Sick of anti-smoking ads!

[mtnbkr]

I would love to see the majority of smokers quit so my medical insurance can go down.

I would love to see the majority of ________ quit so my medical insurance can go down.

drinkers, overeaters, clumsy buffoons, skydivers, motorcyclists, sluts (male and female), people who refuse to exercise (doesn't quite fit the sentence structure), etc.  

There's a whole lot of control we can exert over the population in order to reduce your rates.  Where should we start?

Chris

[onions!]

I would love to see the majority of smokers quit so my medical insurance can go down.  In the meantime there is arm-twisting.

Let's add old people too!& HIV/AIDS patients!& those w/disabilities!& cancer-current or in remission!& definately those w/kids!(little snot nosed hospital magnets!).Oh yeah,& people who drive more than 0 miles per month.

Say anyone over forty cannot get a policy period.& if you're under forty & you've used your insurance for anything but check-ups in the last year you go on double secret probation for the next.Do it again & you're gone!

Lower rates for everyone!Utopia!

I wonder how long it would take the insurance industry to collapse given the above criteria?Months?Weeks?

[The Rabbi]

I would love to see the majority of smokers quit so my medical insurance can go down.

I would love to see the majority of ________ quit so my medical insurance can go down.

drinkers, overeaters, clumsy buffoons, skydivers, motorcyclists, sluts (male and female), people who refuse to exercise (doesn't quite fit the sentence structure), etc.  

There's a whole lot of control we can exert over the population in order to reduce your rates.  Where should we start?

Chris

All kinds of places.  But if you are happy subsidizing someone else's poor lifestyle choices then more power to ya.

[roo_ster]

Rabbi:

Sorry, I share some of your feelings, but your argument does not hold water in two ways:

1.a. If your health insurance is provided by your employer, your employer is doing the subsidizing.  He is subsidizing..YOU...to the tune of whatever portion of the premium he pays for you.  In the vast majority of cases, what the employer kicks in far outweighs the higher premiums caused by employees who do smoke.

1.b. If you pay your own health insurance, you can check the "Non-smoker" box and get a lower rate.

2. From an actuarial angle, smokers use fewer health care dollars* than non-smokers.  See, they tend to die earlier & faster due to smoking-related ailments.

* You can include Social Security in the net smoker cost savings.  "They die & we enjoy the benefits!"

[280plus]

Back to the original question, and I apologize for the tangent I took back there. While I can't say they bother me personally, I DO think it is wrong that gov't (our) money is spent on harrassing smokers with TV ads. And don't get me wrong, I only go into a few certain bars occasionally these days just for dinner. But it IS really wierd to go into a bar and have it smell almost "pretty". LOL...

You can't find a speedbag in a gym anymore and bars smell "pretty". What's this world coming to?

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi:

Sorry, I share some of your feelings, but your argument does not hold water in two ways:

1.a. If your health insurance is provided by your employer, your employer is doing the subsidizing.  He is subsidizing..YOU...to the tune of whatever portion of the premium he pays for you.  In the vast majority of cases, what the employer kicks in far outweighs the higher premiums caused by employees who do smoke.

1.b. If you pay your own health insurance, you can check the "Non-smoker" box and get a lower rate.

2. From an actuarial angle, smokers use fewer health care dollars* than non-smokers.  See, they tend to die earlier & faster due to smoking-related ailments.

* You can include Social Security in the net smoker cost savings.  "They die & we enjoy the benefits!"

1) Employer-paid health insurance is not free to you.  There is no such thing as free health insurance period.
2. Obviously non smokers pay lower rates than smokers.  But it is irrelevant.  Smokers drive up costs of medical insurance and medical services.  My older brother, who works in hospice care in KY, estimates that 80% of his patients are there for things caused directly or indirectly by lifestyle choices.  If everyone quit smoking, ate properly, and did some mild exercise there would be no health care crisis.
3. While smokers die faster and younger than non smokers, they also tend to have more severe illnesses, more missed days from work, and generally are in poorer health.  They use a disproportiate amount of health care resources.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

You know what the "N word" is?

Smokers are the new "N's."

- NF

[The Rabbi]

The demonization of smokers is simply racism/bigotry in another form that is socially acceptable.

[auschip]

You know what the "N word" is?

Smokers are the new "N's."

- NF

Then what does that make cigar smokers?  Want a dirty look? light a cigar in the smoking section.  You would think I peed in the ashtray.

[280plus]

I think you SHOULD pee in the ashtray. Only for fun though.

[Strings]

This isn't a question of "should people stop smoking or not?", but "should the government be allowed to tell private business owners what they can or can't do in their establishment. Personally, I think they shouldn't: I may be a smoker, but I've been known to frequent places that have a "no smoking" policy. But I also like being able to have a smoke while I play a game of pool...

[The Rabbi]

This isn't a question of "should people stop smoking or not?", but "should the government be allowed to tell private business owners what they can or can't do in their establishment. Personally, I think they shouldn't: I may be a smoker, but I've been known to frequent places that have a "no smoking" policy. But I also like being able to have a smoke while I play a game of pool...

On that particular issue I agree completely.  There obviously are areas where the gov;t can tell business owners what they can do but I dont think this is one of them.

[M14rick]

I will have to stand with 280plus on this one....and I was smoking Camels before I ever heard of Joe Camel, and when there was only one choice of Camel cigarette!  I quit in '96, hate the smell any more.
     As far as bars go, I don't go in 'em, since I went on the wagon in '98.
     Doesn't mean I don't crave a double Scotch, and a Camel sometimes, when the stress level gets up!

[Strings]

>On that particular issue I agree completely.  There obviously are areas where the gov;t can tell business owners what they can do but I dont think this is one of them.<

Ok... somebody write today down on the calender: the Rabbi and I agreed on sumthin'!

[280plus]

That's it, take a break! Smoke em if ya got em!

[Guest]

2. Obviously non smokers pay lower rates than smokers.  But it is irrelevant.  Smokers drive up costs of medical insurance and medical services.  My older brother, who works in hospice care in KY, estimates that 80% of his patients are there for things caused directly or indirectly by lifestyle choices.  If everyone quit smoking, ate properly, and did some mild exercise there would be no health care crisis.

psssst...

everyone dies regardless of choices. People who dont smoke hang on longer, collect more social security, collect more welfare, collect more medical benefits.

It costs a lot more to support a person from the age of 60-80 than it does to watch a 60 year old man die of cancer.

There is also a nice big universal argument against all of these "it costs society" arguments. The fact is that society doesnt *have* to pay for anything. If you dont want to pay for other people, dont get insurance. One has to wonder why people would rather control the lifestyles of others than fix an obviously broken system, could it all just be an excuse?

[Guest]

does anybody else think that part of the little hillbilly dive bar's appeal, is that no matter where you are in the country, you can walk in and smell that comforting smell of slightly (not overpowering...yuk) lingering smoke and the subtle, underlying stale/sweet beer smell, with the low lights,  worn bar and old jukebox in the corner,  with a pair of tired old pooltables...    its a comfort smell.  elimanate the old smoke and beer smell and its just another lounge with lousy food :-P

[Brad Johnson]

If we use the "it costs society" mantra, then unhealthy diets must be made illegal. Cars must be made illegal. Running, jumping, and playing sports of any kind will be illegal, although it is also illegal to not exercise. Carried to it's logical conclusion, everyone will be required to be encased in plastic and fed by tube. That way, society knows exactly what the cost will be from cradle to grave on a per diem basis. The only variables will be genetics, and those will be tightly controlled and monitored by the government with only the most healthy genetic specimens allowed to progress beyond initial conception.

Short of that, the "it costs" nazis are nothing more than a bunch of do-gooders who've discovered and emotionally-charged way to control someone else's life. The cost of society is, well... , the cost of society.

If you want to endanger yourself, fine. Just don't expect me to have much sympathy for your plight. But don't start poking your snotty nose into my business just because you don't approve of my lifestyle choices. And don't you DARE try to control my private lifestyle choices by whining about how it "encroaches" on your precious freedoms. If you think you are free to exercise your whiney control over me just because you don't like the way I live, I may feel free to burn your house to the ground. Hey, freedom isn't free. And you wanted to be in the fresh air anyway.

Brad

[280plus]

Ahhh, nothing like friendly conversation...

[auschip]

Ahhh, nothing like friendly conversation...

And as this is written, I am contemplating smoking one of the Montecristo #4s in my humidor.

[Strings]

Brad, if I ever have kids, I'm naming one after you!

[280plus]

And as this is written, I am contemplating smoking one of the Montecristo #4s in my humidor

I'll be honest with you. One of mycustomers is a tobacco shop with a walk in humidor. Every time I go in that humidor and see and smell all those pretty cigars I kick myself in the ass for quitting smoking!

[Brad Johnson]

Brad, if I ever have kids, I'm naming one after you!

Be afraid, be very afraid...

Brad

p.s. - Thanks for the compliment!

[Justin]

Understood but WE are the gov't. Supposedly anyhow. So if the majority of us decide that smoking is best done outside doesn't that obligate the losing minority to comply? If they don't like the law, their option is to gain the majority and change the law. I find it disheartening that, given all we know about the effects of smoking, that it TAKES a gov't mandate to protect those of us who chose not to smoke from ingesting someone else's second hand smoke. I would much rather see a majority of smokers who are responsible enough to accept this and be courteous with their smoking than to have to force them to do so. But that comes under the heading of "When pigs grow wings and fly."

Gee, I guess that, oh, I dunno, THE GUY WHO OWNS THE FRIGGIN' PROPERTY shouldn't get a say in what he does with it.

Won't somebody please think of the children?

[280plus]

Public is public, private is private. See, I've already explained to you that smoking or just the lingering odor of it affects me. Now I'm not a lightweight about it, I don't say a word. Well, except for a few posts ago. On the other hand, my NOT smoking has no effect on you. But that's ok, you think you should be able to do whatever you please and screw everybody else. And it's not the big gov't feds in there banning smoking. It's your local govts. Just like, it's not the feds banning your right to carry in NYC. It's NYC. I'm not here on this board to "listen" to people get nasty, up to this point it's been a better place than that. How quickly things change here on the "net".

There's too much freedom in this country. Everybody's freedoms get in the way of everybody else's freedoms.

That's a JOKE! Try to take it as one.