Nonsmoking bringing up major life crises, need support

[Winston Smith]

I had 3 months a couple days ago, but it isn't getting easier. It seems my mind always goes there when stress is added, and right now my life is acting like a frigging vise...

I mean, I just started crying for no reason...

I excercise regularly, I have a spiritual practice, I try as hard as I can in all aspects of my life, I output a lot of energy and help alot of people.

I am an alcoholic in recovery, I have a little over year, I've helped a few people my age (16) into the program and a couple have even stuck around. I occupy a position of responsibility in the group.

My parents trust me implicitly.

My friends are very good and supportive.

I go to therapy.

What am I missing? Where do I go? I feel pointless, aimless, empty, tired. I feel the answer to this is to smoke. I felt this way about booze too.

What do I do? It hasn't gotten any easier.

I need help.

[grampster]

Winston,

     You are taking a bit much on your young shoulders my fine, courageous man.  You recognized your alcohol problem and confronted it and have been successful.  Don't take so much of the other stuff on yourself all at once.  The danger in this is that if you take on too much you are more likely to succumb to temptation and then you will be worse off.  The alcohol thing is a monumental success.  Deal with that for a bit longer until you feel more comfortable in your sobriety.
 
OK, smoking is not good, unhealthy even.  And it sounds like you may be somewhat of an addictive personality.  Lord knows I understand that.  Nothing wrong with that, you just need to direct that emotion into peaceful places.  I'm addicted to reading and napping and just staring off into space sometimes.  Good for the soul.   You are transferring your addiction to trying to stop every negative thing in your life and well as compulsively trying to help everyone else as well.
Step back my friend and take on one thing, one step at a time.  Sometimes it is better to do nothing than get buried in several projects.
I understand stress.  I have had my share in 61 years.  You are too young for stress.  You have no stress, you have growing up and changes going on in your body.  Don't be adding stuff to that natural firing up of your hormones.

Try thinking about kid stuff.  You have been dealing with too much grown up stuff.  Baseball for instance.  It's  like watching grass grow.  Watching grass grow is a good thing.  Watching a ball game is a good time to be talking to God.  He's the best friend you have and brings peace to your soul.  Maybe stop trying to deal with negative things that people should overcome, you ought to do positive things like bringing a little sunshine in some old person's day.  Lord knows there are lots of them in nursing homes and Vet's facilities.  These are ordinary people who do not have nagging addictions that you relate to and cause you to deal with the darkness, but need a little smile and a push on their wheelchair once in awhile that fires up a little sunshine in both of your lives.  
Your aimless, pointless, emptyness is being normal for someone your age.  Man, I remember the conversations I used to have with friends.  Someone would say "Let's do this" and someone would say "Who wants to". Then "Let's do that", "oh, who wants to.".  Then someone would put on a Kingston Trio Album in Hi-Fi (I'm dating myself) and maybe we'd go play some football in the street.  Kind of pointless, but I look back on it fondly.  Pointless, aimless stuff is the thing of fond memory.
Hang in there pal.  You are getting back to normal.  That's what I see in your post...normal, everyday boredom.  Thank the Lord.

[Dannyboy]

Suck it up, man.  It will pass.  I just hit 4 weeks smoke-free this weekend.  It will pass.

[Standing Wolf]

I'm going through hell tryingusually successfullyto hold things down to a pack a day.

[esheato]

After 10 years and multiple quits...I woke up feeling so horrible one morning that I put 'em down and haven't picked them back up.  That was last November...Thanksgiving Day weekend in fact.

My truck doesn't stink, my house smells great....I'm saving between $5-10 A DAY by kicking the habit....

Damn't if I don't feel like a brand new man too.  

You've come way to far to fall into those vices again. Keep at it Winston.

Ed

[Guest]

grampster -

Well stated!!

Winston - you have taken steps one day at a time for Alcohol. You know these 12 steps are used for Smoking, Gambling, Sex, Weight...

You cannot handle more than you can.

Now I am gonna get flamed - but hey, I am a Reprobate, Just turned 50, and been sober 21 years.  Don't mean nothing still have to add a $1.50 to get a cup of coffee...

I didn't start smoking until I was 25. Sure I had tried them, I was 25 when I actually started. Now I went for the brass ring and damn near got it a few times in my drinking days...About age 21 I really started, and went flat out full bore until I hit 28 - almost 29 years old. Neve got pulled over for smoking, Never lost a vehicle, or Airplane...or..orwhle smoking..drinking now is another story...

I focused on Sobriety, taking baby steps and breathing in and out. I was sober almost two years before I found out I could "get mad"...that was nice to know I could have that emotion

I did quit smoking for a bit...then being a older returning student, recently divorced...and taking Chemistry, under a Anti....I started smoking again and have since. Never even entertained the thought of quitting.

Sobriety is more important to me - I lose that - I am dead. Recall one does not "start from scratch"?  One picks up where they left off... I know - see I started back drinking when I had about a year in the program on my first attempt. IN 3 weeks I was right back to where I was the previous year - as if I had never stopped.

That time, I got a better look of hell, smelled the brimstone, and the flames a bit too close...So for 21 years - for me...best not take that first drink.

So I have been "dropping" less and less worries as I age. Folks know I have been through a really tough time...Life happens...I am still sober.

If one has faith - no room for worry. If you worry - no room for faith.

Screw it, I don't get around or allow negative folks to have power over me. I smoke, if it pisses off someone, that is there problem. If it worries them, that is there problem...They have to learn to deal with it...

Me...gonna be selfish and take care of me - if I don't - I cannot be there for when I need to be for others...

To keep it - give it away.

One has to have it in order to do so though...

[Sergeant Bob]

I'm going through hell tryingusually successfullyto hold things down to a pack a day.

I smoked for 35 years and and tried the "patch" (actually I woke up in the hospital on Mar 16 wearing it, but you've already heard that story www.armedpolitesociety.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=356 )" target="_blank">How I quit smoking the hard way (a cautionary tale) and it worked great for me. I highly recommend you give it a try.

[kfranz]

I feel pointless, aimless, empty, tired. I feel the answer to this is to smoke. I felt this way about booze too.

Stop feeling, start thinking.  You'll find life MUCH easier to manage once you switch this paradigm.  Life will still pose difficulties, but at least you'll have a framework for dealing with them.

[BobCat]

Winston,

Check this thread out:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011271

[K Frame]

Try volunteering in a hospital or homeless shelter.

Nothing like other people's adversity to help you put your own into perspective.

[El Tejon]

There is a life beyond yourself.  Go find it.

[Penman]

You have taken on the task of quitting two very addictive drugs, in a time of life when there are many questions that seem to have no clear cut answers. I know of people who quit smoking ten minutes at a time: they would tell thamselves that they could hold off on a cigarette for ten minutes. At the end of that time, they would say that they could hold off another ten minutes, etc. The advice on finding a volunteer activity is good, there are many agencies that can use help, and it would be even better if it's one that does not allow smoking in their program. Good luck, you are doing good to reach out to others.

[Antibubba]

Winston, you're here in California-time to become a fine coffee aficionado!  Good coffee is a joy, and the caffeine habit is a much easier one to break.  

   As for "Crying for no reason", you ARE crying for a reason.  It's just that, before, when you drank and smoked, you numbed yourself before you could get there.  Crying is a neccessary emotional release, even for us men.  Don't fight it (In fact, if you can cry in front of the right emotionally supportive girl...).

   Have you considered reloading?

[bountyhunter]

"What am I missing? Where do I go? I feel pointless, aimless, empty, tired. I feel the answer to this is to smoke. I felt this way about booze too."

"I mean, I just started crying for no reason..."

Could definitely be clinical depression, MUCH more common than people realize.  Get to a doctor and see about some of the new medications.  You health will be better on one of the new anti-depressants than smoking coffin nails.

[duck hunt]

sm, your post was very well said.  I actually didn't start smoking until after I quit drinking.  I was having a really bad night, sitting in my one room apartment feeling sorry for myself, thinking about going down to the corner and getting a drink.  And there was a pack of cigarettes on the coffee table a friend had left, and damned if I didn't feel a little more rational after I'd smoked a couple.

Is nicotine a drug?  Sure it is.  Just like sex, television, coffee and religion.  Some drugs kill me faster than others.  I can't drink, period.  Smoking a few cigarettes a day helped me scrape by for a long time.  I did quit smoking, about ten years later, and I make no apologies for waiting.  

One of my friends chucked his pack of cigarettes in the trash on his way into his first AA meeting.  The guy behind him pulled them out and handed them back to him, saying "what do you want, for your head to explode?"  There is no shame in tackling one addiction at a time.

I warn you about seeing a headshrinker at this stage in your recovery.  If you do, make sure you find one who understands alcoholism and recovery.  Early recovery "symptoms" can mirror clinical depression and you may find yourself on meds before you know what hit you.  It's happened to more friends than I can count.  I don't begrudge medication for those who need it, but I don't think it's the answer to every rough spot like the medical profession would have us believe.  Best of luck to you.

[Monkeyleg]

Winston, I've known many really hard-core alcoholics in my life. One always comes to mind: an advertising executive who had black-outs that lasted two or even three days. He'd walk into the office on Wednesday expecting to be fired, only to be congratulated for the terrific presentation he gave to a new client-pitch the day before. And he didn't remember any of it.

He also smoked heavily.

But the first thing he gave up was booze, and is now an AA counselor.

He gave up cigarettes when he had a heart attack in his late 50's.

First things first, though: cig's don't make you black out, or drive your car into a crowded intersection.

There are a lot of people out there who have addictive personalities: Keith Richards and me, for example. The trick is to keep control.

Get over the alcohol first. I have a niece who became a full-blown alcoholic in eighth grade! She dropped out, and is still living a miserable life nearly forty years later.

It's not easy. No heavy addiction is easy.

I don't want to start an argument over drugs, but I gave up marijuana, LSD, opium, peyote, meth, and all sorts of other drugs in a matter of weeks. All it took was one bad LSD experience.

Alcohol, though, is another matter. I suspect that's why it's still legal.

One thing you might try is to see an addictionologist. Valium is a substitute for alcohol. You may find a doctor who will prescribe that. And Valium--despite Ted Kennedy's ravings--is not addictive.

Don't get down on yourself. If you've moved off the booze, you've made an enormous leap. Give yourself some credit. You're actually stronger than the other people you know, because they probably couldn't do what you've done.

Have a cig, and promise yourself that you'll give up the cigs when the time is right.

Stay strong, Winston. Don't turn into a burn-out like my niece. It sure sounds like you have the will.

[Winston Smith]

Monkey, I'm not using will for alcohol, I'm using spirit...

Thanks for all your help, guys, it seems to have been a rougher spot in a rough patch.. but I definitely feel that this all may be a symptom of trying to be an adult 16 year old, as some of you have suggested.

Have not smoked.

Monkeyleg, I am unable to not get addicted to body-chemistry changing substances... thus valium is not the best idea, for me at least.

[brimic]

Most of smoking is the physical habit- lighting a cigarette, putting it in your mouth, and holding it in your fingers.  If you substitute something else in situations where you normally want to smoke such as driving or hanging out on your porch, it makes it easier. The key is a healthy substitution, as people tend to substitute by overeating and they end up putting on weight after quitting. I use sunflower seeds.  Tossing them in your mouth, cracking them in your teeth ans pitting the shell to get the reward of a tiny nut takes time to learn and practice, not unlike learning to smoke. I've been eating sunflower seeds almost daily since I quit smoking about 10 years ago.  They have some fat in them, but it won't make a difference if you stay active, and one good side effect of sunflower seeds at least from my nonscientific observations, is that they keep your teeth clean and saliva flowing which helps prevent tooth decay.

[duck hunt]

Just FWIW -- Valium is (these days) generally only used for the first few days of treatment, and then only if the patient is having physical withdrawal symptoms that require intervention (DTs).  I think that a couple of decades ago it was perhaps looked on as a suitable long-term treatment for alcoholism, but no longer.  And Valium is, in fact, addictive -- both psychologically and physically.  Not to mention you build up a tolerance like whoa.

[Guest]

Thanks for the kinds words folks.

My home AA group was hardcore. Used the OLD approach plan. We had folks come in from all over the country to get what we had.

We also had folks in a dead run for a easier softer way - like 30 day in MN.  *grin*

Now the old meeting place was too small, it had been moved to Whatever a Catholic Campus is called. We were not PC, we used bad language, even amongst the various Clergy, of many faiths and nuns.  We smoked in the meeting room and if you didn't like that - leave. Smoke gets in your eyes, move to another chair - or leave. You walk in and YOU may be the one to chair the meeting...and you may be doing so for awhile. We had folks change their minds, didn't want what we had and went back out to prove us wrong. We picked these same folks up from under busted bar stools, the emergency rooms, or in some flea bag hotel.

Too many times have I picked up a drunk, kept pints of booze in them as I sped to a treatment center, now closed. Tell a Trooper " yes I am giving them pints to keep the DT's away" - and Trooper forgot about me speeding- ran front door to the treatment area. Seen more than one with BAC of .35, had one at .40... and he was still carrying on , upright and opening doors for Us an the Drs.

Underneath the hardcore was serious concerns.  The nuns would often provide candy bars....to offset the amount of sugar one is used to getting from booze.  We always said to eat candy and drink sodas...and to smoke'em if ya got 'em.

We can deal with the smoking and other stuff later, You get drunk and die, wet brained or in a cell...the 3 choices of a active drunk - no guarantee.

First 30 days - attend 60 meeting minimum. Call your sponsoreveryday.  Do steps 1- 4 at least.

NO major life changes for 1 year, unless you and your sponsor ( and probably his) agree in the major change. that meant marriage, divorce, quitting smoking, getting engaged, new job, quitting old one, having kids...etc.

The new guy is not able to think  clearly . It takes 30 days ( 1 month) for each year you were active to get your thinking back straight.  The Drunk is so used to conning, lying, being deceitful, denying...can't be trusted these behaviors are not going to occur after the pink cloud  of new sobriety.

I've gone on interventions, had the fun stuff like a person drunk with a gun in hand, a knife in hand, maybe even both parties drunk and the weapon held on the other one.  Granted we worked with Dr.s, the LEOs, the Clergy. I have told a fella he had a choice, I would shoot him and he could die drunk right that moment, or he could put the gun down, and have one more chance , and if chose to die drunk after experienceing sobriety- that was his choice. He put the gun down. The LEO, Clergy was quite relieved that were there as well. LEO didn't charge him with the weapon dealie " that was your one free card from me", LEO was a Friend of Bill W.  He was making sure the wife, and child was safe...my choice to take the drunk...I had to for MY sobriety.

I'm still hardcore, I don't care if you don't like smoking, or bad language...I'm gonna do what I do and say what I say and more likely be smoking when I say and do. Like the Hardcore there for me when I came in- well I for sure didn't know what was best for  me. The new guys I dealt / deal with - didn't/ don't know either.

Now under all this hardcore - is a serious concern. You will not find anyone  that will go to bat for you with a judge, employer, family  - anything  better than we. If you are willing, honest, and doing the steps.

" I play for keeps - lest I not make back alive" .

I really sucks to have to bury someone that died sober.  It really sucks to bury the ones that were and ended up dying drunk.  I really sucks to find a guy in flea bag hotel, take a pulse, call the LEO and hear the confirmation the guy is dead and he never attempted sobriety.

It really really sucks to hear a guy that became sober at 16, stayed that way for 34  years, decided he could have a drink when he turned 50, died drunk 3 wks later.

One day at a time, one thing at a time.

 The Reality is, the cliche's on the wall are nice, the BIG Book is great. HP is wonderful - Sometimes all one can do is hold onto the chair and white knuckle that mother.

[grampster]

Winston, listen to sm.  Value every word.  I never met him but he comes through the ether like a guardian angel.
Good on ya, sm.  Maybe someday I'll get to shake your hand.

[Guest]

grampster-

Nope - it is I that wishes to shake your hand.  I am no big deal, all I gots - is what I have experienced.

See, I have seen the gates of hell, felt the heat, smelled the burning flesh, granted I had to take a second look and get a bit closer and hear the screams. That denial bit the foirst go around.

Many a time I have given someone a BigBook and a Fifth of whiskey " drink the whiskey, rad the book - stick to which ever one gives you the most relief".  Suggested it too many times to count.

The booze...heh, heh, got a buddy been sober I guess 30 yrs, owns a liquor store or three...I still get a discount at the liquor store.

Preacheman and Larry Ashcraft will tell ya, you wanna go to a place that serves booze, want me suggest who has good food with booze,or need a liquor store run - no problem.  I am centered enough to do this.  I didn't at first of my sobriety, I changed playmates, playgrounds and playthings. I didn't have a legitimate reason for being in some places.

After some sobriety, hey, I got a legitimate reason - quit spouting and parroting what heard- actions by living it is what matters. Might be some person with a few years and now know he can still go out to say Outback to eat, or not realize as being the designated driver to the liquor store for those without my disease wanna drink.

Down the road , well hell , not even down the road - for me from the get-go, one never knows whom is watching, they want to know if they can live life on life's terms if they stop drinking.

I know folks that in fact came into the program, because I did go into a liquor store to buy gifts, and steal coffee from the coffee pot 'cause I knew the folks. Maybe I was seen ordering wine for the table, out shooting pool...or buying pints in case I needed them to take a drunk to treatment.

Smoking, yeah I know all about it. I also know my sponsor quit, went thru some stuff and ended up drinking and damn near dying. He "had" more sobriety than me...now that is hard, having your sponsor get drunk after all these years...and he comes to you through his wife and kid...His doctor said the booze will kill him next time, smoking "might" down the road.

Sheesh...you was the idiot that come up with all the wine coolers? Didn't have crap like that in my day....no wondoer folks get screwed up - look at all the crap that carry  in package stores today...

Umbrellas are for when it rains - don't belong in a drink.  Damn Amatures. *wink*

Oh - the muzzle end of a Colt Python is really really big.  The quickest I've seen  Clergy to break out a crucifix , pray and cross himself is when I told that fellow " take another drink to steady yourself, 'cause if you miss - you just blew  your chance for sobriety" .

LEO confirmed to the clergy and the drunk - I was serious.

Fun times indeed...it takes what it takes, keep coming back.

I dunno - always got a kick out of hollering at the De-tox center as I left from dropping someone off " anybody wanna get high"  - tends to get responses. *grin*

[grampster]

Steve,
A man once told me that sometimes we do our best work when we don't even know it.  Your sound personal experiences with demon rum carries over into so many other areas of life.
Booze, sex, smokes, stealin', lying, cheatin', gambling...all of the vices are so interconected.  Each of us may not have all of them, but all of us have one or some of them.  I surely do value what you have to say about your experiences because I can relate to them in many ways.  Many of us are fortunate enough to never fall as deep into the pit as some of us do.  You, my friend, remind us that the pit is there and it is hungry for us.  
Illigitimi non carborundum est, friend.  (don't let the bastards get you down---slogan of the Old Bastards Society, of which I am a member, # 699842.)

[Lee]

I smoked for 25 years (started at 16) and drank to the point of alcoholism, but cut down dramatically after a few scary times.  It does get easier Winston.  One day at a time, and one battle at a time.  No one is perfect.  We all fail.  It's those who admit failure, and then move on, who make it.  You sound like one of them to me.

[tcdrennen]

Hey Winston -

+1 on sm's story. Except for age (how'd you manage to be younger than ME, sm? ) it's my story.

Started drinking at age 12, quit at 31 when the choice became a moment of clarity: (1) I could keep drinking, or keep brathing, not both; and (2) I'd been drinking to commit slow suicide, but it was taking too long and hurting too much.

The kicker is, as they used to say in the "old school" meetings (thanks AGAIN for the reminder, sm!) EVERYTHING you experienced drunk you will experience sober - from BOTH sides. All the harsh I'd mellowed via drink and drug for all those years was right there in my face; and I had to look into the face of the abyss and stare it down. The abyss DOES look back.

Discovered things about who I am and who I needed to be that I'd never dealt with before, and have dealt with most of the biggies since.

Smoking is on the list, but I Ain't Quite There Yet. I actually bought the patch starter kit a couple of weeks ago but haven't tried it yet.

Also, my pronounced perverse streak likes p'ing off the Tobacco Nazis. I wear pro gun shirts for the same reason.

So let the emotions happen - it'll be a while before you find your normal level of ebb and flow; you dulled them long enough to be surprised at the intensity!

That said, if you find yourself going for days on end with a feeling of doom or helplessness or just lethargy, see a doctor. It may be a physical imbalance, it may be something Paxil or the like can help. But at 16, you're still growing, and wild mood swings are kinda normal. I'm wary of MD's who START with meds for young people; at MY age I've learned I need some help, but my doctor is VERY aware of my recovery and dislike of chemical assists.

But I've been clean & sober since 13 Oct 1983, one day at a time.

It works!

Tara