Author Topic: A chart for all the drug warriors  (Read 6666 times)

Balog

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A chart for all the drug warriors
« on: October 12, 2012, 06:23:35 PM »
Pretty much says it all.

Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2012, 06:26:33 PM »
But... but... authoritah.  You're not respecting it!   :police:
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2012, 06:29:55 PM »
got a source?  that graph has an aroma
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2012, 06:34:58 PM »
http://reason.com/blog/2012/10/11/forty-years-of-drug-war-failure-in-a-sin

It was originally part of a larger story, which explains the $1.5trillion. That number isn't accurate for strictly federal spending, but reflects totals costs.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2012, 06:36:08 PM »
it was the number of addicts number i think is factually challenged
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2012, 06:38:43 PM »
but his own disclaimer


    This graphic was initially not meant to stand on its own but rather illustrate an interviewee’s assertions about the costs and efficacy of drug prohibition. In a tight production schedule, I utilized a data set that I thought most accurately illustrated the nature and growth of the costs of the War on Drugs and that data is US federal drug control spending. But the $1.5 trillion figure, as mentioned by Jack Cole in his interview, accounts for many more costs, including state level costs, prison costs, lost productivity costs due to incarceration and others.



and this



The creator of the chart, documentary filmmaker Matt Groff, Tweeted the following in response to a question about where the $1.5 trillion figure comes from: "Short answer: chart shows only fed drug control, $1.5T refers to all costs assoc. w/ drug prohibition, blog on it shortly."

First off, I take the blame for not seeing the discrepancy. Shame on me.

But here's the funny thing: While the $1.5 trillion figure doesn't correspond to the numbers at right, it's actually low. In 2010, the AP put the 40-year tab of federal drug control spending at $1 trillion. But the massive federal drug control budget--for fiscal year 2013, it'll be $3.7 billion for interdiction, $9.4 billion for law enforcement, and $9.2 billion for early intervention--is actually a pretty small slice of the pie. States and municipalities have their own drug war expenses--investigating, trying, and locking up drug offenders--and those expenses actually dwarf what the federal government spends.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2012, 06:40:02 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2012, 06:42:00 PM »
If only you'd show such hard nosed scepticism when cops shoot/beat/raid someone.  ;/

The chart is accurate, save the $1.5T figure in the middle.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Tallpine

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2012, 06:50:25 PM »
But just think how bad the economy would be without all that spending  :lol:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2012, 06:51:22 PM »
If only you'd show such hard nosed scepticism when cops shoot/beat/raid someone.  ;/

The chart is accurate, save the $1.5T figure in the middle.

really?
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNHCRdSCOrBhw9Kuu4z8WYej-Bl2h2S8B3Nt03wrqtG-CnByEHFafsCnp2

and in my world that fantasy is not borne out
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 06:52:06 PM »
But just think how bad the economy would be without all that spending  :lol:



yea its great for the columbian economy   and mexican
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Blakenzy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2012, 06:55:20 PM »
Being Profeshunal cost money.


That is all.
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both"

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

drewtam

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2012, 07:14:22 PM »
really?
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNHCRdSCOrBhw9Kuu4z8WYej-Bl2h2S8B3Nt03wrqtG-CnByEHFafsCnp2

and in my world that fantasy is not borne out

1- CSD is intentionally missing the point
2- Looks like CSDs links support the graphic.


1-Explanation: The argument is not related to the absolute rate. The argument is based on the delta-% vs spending $. Spending money has not changed the rate. CSD has not posted anything that disputes this argument, but rather is chasing strawmen.

2-Explanation: Details per CSD's first link
MJ addiction is ~1.36% (4.476/330)
Rx addiction is 0.58%
Coke addition is 0.30%

I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2012, 07:31:55 PM »
I guess you missed the part where the earnest young man admits he only had good data for 10 out the 40 years?
Ironic thats typical for a reason piece. I call it balkoism
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2012, 07:38:21 PM »
I guess you missed the part where the earnest young man admits he only had good data for 10 out the 40 years?
Ironic thats typical for a reason piece. I call it balkoism

For someone who's so full of s### you certainly are high and mighty about cheap character assassination "fact checking." /sigh

I really must stop feeding the trolls. You're going on the "Obama's biography" plan where you're hoping no one reads all the BS you spam and just believes that it in some way relates to your slanderous arguments, aren't you?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

dogmush

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2012, 07:40:25 PM »
I guess you missed the part where the earnest young man admits he only had good data for 10 out the 40 years?
Ironic thats typical for a reason piece. I call it balkoism

That's not what he said. He said he couldn't find the data online. Then he cited the source he used. Go find a hard copy.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2012, 08:01:42 PM »
That's not what he said. He said he couldn't find the data online. Then he cited the source he used. Go find a hard copy.

yea the report he cited?  started in 96  he swags back to 1970
  like i said typical reason piece
  first rule to a con is tell the sucker what he wants to hear
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Regolith

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2012, 08:26:29 PM »
yea the report he cited?  started in 96  he swags back to 1970
  like i said typical reason piece
  first rule to a con is tell the sucker what he wants to hear

No, he simply used offline resources, specifically the National Survey on Drug Use and Health which has been operating since 1971.

http://www.mattgroff.com/questions-on-the-1315-project-chart/

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED237844&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED237844

The only one making SWAG's around here is you.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 08:30:20 PM by Regolith »
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2012, 08:29:54 PM »
I really must stop feeding the trolls.

On the tab bar at the top click "profile."

Then under Modify Profile, second link from the bottom, click "Personal Message Options."

This will bring up your ignore list for editting. Add "cassandra and sara's daddy" minus the quotations.

Click "change profile."


Trust me, it makes reading threads like this a lot less aggravating and time consuming.

drewtam

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2012, 01:18:13 AM »
I guess you missed the part where the earnest young man admits he only had good data for 10 out the 40 years?
Ironic thats typical for a reason piece. I call it balkoism

Nice job moving the goal posts after I shot down your counter, it was very smoothly done.
I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

drewtam

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2012, 01:25:05 AM »
...
This will bring up your ignore list for editting. Add "cassandra and sara's daddy" minus the quotations.
...

Ahhh, don't be so fragile.  :P

I, for one, welcome CSDs attempts at counter arguing. It keeps the politics place half way honest and sharpens the mind.
I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

kgbsquirrel

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2012, 01:40:07 AM »
Ahhh, don't be so fragile.  :P

I, for one, welcome CSDs attempts at counter arguing. It keeps the politics place half way honest and sharpens the mind.

If you say so, to me it reeks of intellectually dishonest trolling that just manages to stay just this side of the banschwerk line.

Fitz

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2012, 07:16:50 AM »
If you say so, to me it reeks of intellectually dishonest trolling that just manages to stay just this side of the banschwerk line.

+1
Fitz

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drewtam

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Re: A chart for all the drug warriors
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2012, 11:06:57 AM »
If you say so, to me it reeks of intellectually dishonest trolling that just manages to stay just this side of the banschwerk line.

Yeah, I know what you mean sometimes. But its not like some of us don't try to antagonize and bring up this same disagreement over and over again. I mean, for whom do you think the thread title, "A chart for all the drug warriors" is directed at?  >:D  I think there is only 1 really outspoken drug warrior & pro-police poster on this board. :lol:   [popcorn]
I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!