB

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2012, 09:50:54 PM »
. . .  Currently I'm still planning on voting for all libertarians and writing in Ron Paul. . . .

Thank you for your help.

XXOO

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Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Ron

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2012, 11:50:47 PM »
Thank you for your help.

XXOO

BHO

That kind of stuff worked on me when I was younger.

After years of voting for the lesser of two evils (miss the part about voting for the Bush's?)  I'm not as susceptible to the party line guilt trip.

Since I've been of voting age the trend has been against freedom. This despite several Republican presidents and control of both houses of congress for a spell.

*expletive deleted* me? *expletive deleted* them!

I'd rather vote my conscience like I did when I was young and had the courage of my convictions.

I'll let others play the gypsy game of heads I win tails you lose.

I'm old enough now to realize the new boss is the same as the old boss. Two sides, one coin.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 12:51:34 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2012, 12:43:32 AM »
Obviously, some will see voting for Romney as voting their conscience. I do not begrudge them this. I'm just not one of them.

Local (syndicated) talk show lady has been down on Romney, but she thinks we all have to fall in line now. She thinks holding nose and voting Romney is putting country before party. "What's the point of having a party, if there's no country?" It boggles my mind that she could put it that way. Seems a little backward.
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roo_ster

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2012, 07:50:42 AM »
This mewling about being tired of voting for "the lesser of two evils" is chapping my [for the love of Plush Cthulhu, is the language filter set for a full "Mister Rogers?"].  Not because I am a GOP reptile who wants all this ruckus to die down so we can get behind the splendiferous Mitt Goodhair.  More because it has ever been thus and will ever be thus

Waiting for "someone you can vote for without reservation" is akin to waiting for a secular messiah.  It is a sign of unseriousness.  Because that person will never, ever come.  Even if you find such a candidate, you are wrong, because you just haven't looked hard enough to find his flaws.

You want a candidate who favors the pre-Progressive traditional scope of fed.gov?  You're going to have to work on bringing the culture back to a pre-Progressive state, so people will be willing to elect such a critter and the bounds for "realistic(1)" political debate are shifted in that direction. 

Until then, the lesser evil is the best choice you are going to have.  All else is political masturbation: you might enjoy it, but it is of no consequence.







(1) Meaning, have any chance whatsoever of being effected.
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makattak

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2012, 08:41:51 AM »
This mewling about being tired of voting for "the lesser of two evils" is chapping my [for the love of Plush Cthulhu, is the language filter set for a full "Mister Rogers?"].  Not because I am a GOP reptile who wants all this ruckus to die down so we can get behind the splendiferous Mitt Goodhair.  More because it has ever been thus and will ever be thus

Waiting for "someone you can vote for without reservation" is akin to waiting for a secular messiah.  It is a sign of unseriousness.  Because that person will never, ever come.  Even if you find such a candidate, you are wrong, because you just haven't looked hard enough to find his flaws.

You want a candidate who favors the pre-Progressive traditional scope of fed.gov?  You're going to have to work on bringing the culture back to a pre-Progressive state, so people will be willing to elect such a critter and the bounds for "realistic(1)" political debate are shifted in that direction. 

Until then, the lesser evil is the best choice you are going to have.  All else is political masturbation: you might enjoy it, but it is of no consequence.

(1) Meaning, have any chance whatsoever of being effected.

I'm not holding out for someone that I can vote for "without reservation."

I have reservations about Gingrich, Santorum, and Paul. I would still be voting for them, were they to (by some miracle) secure the nomination.

This is about not voting for someone who is grossly unacceptable and completely untrustworthy. He's the Republican Obama who tells you what you want to hear. His record is completely contrary to his current rhetoric, but we are supposed to ignore that because "HE'S NOT OBAMA!" (and he has great hair!)

Great. I can tell you, I can't WAIT for him to appoint another Souter to the Supreme Court.
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erictank

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2012, 08:58:12 AM »
Thank you for your help.

XXOO

BHO

Y'know what?

F***.  THAT. 

If Republicans want the votes of the moderates and libertarian types that they SAY THEY NEED in order to put ABO in office, then they'd damned well better suck it up and ACT LIKE IT for a change.

Forget about the whole "vote for the lesser of two evils" nonsense, which has (nearly) everyone accepting the "fact" that they have to vote for, well, EVIL. By caving to that nonsense and doing so, you're telling the establishment, "This candidate is *EXACTLY WHAT I WANT* - give me more of that, please!"  And we get Presidents like Bush and Obama (how many voted for The One merely because they were fed up with the Republicans, again?). We get candidates like McCain.  We get candidates like Romney, who couldn't beat the guy who couldn't beat Obama last time.  And all those people, who've been telling the establishment for DECADES now that they want EXACTLY that kind of person in office, have the sheer unmitigated GALL to complain that they (and we) got what they asked for! :facepalm:

While I'd certainly LIKE a "secular messiah" to come along and offer to be the perfect politician, waiting for one is indeed not practical - even Ron Paul has his warts, from my perspective. He's just miles ahead of the competition, from the perspective of those seeking small government and personal liberty. This, sadly, is perceived as being unelectably-radical, leading to Roo's "shift the debate" line. Yeah, that needs to be done if we're ever going to find and be able to elect anyone resembling the "secular messiah". Voting for more-of-the-same ain't gonna do that. And if that means that the R's miss out on another Presidential election, if we keep the statist currently in the White House rather than his so-called competitor, well, perhaps the R's might choose to learn a freaking lesson from it.  For a change.  Mitt can claim to be different, to be better, all he likes. I don't see it, and I won't vote for him because of that.  He hasn't EARNED it.

Quote
Until then, the lesser evil is the best choice you are going to have.  All else is political masturbation: you might enjoy it, but it is of no consequence.

At least I'm trying, even in a small way, to make a real difference rather than simply perpetuating the status quo. Maybe if more people tried, we might actually be able to make that difference happen, rather than sit around and moan that our choices are so bad but we'd better just vote for the so-called "lesser of two evils" anyways.

And since I get stuck with your choices anyways, I can't even say that I enjoy it.  But I do it because it needs to be done, and THAT makes it worthwhile. You don't get political change by voting for more-of-the-same over and over again.  You get ( :O ) more-of-the-same.

Make a change.

CNYCacher

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2012, 09:06:28 AM »
If the republican party fails to field a candidate who appeals to libertarian voters, and the republican party loses because of that, don't blame libertarian voters.
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makattak

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2012, 10:21:39 AM »
If Republicans want the votes of the moderates and libertarian types that they SAY THEY NEED in order to put ABO in office, then they'd damned well better suck it up and ACT LIKE IT for a change.

Mitt Romney IS the pandering to the moderates.

You libertarians can just suck it up and vote for him just like they tell the social conservatives to do.

(Please note that I have already stated I don't think I can bring myself to vote for him. Thus, please read the massive amount of sarcasm that is written in that statement.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Balog

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2012, 12:11:51 PM »
Roo_ster is right, in that waiting for a perfect candidate is fruitful. He's also right that our culture is probably not conducive to a true libertarian type, right now. I don't agree that failing to vote for whatever steaming pile of dog excrement the NorthEast semi-liberal country club Republican establishment has foisted onto us this time is wankery. At some point, if you don't refuse to buy the product they're selling, a business has no reason to change.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2012, 12:21:49 PM »
Quote
But with BHO, we'd certainly get someone in the same mold as Kagan and Sotomayor - if not further left.

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RevDisk

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2012, 12:41:15 PM »
Mitt Romney IS the pandering to the moderates.

You libertarians can just suck it up and vote for him just like they tell the social conservatives to do.

(Please note that I have already stated I don't think I can bring myself to vote for him. Thus, please read the massive amount of sarcasm that is written in that statement.)

If it is one thing that grinds my teeth, it is when Republican politicians basically dictate their feelings of entitlement to an office.
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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2012, 12:58:38 PM »
We know Mitt Romney is going to appoint an SC justice that is a strong defender of the Constitution how? If the President leans towards being a milquetoast that wants to make everyone happy, I suspect his SC appointment will also be milquetoast.
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Tallpine

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2012, 03:46:07 PM »
If it wasn't for the state and local offices, I wouldn't even bother mailing in my ballot this fall :(
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2012, 03:51:47 PM »
Oh, happy day. Another seven months of running each other down for voting/not voting for the Republican nominee. Why can't we do this every year?
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birdman

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2012, 06:58:24 PM »
I'm gonna vote for mitt, all his detractions aside.  My reason, I do suspect there will (hopefully) be a power shift in the legislature, but not enough to override a veto.  And if BHO is still in, being on his last term...I have no doubt he would veto even popular (but conservative) bills.

Throw in the (2) SCOTUS appointments that are possible, and the highly progressive nature of the others in the court that likely wouldn't be leaving, AND their activist progressive tendencies...it's too big of a risk.  With Romney, while its likely he wouldn't appoint another Thomas or Roberts...it's better a Kennedy-esque appointment than another Kagan/sotomayor.  Besides, if legislative power shifts rightward, ramming through a "CINO" (constitutionalist) would be more difficult for Romney, but I can see BHO bullying congress to confirm a quasi-moderate (who lies like Kagan) if he gives them no other choices, then pummels them in the MSM how not confirming them is bad for the country.

HankB

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2012, 11:44:15 PM »
Y'know what?

F***.  THAT. 

If Republicans want the votes of the moderates and libertarian types that they SAY THEY NEED in order to put ABO in office, then they'd damned well better suck it up and ACT LIKE IT for a change.
I understand the sentiment - it's not exactly heartwarming when the only choices with a chance of winning are bad and worse. Casting a protest vote makes you feel good for a while, but it certainly helps worse.

But consider this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

MicroBalrog

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2012, 12:23:01 AM »
I understand the sentiment - it's not exactly heartwarming when the only choices with a chance of winning are bad and worse. Casting a protest vote makes you feel good for a while, but it certainly helps worse.


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erictank

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2012, 06:28:43 AM »
I understand the sentiment - it's not exactly heartwarming when the only choices with a chance of winning are bad and worse. Casting a protest vote makes you feel good for a while, but it certainly helps worse.

But consider this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

And if bad won't learn from that, then as I said, they don't deserve to win.

I. DON'T. CARE. that bad is ever-so-slightly-less-abusive than worse. There'll never BE anything better if people refuse to VOTE for better when it comes along. And my point stands - those of us determined to vote for that something better get scorn and derision hurled our way because we choose to vote for something better than bad, because supposedly we're honor-bound to ignore our principles and vote for bad instead of better and could potentially cost bad the election?  TOO. FREAKING. BAD. If bad cared about my vote, and the votes of those like me, they'd ACT LIKE IT FOR A CHANGE, and they're NOT.

They don't WANT my vote. And they don't deserve it - so they won't GET it. Despite their continual presumption, they do not in fact own my vote, and I won't give it to someone like Romney.  If that costs them the election, because enough liberty-oriented voters vote for actual liberty-oriented candidates rather than bad - well, like I said, perhaps they'll learn from that.  I doubt it, though, there's a reason we often refer to the R's as "the stupid party." People like to trot out old saws like "cutting off your nose to spite your face," or "the perfect is the enemy of the good." Well, to quote a response to the latter which I particularly liked, "I say that if nobody ever insisted on the perfect, there'd never be any good. " (L. Neil Smith).  Go on, tell me I'm wrong.

We MUST demand better, or we'll never GET it. That entails risk, but given the crap we're facing even if bad wins instead of worse, and which we've historically gotten whenever bad won over worse, it's time and long past to start taking that risk, or admit that we (as a group, as a people) don't actually want liberty at all - we'd rather have bad's version of the nanny state, as opposed to worse's. Both are WRONG.

And like MB said, the power to destroy a thing is control over it. If they need my vote, they'd better start promising - and delivering! - at least some of what I want and need, or else they evidently think that they don't really need my vote at all, don't they?  That's what they're acting like. If that costs them the election, that's THEIR fault. Me?  I'm doing what little I can to make a real change, to push for something better than more-of-the-same. All they need to do to get my vote is respect that. Paul, for all that he's not perfect, would do so. Romney, Santorum, Gingrich - none of them care.  None of them respect that.  All of them see more-of-the-same as the way to go, because that puts one of them, or one of their competitors from the other wing of the Modern American Political Machine (second verse, same as the first!), into office.

That's what you're supporting.  Someone who wants things to continue as they have been. Someone who thinks that easing back ever-so-slightly on the gas is an acceptable final response to charges that we're headed at 120 towards a cliff, so that we're only doing 110. We need to be supporting the guys who want to turn the freaking steering wheel so we're pointed a different direction. That's the only way things will get better.

roo_ster

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Re: Santorum out
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2012, 03:38:09 PM »
He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing.

Logic failure. 
Regards,

roo_ster

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