Weird random primer strikes.

[freakazoid]

On my .380 Mauser HSC I sometimes get these deep primer strikes.
What they normally look like,


What they sometimes, but not very often, look like,

Couldn't get a good lighting on the picture but it doesn't go all the way through, but it is deeper than normal and it looks like the primer has been flattened. Also, you can't see it because it is turned but on the rim there is a sliver of a section that looks like it has been shaved off, that's on the same side as where the primer looks flattened up.

 

[280plus]

If you're reloading your own you may be making them too hot. That being said I had a LOT of trouble with some winchester .22 LR recently and I hear their QC hasn't been the best lately. You might try another manufacturer and see if it solves the problem.

[freakazoid]

Haven't started learning to reload yet so it's not that. If I remember correctly I have only seen it with the Winchester rounds.

[Brad Johnson]

Flattened and extruded primers.  Prima fascie evidence of overpressure.  Bad juju, and you seem to have a whole box of it.

Check the mfg web site and make sure your lot of shells wasn't subject to a recall.  At the very least give them a call, or better yet an email with oics, to let them know.

Brad

[Hutch]

Haven't started learning to reload yet so it's not that. If I remember correctly I have only seen it with the Winchester rounds.

Well, who did reload these?  The headstamps appear to be mixed.

[freakazoid]

Actually looking back through my saved brass I think it was only that one .380 Winchester case that had the deep puncture. What I was remembering was a box of Hornady .303 that a bunch had deep primer punctures, they both have yellow primers which is why I thought it was the .380.

Well, who did reload these?  The headstamps appear to be mixed.

It's a mix of two boxes I shot. I shot a box of Winchester and a box of UMC.

[Fly320s]

Winchester is known for their soft primers.  Even if that is true, something is still wrong with those.

[lee n. field]

Haven't started learning to reload yet so it's not that. If I remember correctly I have only seen it with the Winchester rounds.

But are they reloads, as in someone else, or commercial reloads?   (I'm guessing not, as all those I can make out have the same headstamp.)

The normal ones look high pressure too, just not flattened out like the one.

At the very least give them a call, or better yet an email with oics, to let them know.

Send these pictures to them when you call.  They'll also be interested in lot number information, which would be on the box somewhere.

[freakazoid]

But are they reloads, as in someone else, or commercial reloads?   (I'm guessing not, as all those I can make out have the same headstamp.)

The normal ones look high pressure too, just not flattened out like the one.

Send these pictures to them when you call.  They'll also be interested in lot number information, which would be on the box somewhere.

Store bought. The ones with yellow primers are Winchester white box and silver primers are Remington UMC. I just have them mixed together in the picture.

[brimic]

Try a  diffdrent lot of primers. I once had a pack of primers that would keep puncturing primets on some relatively moddrate .308 loads.  I switched lots and changed the firing pin(it was burned and had sharp edges), problem went away.

Definately check your firing pin, make sure its smooth with no burs.  You don't want to puncture anymore primiers for obvioys reasons, but also because you firing pin and later, the firing pin hole will be flame cut, which makes the problem worse and worse.

[French G.]

The "normal" ones look like there may be some flow into the firing pin hole of the breech face. Possible to get the chamber spec checked on your gun, perhaps something is undersized in there causing excessive pressure?

[never_retreat]

Looks like high pressure loads because of the flattening. Check the boar for leading if it is factory ammo.

[freakazoid]

Here is the firing pin for the HSC,

Doesn't seem to be damaged.

The firing pin on the Enfield on the other hand does look damaged,

 

I've never taken the HSC apart this far so at least it got a really good cleaning out of this, :D

Looks like high pressure loads because of the flattening. Check the boar for leading if it is factory ammo.

Leading against the grooves in the barrel?

[Brad Johnson]

Check the boar for leading

I have leaded many boars. Sows too.

Brad

[RoadKingLarry]

Ditto on the high pressure signs. If I had reloads doing that I would end up pulling the whole batch.

Something ain't right. Out of spec chamber, excessive fouling in the chamber throat area. Needs to be checked out.

[freakazoid]

How could the chamber cause excessive pressure?
Anything specific I should look for?

[French G.]

Anything specific I should look for?

Yep, a competent gunsmith.

[280plus]

Someone recently told me that winchester had a recall for using incorrect powder in some rounds. Can't remember the specifics unfortunately.

[dogmush]

Is all the brass sooty up the sides like that?

[lee n. field]

Do other brands of factory loaded .380, after being fired, have primers that look like either of the two pictures you posted?

[freakazoid]

Is all the brass sooty up the sides like that?

Most are clean but some do have a little bit of sootiness running down about a quarter of the side.
Also the one with the deep primer strike actually does go all the way through. I can hold it up to the light and see through part of it.

Do other brands of factory loaded .380, after being fired, have primers that look like either of the two pictures you posted?

I've only put Winchester and UMC through it.

Looking around online I found this where someone posted up pictures of a .380 doing the same thing as the first picture, http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460416 The OP also mentions light primer strikes/failure to fires bit I haven't had that issue. He was also using the same two companies of ammo I am using.
Interesting. Doing a little reading on primer "blanking" and it sounds like one possibility is a week spring.
The second picture one seems to be the only one that did that. Don't know 100% as I hadn't collected all the .380 brass after shooting at the range.

[lee n. field]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460416

From that thread

It can result in brass shavings ending up in the firing pin tunnel.

This can slow the firing pin enough to cause misfires.

A known issue with the PF9, that that thread was about. 

Which gets a little far afield from the original problem here, but suggests it might be good to go over it, cleaning all the nooks and crannies, and replacing some springs.  The Mauser's hammer fired?

[freakazoid]

Which gets a little far afield from the original problem here, but suggests it might be good to go over it, cleaning all the nooks and crannies, and replacing some springs.  The Mauser's hammer fired?

Hammer fired yes. After I pulled the firing pin out I ended up cleaning everything since I've never took it that far apart. Was dirty.
Need to see if cleaning it did the trick.
I wonder if the funny looking end has anything to do with it. The firing pin channel is as wide as the bulb at the end which means that the part that actually strikes the primer is thinner than the channel. Maybe the primer is just fitting around it until it reaches the bulb?

[brimic]

As kthers mentioned, get headspace checked. Those dont look like high pressure primers to me, more like excessive headspace... upun firing, the primer will back out, flow around the firing pin, then be squished flat again.

[lee n. field]

Maybe the primer is just fitting around it until it reaches the bulb?

shouldn't be flowing that much, though.