Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Jim147 on March 24, 2011, 11:00:25 PM
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My back is hurting a bit again.
I carried my XD45 today. It's not a heavy piece but it does weigh me down by the end of the day.
I'm thinking about getting a super light carry piece and keep the heavy stuff in the truck.
(I have a pair of B2's overhead I got a little distracted. Actually the second one was overhead when I heard the first one. Have you ever seen a B1B at high speed ground level. ;) )
But anyway, I was thinking about an NAA Mini or a little pocket derringer. I know they make some small .380's and 9's these days but I haven't shot any of them.
What are you carrying that is small?
jim
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The NAA mini and those derringers are stupid for general carry, IMHO, and seem to make the most sales to the "Taurus Judge" type crowd as a backup piece.
Go, at a minimum, with one of the little Kel-Tecs or Rugers or similar...Very small, rather light, and still usable.
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My PF9 is about as small as I would go with a firearm. It's very carryable and with the right ammo, very reliable. NAA mini revolvers are terrifying and I have trouble even thinking of them as weapons.
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http://www.surefire.com/Flashlights
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There are a number of rather small and light .380 or 9mm pocket poppers out there. They will be much much better than a NAA or derringer.
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Kel tec PF9 or P3AT. Done.
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P3AT or one of the ridiculously light Smiths like a 342 or 340. Now just because it says .357 doesn't mean you have to put them in there.
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I'll take a look at the Keltechs and a light stubnose is something that sounds good to me.
I forgot to mention the Rugar LCP just doesn't work in my hands. I've had arthritis since i was about 22.
jim
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I bought my Taurus TCP (.380) specifically as a lightweight compact carry while I am on the bicycles and motorcycles.
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Beretta 21a.
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"like a 342 or 340"
I've got both the AirLite and the AirWeight versions. The titanium/scandium one is so amazingly light that it feels like an empty water pistol when you pick it up. No. Don't fire .357s in that, "even though it says so on the barrel." I can handle 125gr +Ps in it, or regular .38s with 158 grain bullets, but that's as far as I'll go.
I actually usually carry the steel one, which is slightly heavier, but only because I'm less concerned with the blued finish than with the anodized finish on the scandium one in terms of regular pocket wear.
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My brother had one of the first S&W scandium j-frames, and it was a nice little revolver (emphasis on "little"). Five rounds of .38 in a 14.7 ounce package is doing pretty good.
I haven't shot the Kel-Tec's or the LCP or Taurus TCP, so I can only go by others' complaint or observations.
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I have a Sig P238 for pocket carry. It's been great for me. Also, of all the pocket .380's I tried it shoots the softest and is the easiest to hit things with. I still have my NAA in the safe somewhere, but I don't even take it to the range anymore.
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I've carried nothing but a S&W 37 (Airweight 38spec) for the past 5 years. Pocket or belt carry, same gun all the time.
Chris
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I swap between a P-32 and a S&W 332 titanium airweight in .32 H&R Mag in my pocket. More terminal energy than a .38 and it's 6 shots. Georgia Arms has good ammo for it. 100 GR ~ 1000 fps. The 332 is no longer available, it is a 432 now. Steel cylinder instead of titanium. A little heavier but ~$200 cheaper.
http://www.smithwessonhandguns.com/item/65746_Smith__Wesson_Hand_Guns_Pistols_SW_432PD_2_32HR_MAG_BL_.aspx
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My back is hurting a bit again.
I carried my XD45 today. It's not a heavy piece but it does weigh me down by the end of the day.
jim
A gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. - Clint Smith
Do you have a back injury? if you do, then I can understand wanting a lighter gun, otherwise I recommend you strengthen your back through exercise. If you're as fit as you will ever be, then you need to take a look at how you carry the gun. A proper belt and holster combination can really help.
Finally, have you considered using a smaller XD? You may be able to use the same equipment you have now, and you won't have to learn a new gun.
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For me, light and small means my Smith 642. Anything smaller I've tried just doesn't work with my hands. And the pocket autos, well, I worry that Mr. Murphy is going to put a dust bunny or lint ball in the wrong spot and cause a jam, while the closed mechanism of the 642 won't have that issue. Yeah, I know, odds of that happening are pretty slim, but that's my choice.
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1911 barrel and a tack hammer with the face ground to a rounded point.
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Kahr PM9 in a Crossbreed MiniTuck holster. So comfortable I can easily forget its there, but then it also helps that I have a permanent 1911 sized divet over my right hip.
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Here's a nice, small, light pistol :laugh:.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F8%2F8e%2FKolibri_AdamsGuns.jpg%2F300px-Kolibri_AdamsGuns.jpg&hash=fe643967ac1b462a4a5ccfa8c29f149081955c61)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_mm_Kolibri
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My "always" gun is an S&W 340Sc, loaded with 145 grain .357 Silvertips. I put on a set of Crimson Trace grips that covers the backstrap with rubber, so it's merely unpleasant - rather than painful - to shoot. At least for a few cylinders . . . it's not a good choice for an extended range session with .357's. ;)
I carry it in a pocket holster, and it's very light indeed, without the functioning problems that are endemic around small autos. (A year or two back American Rifleman tested a large selection of, IIRC, .380 autos - all but ONE experienced malfunctions during the testing.)
A good stiff belt and proper holster go a long way towards making a larger gun more comfortable. Galco makes a belt with a leather face and hard rubber backing that won't sag, and the Milt Sparks Versa-Max II is about as comforable as an IWB holster will get; I have one for a 1911, and it works nicely for my BHP.
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I met a guy once who claimed to keep a .22 pistol under his shirt using a .22 bore brush attached to a chain around his neck, pushed down the barrel.
I didn't think it was a particularly safe idea, but I'll float it out there.
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Ruger LCP in a DeSantis Pocket Pal. Perfect for the hip pocket in your jeans or the front pocket of your dress slacks. It's my American Express card... I don't leave home without it.
Brad
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I met a guy once who claimed to keep a .22 pistol under his shirt using a .22 bore brush attached to a chain around his neck, pushed down the barrel.
I didn't think it was a particularly safe idea, but I'll float it out there.
lol, I have an image of him drawing by yanking the pistol down then the bore brush on the chain recoils and sticks in his eye!
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A gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. - Clint Smith
Do you have a back injury? if you do, then I can understand wanting a lighter gun, otherwise I recommend you strengthen your back through exercise. If you're as fit as you will ever be, then you need to take a look at how you carry the gun. A proper belt and holster combination can really help.
Finally, have you considered using a smaller XD? You may be able to use the same equipment you have now, and you won't have to learn a new gun.
Win.
XD9sc or XD40sc would be good to consider.
13 rounds of 45acp is heavy.
10 rounds of 9mm is MUCH lighter. While still being respectable firepower and capable of accepting the longer full-sized magazines from Springfield (16rd) or MecGar (18rd).
But, try the following first:
-Each morning, wake up and do 50 stomach crunches and 20 push-ups. Next week, make it 75/25. Then 100/30. Your core muscles will get stronger and carry will hurt less.
-If you don't have one yet, get a proper bullhide gun belt. Make sure you're not cinching it tight around your waist. It should ride on your hips and support the gun, not squeeze into your kidneys.
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Ruger also has the recently-released LC9. I haven't seen one personally, but a friend has and he was highly impressed with the compactness and light weight.
Brad
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I'm am asking because of a back injury. Surgery on a few disc's back in '01. This wouldn't be an everyday carry, just when I'm hurting.
I sat in an all day meeting on Wednesday and then spent yesterday catching up on paper work so I'm a little tight this week.
I do notice my belt is starting to get a little soft. I'll have to start looking for one of those also.
I need to bring my refrigerant scale up sometime today and weigh some pistols. I have an old alloy frame stubnose that doesn't feel much lighter then the XD. I can't find the little Erma. I used to carry that in a pocket some. I must have loaned it out.
Maybe I'll take a trip to the gunshop this weekend to see what they have in.
jim
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I've got an S&W J-frame 442 (.38SPL+P) for my light carry. It's 12.5oz unloaded (IIRC). I got it brand new on sale for something like $309.
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I have the Ruger LCP as an off duty gun.
It is small, inacurate, difficult to hold, and only is .380.
That said, it is small, only as inacurate as the shooter, not meant to be held a lot, and all of the above because it is .380.
The .380 cal is sufficient as a last resort round, me and bad guy in parking lot a few feet apart. The size of the grip can be mitigated some with the little magazine thingy to add on so the weapon can be sorta held.
This weapon is not nearly so well made as my HK stuff, but it is also substantially less expensive.
Is this a good carry piece that is really small and fairly reliable?
Absolutely!!
You will not be taking several hundred meter sniper shots with it.
It basically has no real sights.....kinda look down the top slide....
Yeah, I like it for what it is and does.
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My back is hurting a bit again.
I carried my XD45 today. It's not a heavy piece but it does weigh me down by the end of the day.
I'm thinking about getting a super light carry piece and keep the heavy stuff in the truck.
(I have a pair of B2's overhead I got a little distracted. Actually the second one was overhead when I heard the first one. Have you ever seen a B1B at high speed ground level. ;) )
But anyway, I was thinking about an NAA Mini or a little pocket derringer. I know they make some small .380's and 9's these days but I haven't shot any of them.
What are you carrying that is small?
jim
PF9. Ruger's plastic wheelgun comes in about that same weight.
I had a chance to run some rounds through a .357 LCR over last weekend. Interesting. .38 through that should be easy.
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JMO- a 5 shot snubbie is great- if you have another gun to go with it- if you need a gun, you are going to NEED a GUN- I have read far too many accounts of failures to stop, multiple opponents, etc. to go with a slow to reload, five shot 38. Thugs tend to run in groups.
JMO- most blowback 380's are unreliable- very ammo sensitive-
There have been a bunch of slim, single stack 9mm carry guns offered in the last few years- Kel tec, the new ruger, and a new kimber
Most of them have a 7 +1 capacity, and weigh about 18-20 oz. You might look at a Glock 30 single stack .45, and the Kahr line of pistols also.
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JMO- a 5 shot snubbie is great- if you have another gun to go with it- if you need a gun, you are going to NEED a GUN- I have read far too many accounts of failures to stop, multiple opponents, etc. to go with a slow to reload, five shot 38. Thugs tend to run in groups.
JMO- most blowback 380's are unreliable- very ammo sensitive-
There have been a bunch of slim, single stack 9mm carry guns offered in the last few years- Kel tec, the new ruger, and a new kimber
Most of them have a 7 +1 capacity, and weigh about 18-20 oz. You might look at a Glock 30 single stack .45, and the Kahr line of pistols also.
Agree completely with everything but Kahr. Their stainless guns can be made reliable but are heavy. The polymers are like a new age Para-Ordnance lottery. You get a good one and you're set. If not....
The locked breech micro .380s are pretty good, but I did sell my P3AT for concern with keeping up with it's maintenance. Replace springs, lovingly clean, test fire, repeat. Mine was reliable while I had it. That said, revolvers are no magic cure. I dropped my 325 this summer. Dropped while walking on the beach at the surf line. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: That only took a few hours to get operational. *Well, that's how long it took to disassemble to the last screw and flush everything repeatedly. I gingerly tried the trigger once when it was full of sand. No chance that gun would have worked.
*Lost the trigger bar during disassembly, so it's still dead. (See procrastination thread.) I guess if I wanted it running badly enough I'd cannibalize my 625 for the part until I ordered another. Revolvers can go wrong huge when they do go wrong.
J-Frame should be a 2nd gun, but sometimes a person is only going to carry one no matter what, so a light J-frame is miles better than terse words.
And hey, when they're not hanging out on the beach a 325 is a great lightweight carry piece in a real caliber!
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I have some nerve damage in my spine that makes me prone to back spasms. I had to stop carrying my XD45 for the same reason. I went to a M&P340 Smith and haven't looked back.
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Old High Standard 9 shot 22. I carry it sometimes around the place for pest control: 20.5 oz
Combat Commander: 43.5 oz
XD45 Service: 39 oz
All fully loaded.
I guess that little pistol is lighter than I thought.
I'll pull a few more out tonight and see what they way.
jim
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If you have back issues, I was going to suggest it may not be the weight but the pressure in the wrong place or something. Try carrying in a different spot a few days. At the least, a pocket pistol like the Kel-Tecs and S&W Airweights will provide a different fit and feel and give your back a break. Kel-Tec makes a pretty small 9mm also.
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P3AT or one of the ridiculously light Smiths like a 342 or 340. Now just because it says .357 doesn't mean you have to put them in there.
That thar is wisdom...
Alloy J-frames are made to forget you are carrying them, scandium or old-school aluminum.
Maybe an Officer's ACP (3.5" bbl) or Defender (3.0" bbl) sized 1911 with an alloy frame. Light and slim. Maybe even get it in 9mm, like my wife's.
Perhaps it is not the weight giving you fits, but the bulk or pressure? If so, a slim auto could be the ticket.
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Perhaps it is not the weight giving you fits, but the bulk or pressure? If so, a slim auto could be the ticket.
Exactly why I favor the p32 these days.
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My wallet in my back pocket has wrecked more of me than any full size gun ever could. Now I get smart and take it out while driving.
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You can forget you're carrying a Kel-Tec P3AT... To the point where you're digging for change, and.... Oops...
A P3AT in your pocket beats the heck out of a Deagle that you left at home in the safe.
I know a guy who thunderwears a Scandium Smith .44 magnum... He's insane. In a good way...
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CNYCacher:
I met a guy once who claimed to keep a .22 pistol under his shirt using a .22 bore brush attached to a chain around his neck, pushed down the barrel.
I didn't think it was a particularly safe idea, but I'll float it out there.
Strange. I could never pull a bronze bore brush backwards out of a barrel, once you shove it in. You can do it, but you have to twist the brush so the bristles sort of flatten out sideways as you're pulling on the brush. That's why pistol bore brushes are shorter than rifle brushes... so they will clear the barrel and on pulling it back out, the bristles will turn the other way.
In fact, one of the ways to attempt to remove a broken case from a chamber is to stick a shotgun bronze bore brush in there so the bristles grab the inside of the case and then you yank on it.
Maybe it was a fiber brush, or perhaps one of those spiral ones, but I wouldn't want to trust one of those to have enough grabbance for the gun to stay put.
And it is inherently unsafe. Imagine the muzzle pointed directly at your chin as you yank on the gun to free it. That wouldn't be classed as an accident. That would be classed as a suicide.
I don't think he's crazy in a good way.
(I agree with the poster who remarked about the wallet in his back pocket causing back pain. I only learned this about a year and a half ago. I keep it on a chain and park it 'twixt my legs when driving, so when I get out of the car, there's no chance of forgetting it or having it fall out on the pavement as I exit the car. It bangs on my knees if I forget to grab it.)
Terry, 230RN
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I try not to toss my change in the gun pocket. I have discovered my car keys there a few times though. :laugh:
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NEF 32 H & R Mag 5 shot: 27.5 oz
Mauser Model 80 SA (Hi Power clone): 39 oz
That little NEF might get carried for a few days next week. I'm not planning on going anywhere this weekend so I'm going to carry the High Standard to try to see if it's a weight issue.
Then I'll have a better idea about weight when I go shopping.
jim
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Ruger also has the recently-released LC9. I haven't seen one personally, but a friend has and he was highly impressed with the compactness and light weight.
Brad
I got to handle one about 4 hours ago. It's like unto my KT PF9, but (no surprise) seems way better made. $369 asking price. The shop had one example, and were taking orders. The molded grip panels are, oddly, somewhat concave, and very "grippy".
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I got to handle one about 4 hours ago. It's like unto my KT PF9, but (no surprise) seems way better made. $369 asking price. The shop had one example, and were taking orders. The molded grip panels are, oddly, somewhat concave, and very "grippy".
They show it at 17.1 oz. It's 7+1 and that comes up 3.5 oz on my scale.
My "local" shop is about 40 min away but they seem to keep a pretty good stock of the latest Ruger pistols.
I've found something to look at. Thank you.
I didn't even weigh my P series Ruger. It sits in my home office and I know it always works.
jim
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You can forget you're carrying a Kel-Tec P3AT... To the point where you're digging for change, and.... Oops...
A P3AT in your pocket beats the heck out of a Deagle that you left at home in the safe.
I know a guy who thunderwears a Scandium Smith .44 magnum... He's insane. In a good way...
Ignoring the is that a .44 in your pants or... And the hey look, a snubby jokes.
I did forget I was carrying a P3at once. I carried mine with the screw on clip inside my jeans right behind my belt buckle. It would often stay clipped to pants I took off with the intention of wearing again. I get to work, go to change into work clothes and there it is. Oopsie. Work was big, gray, and getting underway for the week. Talk about hide stuff good before locker inspections. [tinfoil]
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I didn't even weigh my P series Ruger. It sits in my home office and I know it always works.
P-series guns are like John Deere farm tractors. You don't expect them to be small, light, or fast.
They show it at 17.1 oz. It's 7+1 and that comes up 3.5 oz on my scale.
Maybe (speculating) steel vs. aluminum frame (the serialized part, nestled in the grip)? Something like that would account for the weight difference vs. the PF9.
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Taking a look at the PF9 I wonder if the other weight was with or without any mag. It doesn't say on the Ruger site but the Kel-Tec says 12.7 with no mag and 14.6 with an empty mag.
jim
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Terry, 230RN
I wondered that myself. I know they don't like to reverse but I thought maybe he can yank it hard enough, or it's a weak brush ir something.
I never actually saw it. We were parking in this guy's front yard for $5 because he had the fortune of his house being really close the the Buffalo Bills stadium. He spied my pocket knife clip and warned me of security at the gates. Then apropos to almost nothing, decided to reveal to me, a complete stranger, how he sneaks his .22 into the games.
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i moved my wallet to a front pocket years back, handily a knife or flashlight rides well right next to it to. =D
much easier to carry, and no one can grab your wallet without you knowing. [tinfoil] handkerchief goes in the back pocket, bet that'll get a pick pocket mad. >:D
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I like front pocket carry, but it displaces my wallet which I find annoying. No good from seated either. I'm thinking either a cross draw or shoulder rig so I can draw while sitting.
And yes, having a full size high capacity major caliber pistol would be better. Having a rifle would be bestest, but you take what you can get...
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I know a guy who thunderwears a Scandium Smith .44 magnum... He's insane. In a good way...
I have, on occasion carried a Gov't Model in a Smartcarry, and for a short time, managed a Taurus PT99 and spare mag in there. I much prefer my .357 snub for that particular holster, though I dislike speed strips to the point that I will sometimes carry the P32 in a boot and a spare mag in the Smartcarry alongside the revolver.
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This thread got me curious enough to take my XDsc and try carrying it in the zippered inside pocket of my Columbia ROC pants around the house....a little heavy w/ a 12-rd mag, but it worked....I was thinking of limiting myself to a snub (Ruger LCR .357Mag or Charter Arms Undercover Lite .38SPL), but now I have another choice.....now I'll have to get a pocket holster for the XDsc and my CHL.....
....maybe this is your solution?..... =|
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I actually can't stand pocket carry and almost always carry the p3 strong side iwb.
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I have a P3AT with a belt clip, but I usually carry it in a jacket pocket. But I need to figure out a good way to carry my CZ-82 (it's a nice size and it's accurate and easy to shoot, but it's a little heavy) and let the P3AT just be a BUG. Mostly because it's so hard to shoot accurately and it's no fun to practice with -- the gun is accurate enough, but the sights are hard to see and the recoil hurts like hell.
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Columbia ROC
Those are great pants; I have several.
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Those are great pants; I have several.
Right about that....if I'm not wearing ROC's, I'm probably not wearing pants..... =D
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I like front pocket carry, but it displaces my wallet which I find annoying. No good from seated either. I'm thinking either a cross draw or shoulder rig so I can draw while sitting.
And yes, having a full size high capacity major caliber pistol would be better. Having a rifle would be bestest, but you take what you can get...
The Galco Miami Classic II shoulder holster works well. Not as well/nice as the best Alessi's back in the day, but you can actually buy one and have it within the decade, rather than will the future complete holster to your first born when it finally is completed.
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I don't carry anything in my back pocket. I used to live in Brooklyn and rode the subway a lot. I had a pager lifted off my belt once.
The smaller guns I carry are an LCP in a front pocket in one of these (http://unclegeorgeswalletholster.com/default.aspx), or a Kel-Tec P11 in a small pancake. Lately, though, I have been fond of a hammerless Charter Bulldog in .44 special IWB.
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For lightweight concealed, I prefer a 642 in a pocket holster.
DW owns one of the NAA .22LR revolvers. I'm not a poor shot, but can't hit a skunk at 10' with that darn thing. That's one of those "stick it in their ear and pull the trigger" guns.