First Honest University Commercial

[makattak]

We both looked at it differently, not saying either of us is wrong. But where is the HS graduate going to get $50k in years 1-4 to invest for 40 years?

The same place the HS graduate who is attending college will get it...

Or do you want me to start in on the math of taking on debt to finance college?

[Balog]

We both looked at it differently, not saying either of us is wrong. But where is the HS graduate going to get $50k in years 1-4 to invest for 40 years?

I made mid 40's as a non-union apprentice. Unions around here start at mid 60's for an apprentice, depending on union. Plenty of 2 year degrees that result in 50-90k/year to start.

If you weed out the people who never pursued higher education because they're lazy burnouts and compared motivated folks who work jobs w/ and w/out degrees there isn't nearly as much difference. The fact that Cleetus and Shantiqua never went to college doesn't change the fact that they'd be living on food stamps or job hopping from minimum wage jobs either way.

[charby]

The same place the HS graduate who is attending college will get it...

Or do you want me to start in on the math of taking on debt to finance college?

Show me a job that pays $35k per year in an areas where that will pay for a living standard of living for a person (rent, food, clothing, etc) the day after they graduate from HS. 

[charby]

I made mid 40's as a non-union apprentice. Unions around here start at mid 60's for an apprentice, depending on union. Plenty of 2 year degrees that result in 50-90k/year to start.

If you weed out the people who never pursued higher education because they're lazy burnouts and compared motivated folks who work jobs w/ and w/out degrees there isn't nearly as much difference. The fact that Cleetus and Shantiqua never went to college doesn't change the fact that they'd be living on food stamps or job hopping from minimum wage jobs either way.

I'm not weeding anyone out, I think some folks are just harsh critics of higher education. I also said college isn't for everyone and the thought of working in trades is evil mentality needs to end.

Neither one of my parents went to a university. Dad entered an electrical apprenticeship program when he was 21 after getting laid off as a locomotive engineer and my mom did a hospital program for radiology. Both were able to retire quite well at 60.

I didn't go to college right away either, 1 week after I graduated I ended working as a welder making $6 an hour in 1992, I quit that job 18 months later making top wage of $8 an hour to go to college. I realized that if I wanted to make more than $8 an hour at the time, I needed to get some education. $8 was pretty much the top wage for any job at the time in 1992, there were massive layoffs 10 years earlier (farm crisis) and surplus of labor in the Midwest.

[Balog]

I'm not weeding anyone out, I think some folks are just harsh critics of higher education. I also said college isn't for everyone and the thought of working in trades is evil mentality needs to end.

Neither one of my parents went to a university. Dad entered an electrical apprenticeship program when he was 21 after getting laid off as a locomotive engineer and my mom did a hospital program for radiology. Both were able to retire quite well at 60.

I didn't go to college right away either, 1 week after I graduated I ended working as a welder making $6 an hour in 1992, I quit that job 18 months later making top wage of $8 an hour to go to college. I realized that if I wanted to make more than $8 an hour at the time, I needed to get some education. $8 was pretty much the top wage for any job at the time in 1992, there were massive layoffs 10 years earlier (farm crisis) and surplus of labor in the Midwest.

Higher education deserves to be criticized harshly, it is enslaving entire generations with unreasonable debt for something of no value. People are delaying getting married and having kids because of the crushing debt society has told them they must have. We have > $1,000,000,000, 000 in unsecured debt for student loans. College has turned into a force of evil and enslavement in this country, with plenty of BS lying statistics to try to trick gullible teens into believing they need it.

[charby]

I call bull. 

Just about any parent with children who may be college material is giving higher ed the hairy eyeball.  For instance, I did pretty well with my degrees and parleyed them into an UMC existence.  (For how long, who knows?)  Higher ed deserves the hairy eyeball and I hope it gets the hairy canary until it screams for mercy.

To give you an idea how much higher ed cost has inflated, my dad worked summers in the 1960s driving a dump truck and then hopping out and slinging a shovel.  In Iowa.  He was a member of two unions.  He worked 14 hour days in the summers and made enough to pay all his tuition at St Ambrose, a private college.  He also had plenty of spending money during the school year.

I tried to emulate that 30 years later, but no dice.  Working class wages have stagnated or fallen due to immigration and higher ed costs have risen at some multiple of inflation.  I worked and saved every summer since I was 15, working more dangerous jobs than my dad, but it still was not going to happen.  I was blessed in that my folks were willing and able to help send me to one of the cheapest public universities in the land, where I continued to bust my hump, in & out of school.

Given our kiddos' ages, tuition, fees, books, R&B will be closer to $40k/year each.  (Ten years, if higher ed inflation stays at the same rate.)  Not sure many folks who can afford such a bill.  And we wonder why middle class folks don;t have more kiddos.

It was my opinion of what I see. I totally agree on the stagnation of wages.

I agree higher education used to be cheaper in proportion to average income, but when the states and feds started reducing funding to the public institutions in the early 2000s the public schools had to respond with higher tuition and fees to cover that reduction.

[charby]

Higher education deserves to be criticized harshly, it is enslaving entire generations with unreasonable debt for something of no value. People are delaying getting married and having kids because of the crushing debt society has told them they must have. We have > $1,000,000,000, 000 in unsecured debt for student loans. College has turned into a force of evil and enslavement in this country, with plenty of BS lying statistics to try to trick gullible teens into believing they need it.

Well the feds are going after ITT for their debt dealio.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/itt-educational-services-inc-being-003800519.html

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The german system works too well and makes way too much sense. It would be fought here by the unions and the educational establishment.  Sad that

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[charby]

The german system works too well and makes way too much sense. It would be fought here by the unions and the educational establishment.  Sad that

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I think it would be embraced by the trade unions and hated by the education establishment.

Embraced because it would boost their membership numbers.

[KD5NRH]

This is why I'm stalled; the community college is about 1/3 the cost of the local university, and I've run out of classes that are of any use to me at the CC.

Well, unless I decide to major in nursing or cosmetology.  Neither of which I have the bedside/chairside manner for.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I think it would be embraced by the trade unions and hated by the education establishment.

Embraced because it would boost their membership numbers.

the trades?  maybe  only if the system preserved their often nepotistic monopoly. if the students were not REQUIRED to join a union, like in a right to work state, this could kick the chair they are standing on out from under them.

[Azrael256]

the trades?  maybe  only if the system preserved their often nepotistic monopoly. if the students were not REQUIRED to join a union, like in a right to work state, this could kick the chair they are standing on out from under them.

Is that why they're unpopular?  My plumber makes some serious bucks with a HS diploma and a license.  I can't figure out why anyone who isn't really cut out for college isn't all over that kind of thing.  Idiots with useless degrees could salvage their useless futures with a torch or a pair of pliers.

Office work might be cleaner, but the dude is making near 100k soldering fittings.

[roo_ster]

It was my opinion of what I see. I totally agree on the stagnation of wages.

I agree higher education used to be cheaper in proportion to average income, but when the states and feds started reducing funding to the public institutions in the early 2000s the public schools had to respond with higher tuition and fees to cover that reduction.

Higher eds rate of inflation has been a multiple of inflation since long before 2000.