Author Topic: Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006  (Read 4135 times)

Sindawe

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« on: February 16, 2006, 09:30:40 PM »
A hundred years ago it was called “dollar diplomacy.” After World War II, and especially after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989, that policy evolved into “dollar hegemony.” But after all these many years of great success, our dollar dominance is coming to an end.

It has been said, rightly, that he who holds the gold makes the rules. In earlier times it was readily accepted that fair and honest trade required an exchange for something of real value.

First it was simply barter of goods. Then it was discovered that gold held a universal attraction, and was a convenient substitute for more cumbersome barter transactions. Not only did gold facilitate exchange of goods and services, it served as a store of value for those who wanted to save for a rainy day.

Though money developed naturally in the marketplace, as governments grew in power they assumed monopoly control over money. Sometimes governments succeeded in guaranteeing the quality and purity of gold, but in time governments learned to outspend their revenues. New or higher taxes always incurred the disapproval of the people, so it wasn’t long before Kings and Caesars learned how to inflate their currencies by reducing the amount of gold in each coin – always hoping their subjects wouldn’t discover the fraud. But the people always did, and they strenuously objected.

This helped pressure leaders to seek more gold by conquering other nations. The people became accustomed to living beyond their means, and enjoyed the circuses and bread. Financing extravagances by conquering foreign lands seemed a logical alternative to working harder and producing more. Besides, conquering nations not only brought home gold, they brought home slaves as well. Taxing the people in conquered territories also provided an incentive to build empires. This system of government worked well for a while, but the moral decline of the people led to an unwillingness to produce for themselves. There was a limit to the number of countries that could be sacked for their wealth, and this always brought empires to an end. When gold no longer could be obtained, their military might crumbled. In those days those who held the gold truly wrote the rules and lived well.

That general rule has held fast throughout the ages. When gold was used, and the rules protected honest commerce, productive nations thrived. Whenever wealthy nations – those with powerful armies and gold – strived only for empire and easy fortunes to support welfare at home, those nations failed.

Today the principles are the same, but the process is quite different. Gold no longer is the currency of the realm; paper is. The truth now is: “He who prints the money makes the rules” – at least for the time being. Although gold is not used, the goals are the same: compel foreign countries to produce and subsidize the country with military superiority and control over the monetary printing presses.

Since printing paper money is nothing short of counterfeiting, the issuer of the international currency must always be the country with the military might to guarantee control over the system. This magnificent scheme seems the perfect system for obtaining perpetual wealth for the country that issues the de facto world currency. The one problem, however, is that such a system destroys the character of the counterfeiting nation’s people – just as was the case when gold was the currency and it was obtained by conquering other nations. And this destroys the incentive to save and produce, while encouraging debt and runaway welfare.

The pressure at home to inflate the currency comes from the corporate welfare recipients, as well as those who demand handouts as compensation for their needs and perceived injuries by others. In both cases personal responsibility for one’s actions is rejected.

When paper money is rejected, or when gold runs out, wealth and political stability are lost. The country then must go from living beyond its means to living beneath its means, until the economic and political systems adjust to the new rules – rules no longer written by those who ran the now defunct printing press.

“Dollar Diplomacy,” a policy instituted by William Howard Taft and his Secretary of State Philander C. Knox, was designed to enhance U.S. commercial investments in Latin America and the Far East. McKinley concocted a war against Spain in 1898, and (Teddy) Roosevelt’s corollary to the Monroe Doctrine preceded Taft’s aggressive approach to using the U.S. dollar and diplomatic influence to secure U.S. investments abroad. This earned the popular title of “Dollar Diplomacy.” The significance of Roosevelt’s change was that our intervention now could be justified by the mere “appearance” that a country of interest to us was politically or fiscally vulnerable to European control. Not only did we claim a right, but even an official U.S. government “obligation” to protect our commercial interests from Europeans.

This new policy came on the heels of the “gunboat” diplomacy of the late 19th century, and it meant we could buy influence before resorting to the threat of force. By the time the “dollar diplomacy” of William Howard Taft was clearly articulated, the seeds of American empire were planted. And they were destined to grow in the fertile political soil of a country that lost its love and respect for the republic bequeathed to us by the authors of the Constitution. And indeed they did. It wasn’t too long before dollar “diplomacy” became dollar “hegemony” in the second half of the 20th century.

This transition only could have occurred with a dramatic change in monetary policy and the nature of the dollar itself.

Congress created the Federal Reserve System in 1913. Between then and 1971 the principle of sound money was systematically undermined. Between 1913 and 1971, the Federal Reserve found it much easier to expand the money supply at will for financing war or manipulating the economy with little resistance from Congress – while benefiting the special interests that influence government.

Dollar dominance got a huge boost after World War II. We were spared the destruction that so many other nations suffered, and our coffers were filled with the world’s gold. But the world chose not to return to the discipline of the gold standard, and the politicians applauded. Printing money to pay the bills was a lot more popular than taxing or restraining unnecessary spending. In spite of the short-term benefits, imbalances were institutionalized for decades to come.

The 1944 Bretton Woods agreement solidified the dollar as the preeminent world reserve currency, replacing the British pound. Due to our political and military muscle, and because we had a huge amount of physical gold, the world readily accepted our dollar (defined as 1/35th of an ounce of gold) as the world’s reserve currency. The dollar was said to be “as good as gold,” and convertible to all foreign central banks at that rate. For American citizens, however, it remained illegal to own. This was a gold-exchange standard that from inception was doomed to fail.

The U.S. did exactly what many predicted she would do. She printed more dollars for which there was no gold backing. But the world was content to accept those dollars for more than 25 years with little question – until the French and others in the late 1960s demanded we fulfill our promise to pay one ounce of gold for each $35 they delivered to the U.S. Treasury. This resulted in a huge gold drain that brought an end to a very poorly devised pseudo-gold standard.

It all ended on August 15, 1971, when Nixon closed the gold window and refused to pay out any of our remaining 280 million ounces of gold. In essence, we declared our insolvency and everyone recognized some other monetary system had to be devised in order to bring stability to the markets.

Amazingly, a new system was devised which allowed the U.S. to operate the printing presses for the world reserve currency with no restraints placed on it – not even a pretense of gold convertibility, none whatsoever! Though the new policy was even more deeply flawed, it nevertheless opened the door for dollar hegemony to spread.

Realizing the world was embarking on something new and mind-boggling, elite money managers, with especially strong support from U.S. authorities, struck an agreement with OPEC to price oil in U.S. dollars exclusively for all worldwide transactions. This gave the dollar a special place among world currencies and in essence “backed” the dollar with oil. In return, the U.S. promised to protect the various oil-rich kingdoms in the Persian Gulf against threat of invasion or domestic coup. This arrangement helped ignite the radical Islamic movement among those who resented our influence in the region. The arrangement gave the dollar artificial strength, with tremendous financial benefits for the United States. It allowed us to export our monetary inflation by buying oil and other goods at a great discount as dollar influence flourished.

This post-Bretton Woods system was much more fragile than the system that existed between 1945 and 1971. Though the dollar/oil arrangement was helpful, it was not nearly as stable as the pseudo–gold standard under Bretton Woods. It certainly was less stable than the gold standard of the late 19th century.

During the 1970s the dollar nearly collapsed, as oil prices surged and gold skyrocketed to $800 an ounce. By 1979 interest rates of 21% were required to rescue the system. The pressure on the dollar in the 1970s, in spite of the benefits accrued to it, reflected reckless budget deficits and monetary inflation during the 1960s. The markets were not fooled by LBJ’s claim that we could afford both “guns and butter.”

Once again the dollar was rescued, and this ushered in the age of true dollar hegemony lasting from the early 1980s to the present. With tremendous cooperation coming from the central banks and international commercial banks, the dollar was accepted as if it were gold.

Fed Chair Alan Greenspan, on several occasions before the House Banking Committee, answered my challenges to him about his previously held favorable views on gold by claiming that he and other central bankers had gotten paper money – i.e. the dollar system – to respond as if it were gold. Each time I strongly disagreed, and pointed out that if they had achieved such a feat they would have defied centuries of economic history regarding the need for money to be something of real value. He smugly and confidently concurred with this.

In recent years central banks and various financial institutions, all with vested interests in maintaining a workable fiat dollar standard, were not secretive about selling and loaning large amounts of gold to the market even while decreasing gold prices raised serious questions about the wisdom of such a policy. They never admitted to gold price fixing, but the evidence is abundant that they believed if the gold price fell it would convey a sense of confidence to the market, confidence that they indeed had achieved amazing success in turning paper into gold.

Increasing gold prices historically are viewed as an indicator of distrust in paper currency. This recent effort was not a whole lot different than the U.S. Treasury selling gold at $35 an ounce in the 1960s, in an attempt to convince the world the dollar was sound and as good as gold. Even during the Depression, one of Roosevelt’s first acts was to remove free market gold pricing as an indication of a flawed monetary system by making it illegal for American citizens to own gold. Economic law eventually limited that effort, as it did in the early 1970s when our Treasury and the IMF tried to fix the price of gold by dumping tons into the market to dampen the enthusiasm of those seeking a safe haven for a falling dollar after gold ownership was re-legalized.

Once again the effort between 1980 and 2000 to fool the market as to the true value of the dollar proved unsuccessful. In the past 5 years the dollar has been devalued in terms of gold by more than 50%. You just can’t fool all the people all the time, even with the power of the mighty printing press and money creating system of the Federal Reserve.

Even with all the shortcomings of the fiat monetary system, dollar influence thrived. The results seemed beneficial, but gross distortions built into the system remained. And true to form, Washington politicians are only too anxious to solve the problems cropping up with window dressing, while failing to understand and deal with the underlying flawed policy. Protectionism, fixing exchange rates, punitive tariffs, politically motivated sanctions, corporate subsidies, international trade management, price controls, interest rate and wage controls, super-nationalist sentiments, threats of force, and even war are resorted to – all to solve the problems artificially created by deeply flawed monetary and economic systems.

In the short run, the issuer of a fiat reserve currency can accrue great economic benefits. In the long run, it poses a threat to the country issuing the world currency. In this case that’s the United States. As long as foreign countries take our dollars in return for real goods, we come out ahead. This is a benefit many in Congress fail to recognize, as they bash China for maintaining a positive trade balance with us. But this leads to a loss of manufacturing jobs to overseas markets, as we become more dependent on others and less self-sufficient. Foreign countries accumulate our dollars due to their high savings rates, and graciously loan them back to us at low interest rates to finance our excessive consumption.

It sounds like a great deal for everyone, except the time will come when our dollars – due to their depreciation – will be received less enthusiastically or even be rejected by foreign countries. That could create a whole new ballgame and force us to pay a price for living beyond our means and our production. The shift in sentiment regarding the dollar has already started, but the worst is yet to come.

The agreement with OPEC in the 1970s to price oil in dollars has provided tremendous artificial strength to the dollar as the preeminent reserve currency. This has created a universal demand for the dollar, and soaks up the huge number of new dollars generated each year. Last year alone M3 increased over $700 billion.

The artificial demand for our dollar, along with our military might, places us in the unique position to “rule” the world without productive work or savings, and without limits on consumer spending or deficits. The problem is, it can’t last.

Price inflation is raising its ugly head, and the NASDAQ bubble – generated by easy money – has burst. The housing bubble likewise created is deflating. Gold prices have doubled, and federal spending is out of sight with zero political will to rein it in. The trade deficit last year was over $728 billion. A $2 trillion war is raging, and plans are being laid to expand the war into Iran and possibly Syria. The only restraining force will be the world’s rejection of the dollar. It’s bound to come and create conditions worse than 1979–1980, which required 21% interest rates to correct. But everything possible will be done to protect the dollar in the meantime. We have a shared interest with those who hold our dollars to keep the whole charade going.

Greenspan, in his first speech after leaving the Fed, said that gold prices were up because of concern about terrorism, and not because of monetary concerns or because he created too many dollars during his tenure. Gold has to be discredited and the dollar propped up. Even when the dollar comes under serious attack by market forces, the central banks and the IMF surely will do everything conceivable to soak up the dollars in hope of restoring stability. Eventually they will fail.

Most importantly, the dollar/oil relationship has to be maintained to keep the dollar as a preeminent currency. Any attack on this relationship will be forcefully challenged – as it already has been.

In November 2000 Saddam Hussein demanded Euros for his oil. His arrogance was a threat to the dollar; his lack of any military might was never a threat. At the first cabinet meeting with the new administration in 2001, as reported by Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill, the major topic was how we would get rid of Saddam Hussein – though there was no evidence whatsoever he posed a threat to us. This deep concern for Saddam Hussein surprised and shocked O’Neill.

It now is common knowledge that the immediate reaction of the administration after 9/11 revolved around how they could connect Saddam Hussein to the attacks, to justify an invasion and overthrow of his government. Even with no evidence of any connection to 9/11, or evidence of weapons of mass destruction, public and congressional support was generated through distortions and flat out misrepresentation of the facts to justify overthrowing Saddam Hussein.

There was no public talk of removing Saddam Hussein because of his attack on the integrity of the dollar as a reserve currency by selling oil in Euros. Many believe this was the real reason for our obsession with Iraq. I doubt it was the only reason, but it may well have played a significant role in our motivation to wage war. Within a very short period after the military victory, all Iraqi oil sales were carried out in dollars. The Euro was abandoned.

In 2001, Venezuela’s ambassador to Russia spoke of Venezuela switching to the Euro for all their oil sales. Within a year there was a coup attempt against Chavez, reportedly with assistance from our CIA.

After these attempts to nudge the Euro toward replacing the dollar as the world’s reserve currency were met with resistance, the sharp fall of the dollar against the Euro was reversed. These events may well have played a significant role in maintaining dollar dominance.

It’s become clear the U.S. administration was sympathetic to those who plotted the overthrow of Chavez, and was embarrassed by its failure. The fact that Chavez was democratically elected had little influence on which side we supported.

Now, a new attempt is being made against the petrodollar system. Iran, another member of the “axis of evil,” has announced her plans to initiate an oil bourse in March of this year. Guess what, the oil sales will be priced Euros, not dollars.

Most Americans forget how our policies have systematically and needlessly antagonized the Iranians over the years. In 1953 the CIA helped overthrow a democratically elected president, Mohammed Mossadeqh, and install the authoritarian Shah, who was friendly to the U.S. The Iranians were still fuming over this when the hostages were seized in 1979. Our alliance with Saddam Hussein in his invasion of Iran in the early 1980s did not help matters, and obviously did not do much for our relationship with Saddam Hussein. The administration announcement in 2001 that Iran was part of the axis of evil didn’t do much to improve the diplomatic relationship between our two countries. Recent threats over nuclear power, while ignoring the fact that they are surrounded by countries with nuclear weapons, doesn’t seem to register with those who continue to provoke Iran. With what most Muslims perceive as our war against Islam, and this recent history, there’s little wonder why Iran might choose to harm America by undermining the dollar. Iran, like Iraq, has zero capability to attack us. But that didn’t stop us from turning Saddam Hussein into a modern day Hitler ready to take over the world. Now Iran, especially since she’s made plans for pricing oil in Euros, has been on the receiving end of a propaganda war not unlike that waged against Iraq before our invasion.

It’s not likely that maintaining dollar supremacy was the only motivating factor for the war against Iraq, nor for agitating against Iran. Though the real reasons for going to war are complex, we now know the reasons given before the war started, like the presence of weapons of mass destruction and Saddam Hussein’s connection to 9/11, were false. The dollar’s importance is obvious, but this does not diminish the influence of the distinct plans laid out years ago by the neo-conservatives to remake the Middle East. Israel’s influence, as well as that of the Christian Zionists, likewise played a role in prosecuting this war. Protecting “our” oil supplies has influenced our Middle East policy for decades.

But the truth is that paying the bills for this aggressive intervention is impossible the old-fashioned way, with more taxes, more savings, and more production by the American people. Much of the expense of the Persian Gulf War in 1991 was shouldered by many of our willing allies. That’s not so today. Now, more than ever, the dollar hegemony – it’s dominance as the world reserve currency – is required to finance our huge war expenditures. This $2 trillion never-ending war must be paid for, one way or another. Dollar hegemony provides the vehicle to do just that.

For the most part the true victims aren’t aware of how they pay the bills. The license to create money out of thin air allows the bills to be paid through price inflation. American citizens, as well as average citizens of Japan, China, and other countries suffer from price inflation, which represents the “tax” that pays the bills for our military adventures. That is, until the fraud is discovered, and the foreign producers decide not to take dollars nor hold them very long in payment for their goods. Everything possible is done to prevent the fraud of the monetary system from being exposed to the masses who suffer from it. If oil markets replace dollars with Euros, it would in time curtail our ability to continue to print, without restraint, the world’s reserve currency.

It is an unbelievable benefit to us to import valuable goods and export depreciating dollars. The exporting countries have become addicted to our purchases for their economic growth. This dependency makes them allies in continuing the fraud, and their participation keeps the dollar’s value artificially high. If this system were workable long term, American citizens would never have to work again. We too could enjoy “bread and circuses” just as the Romans did, but their gold finally ran out and the inability of Rome to continue to plunder conquered nations brought an end to her empire.

The same thing will happen to us if we don’t change our ways. Though we don’t occupy foreign countries to directly plunder, we nevertheless have spread our troops across 130 nations of the world. Our intense effort to spread our power in the oil-rich Middle East is not a coincidence. But unlike the old days, we don’t declare direct ownership of the natural resources – we just insist that we can buy what we want and pay for it with our paper money. Any country that challenges our authority does so at great risk.

Once again Congress has bought into the war propaganda against Iran, just as it did against Iraq. Arguments are now made for attacking Iran economically, and militarily if necessary. These arguments are all based on the same false reasons given for the ill-fated and costly occupation of Iraq.

Our whole economic system depends on continuing the current monetary arrangement, which means recycling the dollar is crucial. Currently, we borrow over $700 billion every year from our gracious benefactors, who work hard and take our paper for their goods. Then we borrow all the money we need to secure the empire (DOD budget $450 billion) plus more. The military might we enjoy becomes the “backing” of our currency. There are no other countries that can challenge our military superiority, and therefore they have little choice but to accept the dollars we declare are today’s “gold.” This is why countries that challenge the system – like Iraq, Iran and Venezuela – become targets of our plans for regime change.

Ironically, dollar superiority depends on our strong military, and our strong military depends on the dollar. As long as foreign recipients take our dollars for real goods and are willing to finance our extravagant consumption and militarism, the status quo will continue regardless of how huge our foreign debt and current account deficit become.

But real threats come from our political adversaries who are incapable of confronting us militarily, yet are not bashful about confronting us economically. That’s why we see the new challenge from Iran being taken so seriously. The urgent arguments about Iran posing a military threat to the security of the United States are no more plausible than the false charges levied against Iraq. Yet there is no effort to resist this march to confrontation by those who grandstand for political reasons against the Iraq war.

It seems that the people and Congress are easily persuaded by the jingoism of the preemptive war promoters. It’s only after the cost in human life and dollars are tallied up that the people object to unwise militarism.

The strange thing is that the failure in Iraq is now apparent to a large majority of American people, yet they and Congress are acquiescing to the call for a needless and dangerous confrontation with Iran.

But then again, our failure to find Osama bin Laden and destroy his network did not dissuade us from taking on the Iraqis in a war totally unrelated to 9/11.

Concern for pricing oil only in dollars helps explain our willingness to drop everything and teach Saddam Hussein a lesson for his defiance in demanding Euros for oil.

And once again there’s this urgent call for sanctions and threats of force against Iran at the precise time Iran is opening a new oil exchange with all transactions in Euros.

Using force to compel people to accept money without real value can only work in the short run. It ultimately leads to economic dislocation, both domestic and international, and always ends with a price to be paid.

The economic law that honest exchange demands only things of real value as currency cannot be repealed. The chaos that one day will ensue from our 35-year experiment with worldwide fiat money will require a return to money of real value. We will know that day is approaching when oil-producing countries demand gold, or its equivalent, for their oil rather than dollars or Euros. The sooner the better.

February 17, 2006

Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

At least ONE of our Representatives in Congress knows whats going on, and is not afraid to speak out about it.  Meanwhile, mainstream media is focused on ANOTHER slaying of a mother and child, the "danger" that Iran represents and other distracting circuses.
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Antibubba

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2006, 03:10:56 AM »
Thank you. Sindawe, for posting that.  I've never heard it explained so well.
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auschip

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2006, 03:33:36 AM »
So then what is the answer?  Tieing the dollar valuation to an arbitrary commodity runs the risk of said commodity devaluing.  For instance, a dollar backed by gold would be subject to massive inflation if large amounts of gold were introduced into the market.  The latest data I could find, shows that other then the US, Germany is one of the largest holders of gold.  Interestingly enough, China is also in the top 10 of gold holders.  The recommendation has already been made internally that China should increase it's gold holdings from 600 tons to around 2500 tons.  This would cause a dramatic amount of deflation, which could further be used to destabilize the economy in the US.  

I like Ron Paul, he was the Dr. that delivered my wife when she was born, but I don't know that I agree with him on going back to the gold standard.

Moondoggie

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2006, 04:13:08 AM »
We need to go on a world wide "Calorie Standard"...so many calories in a barrel of oil, bushel of grain, pound of meat, watt of electricity, therm of natural gas.

That would level the playing field.

Zero calories in gold.
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The Rabbi

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2006, 05:51:24 AM »
I remember seeing the same garbage in the early 1970s.  Wasn't valid then.  Isn't valid now.
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charby

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2006, 07:42:10 AM »
That was a really interesting read, very enlightening.

C
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richyoung

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2006, 07:55:35 AM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
I remember seeing the same garbage in the early 1970s.  Wasn't valid then.  Isn't valid now.
Ron Paul is 100% right.  The fact is we don't have money - we don't even have currency.  And ALL of this is in direct contradiction to the Constitution.

Here's a clue - in the 70's, when you first saw the "same garbage", the US had already inflated what it uses instead of legal money to the point that quaters, dimes, half-dollars, and dollars could no longer be minted in silver.  (BTW, the decision to go to "clad" coins in those denominations was the last nail in the precious metal coffin - with gold prohibited from personal possesion by former head traitor FDR, and wiht the silver certificates no longer being honored, real silver coins were the last actual real precious metal normal people had possesion of, or even contact with, for themost part...).  Pennies, however, were still copper.  Fast forward to "now"  we can't even afford to make copper pennies - they are a zinc slug with a thin copper coating tohid the sanctioned "counterfeiting".  And there's alread a move afoot to eliminate the penny, because or fake money is so inflated we can't even make zinc pennies affordably anymore.
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The Rabbi

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2006, 08:17:41 AM »
Quote from: richyoung
Quote from: The Rabbi
I remember seeing the same garbage in the early 1970s.  Wasn't valid then.  Isn't valid now.
Ron Paul is 100% right.  The fact is we don't have money - we don't even have currency.  And ALL of this is in direct contradiction to the Constitution.
Then send me all of your non-money and non-currency right now!

I guess you missed Article 1 Section 8.
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Nathaniel Firethorn

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2006, 08:27:04 AM »
Quote
We need to go on a world wide "Calorie Standard"...so many calories in a barrel of oil, bushel of grain, pound of meat, watt of electricity, therm of natural gas.

That would level the playing field.
A bizarre little group called The Technocratic Movement tried to do that in the 1930s. Their theory was that floating currency was the cause of the Depression and they wanted to tie to something with a physical meaning. Their units of exchange were ergs rather than calories. No one paid them much attention, and eventually they bored themselves into oblivion.

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cosine

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2006, 09:04:24 AM »
Interesting read. Thanks!
Andy

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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2006, 09:47:00 AM »
I had a bit more respect for Ron Paul before I read this.  Sad

Justin

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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2006, 10:32:59 AM »
Quote
Zero calories in gold.
So a pound of body fat is worth more than a pound of gold?

Can't use body fat to build circuits.
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Moondoggie

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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2006, 12:37:25 PM »
The Romans, etc weren't thinking about circuits when gold became a thing of value.

Besides, body fat is easier to carry around with you.....everybody does it!  Just kinda sticks to your ribs.  Smiley

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Otherguy Overby

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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2006, 01:29:58 PM »
Here's a hint:  There was a conspiracy.   Just google up "Philander Knox" mentioned in the 11th paragraph of what Sindawe posted.

You'll find out he's the one who fraudulently verified the states vote on the 16th ammendment making income tax "constitutional".

BTW, forming the Federal Reserve was also a conspiracy.  Ever wonder why there's a Federal Reserve room at the Jekyll Island resort?
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bermbuster

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2006, 03:56:35 PM »
Quote from: Otherguy Overby
.....
BTW, forming the Federal Reserve was also a conspiracy.  Ever wonder why there's a Federal Reserve room at the Jekyll Island resort?
Do tell.

Antibubba

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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2006, 05:31:15 PM »
I don't read the central message as "We must return to gold".  But he is arguing that our dollar is backed up by nothing but confidence.  Eventually the majority of the world will place it's confidence elsewhere.  Gold may not be edible nor produce energy, but people find value in it.

I must pay more attention to my regular precious metal purchases, or start making time to go panning.
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Otherguy Overby

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2006, 10:37:35 AM »
Quote from: bermbuster
Quote from: Otherguy Overby
.....
BTW, forming the Federal Reserve was also a conspiracy.  Ever wonder why there's a Federal Reserve room at the Jekyll Island resort?
Do tell.
Cut and paste the following into google:

"Federal Reserve" "Jekyll Island"


You'll find enough reading for the rest of your life.
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The Rabbi

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2006, 02:53:00 PM »
Quote from: Antibubba
I don't read the central message as "We must return to gold".  But he is arguing that our dollar is backed up by nothing but confidence.  Eventually the majority of the world will place it's confidence elsewhere.  Gold may not be edible nor produce energy, but people find value in it.

I must pay more attention to my regular precious metal purchases, or start making time to go panning.
But its been this way since the 1930s and people have been predicting the demise of the dollar for about as long.  Won't happen as long as the US is the major power economically and militarily.  The downsides of going to a gold standard are a lot more than any upside.
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Waitone

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2006, 04:14:08 PM »
I'll believe we are serious about fixing the tax system only when the Federal Reserve is disbanded.  Federal taxes and the federal reserve banking system are different wings on the same plane.

Rep. Paul does indeed offer in interesting perspective.  Now did he offer any solutions?

Google up "The Coming Battle" a book out of print for a real long time.  It is now available on the internet as a pdf download.  It is a history of central banking in America.  Some of the things said in the early 1800's are amazingly up to date.  Its a good read.
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gunsmith

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2006, 09:07:12 PM »
Saddam was taped threatening the USA with terror, Hannity recently played these tapes.
The guy (abu abbas or abu nidal or something) who planned the attack on a cruise ship that killed Leon Klinghoffer was living in Bagdhad.
he was enough of a threat, though my thinking is we just needed an air base/ army base in the region so we didn't have to beg reluctant Turkey and S. Arabia for permission to land troops.

Hannity played an interview with an Iraqi general under Saddam, he said he sent the WMD's to Syria.

I met lots of Iraqi's in SF they alled seemed supportive of the war, I've met lots of Iranians who hate the current leadership,  I really like the Iranian people I've met ..I sure hope it doesn;t go nuke over there.

I've recently started reading Al Jazeera ...it's amazing!  I feel like I'm reading the Democrat talking points
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280plus

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2006, 04:29:43 AM »
I hear gold prospecting is coming back into fashion...

I get a kick out of the whole thing. If you stop and think about it, the whole world monetary system comes from nothing. It is a concept totally contrived by man to expedite the trading of goods. What makes gold worth anything? From my reading on Australian history I can tell you the Aboriginal tribes there considered gold to be a worthless metal because it had no practical use. They would happily gather up a bunch and trade you for some iron. With iron he could make better weapons and with those feed and protect his family. Think a little more. If it all collapses and there is no way for you to buy food to feed yourself and your family. Would you rather have gold or iron?
Avoid cliches like the plague!

richyoung

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2006, 06:39:15 PM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
Quote from: richyoung
Quote from: The Rabbi
I remember seeing the same garbage in the early 1970s.  Wasn't valid then.  Isn't valid now.
Ron Paul is 100% right.  The fact is we don't have money - we don't even have currency.  And ALL of this is in direct contradiction to the Constitution.
Then send me all of your non-money and non-currency right now!

I guess you missed Article 1 Section 8.
"Section 8.  lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


To borrow money on the credit of the United States;


To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;


To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;


To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;


To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;


To establish post offices and post roads;


To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;


To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;


To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;


To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;


To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;


To provide and maintain a navy;


To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;


To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And


To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof. "

Operative words are, for this discusion, "The Congress shall have power ...To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin,...""

Except that that power, (just like the power to collect taxes), which is NOT delegatable or assignable, isn't being exercised by Congress.  New scrip, which is NOT money  - only coinage in precious metal is actually money- is distributed by the Treasury Department - part of the Executive branch, not the legislative. Its actually printed by the Federal Reserve, which isn't even part of ANY branch of the governemt - its about as "Federal" as Federal Express!  Money is precious metal, or something that can be exchanged for some, like the old "silver certificates".  Federal Reserve Notes, which we mistakenly call "money", aren't anything of value, even indirectly.  They are, in fact, a DEBT INSTRUMENT - just like a check.  If you examine one, you will see it has everything a check has, the bank its drawn on (Federal Reserve System), a number (serial), two signatures (Treasurer of the United States/Secretary of Treasury), an amount in both numbers and written out,  and account name (Department of Treasury).  They are, in essence, rubber checks.
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Bogie

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2006, 04:23:23 AM »
Campers, people keep talking about a fiat currency.... Clue-bat: Gold is a fiat currency. It doesn't matter; it's just a means of compact exchange. Rather than taking 100 chickens to buy your new stereo, you take a half-ounce of gold.
 
A currency doesn't need backing. It needs use. When I take a coupla bucks to the store, I don't want $2 worth of gold. I want $2 worth of hamburger. And I get that.
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280plus

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2006, 04:47:10 AM »
Exactly...

What makes gold worth anything?
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Sindawe

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Before the US House of Representatives, February 15, 2006
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2006, 05:57:09 AM »
Quote
What makes gold worth anything?
The desire of others to possess it. With gold, this is based on its perceived intrinsic value (since one can't eat gold and live for long due to its lack of nutritional value), its ornamental value and currently its value in technology.

The U.S. Dollar has value now due to it being backed by the "full faith and credit" of the United States, and that all oil transactions take place in the dollar.  It is not backed by any other tangable thing like precious metals or resources.
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