Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on April 12, 2015, 05:35:19 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/us/politics/hillary-clinton-2016-presidential-campaign.html?_r=0
Wow, I did not see that one coming. :O
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb398%2FFLHRI-OK%2Fhillary%25202016.jpg&hash=67ed414e4f52d522d963e998a71116e57bad2936) (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/FLHRI-OK/media/hillary%202016.jpg.html)
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I was willing to ignore her and allow her to be hoist on her own petard. But noooo ....
It's my turn.
It's about time America had a woman president.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.cpcache.com%2Fproduct%2F811006992%2Frun_hillary_run_bumper_bumper_sticker.jpg%3Fheight%3D225%26amp%3Bwidth%3D225&hash=398b02d0b4d4263269a09f74809cba1c3a88115d)
It goes on the front bumper as soon as express delivery can get it to me.
stay safe.
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What was the purpose of announcing that you are going to announce you are running?
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What was the purpose of announcing that you are going to announce you are running?
This has been an alert to alert you to standby for a standby alert for an alert to standby.
Three weeks in the .mil and, frighteningly, that makes perfect sense.
stay safe.
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http://www.brobible.com/life/article/hillary-clinton-typo/
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maniacworld.com%2Fwanting-to-punch-hillary.jpg&hash=d502904baf8efcd600f4410f17c9952ed638031e)
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I hope Jim Webb announces in the near future.
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Read the headline earlier. "Senior Clinton aide confirms Hillary 2016 via email".
:lol:
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Street art hits Brooklyn . . .
Hillary Street Art (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/brooklyn-hit-anti-hillary-street-art_917019.html)
Also from the Daily Mail, a U.K. paper:
Clinton's press office left an embarrassing typo in its press announcement, saying that she had 'fought children and families all her career'
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And she is once again trying to remake her image, this time hoping to appear as a "woman of the people." Yep, nothing conveys an understanding of the common man like demanding private, chartered air travel to get you to a venue that you're charging $250,000 just to flap your gums for half an hour.
I find it inexplicable and incomprehensible that anyone would pay anything to hear this woman speak -- let alone caving in to the blackmail for all the perks on top of the outrageous speaker's fees.
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Street art hits Brooklyn . . .
Hillary Street Art (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/brooklyn-hit-anti-hillary-street-art_917019.html)
Also from the Daily Mail, a U.K. paper:
Love the cat eye pupils.
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This has been an alert to alert you to standby for a standby alert for an alert to standby.
Three weeks in the .mil and, frighteningly, that makes perfect sense.
stay safe.
3 weeks my ass, try three minutes.
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Quote from: Daily Mail
Clinton's press office left an embarrassing typo in its press announcement, saying that she had 'fought children and families all her career'
Just what makes the Daily Mail think it was a typo?
stay safe.
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Fox News' morning team are having a laugh-fest over the lack of photos of Hilary's bus since it hit the road. Apparently it is not showing up on social media, where apparently Hilary would prefer to conduct her entire campaign.
Would someone who is on the Book of Face check to see if the bus is showing up or if it is parked under a bridge.
stay safe.
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Fox News' morning team are having a laugh-fest over the lack of photos of Hilary's bus since it hit the road. Apparently it is not showing up on social media, where apparently Hilary would prefer to conduct her entire campaign.
Would someone who is on the Book of Face check to see if the bus is showing up or if it is parked under a bridge.
stay safe.
Images are easy to find.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoguide.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F%2F2012%2F09%2Fmystery-machine-01.jpg&hash=bb6685b19766620f1e06d752cef79002788b71d2)
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What was the purpose of announcing that you are going to announce you are running?
It is to make sure their pets in the media can generate all the coverage they expect and show plenty of fake interest.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoguide.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F%2F2012%2F09%2Fmystery-machine-01.jpg&hash=bb6685b19766620f1e06d752cef79002788b71d2)
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SNL mocks her impending announcement, with a special cameo:https://www.yahoo.com/politics/hillary-clintons-expected-announcement-skewered-116210593206.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/hillary-clintons-expected-announcement-skewered-116210593206.html)
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I would look for a panel van with the words "FREE CANDY" spray painted across it.
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I've been saying for months (years?) that Hillary won't be the D's choice in 2016.
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Someone on the internet has pointed out that the campaign web site for She Who Must Be Elected has nothing to say about Her stance on the issues. No "On the Issues" page, nothing.
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Someone on the internet has pointed out that the campaign web site for She Who Must Be Elected has nothing to say about Her stance on the issues. No "On the Issues" page, nothing.
Yep
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/
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Someone on the internet has pointed out that the campaign web site for She Who Must Be Elected has nothing to say about Her stance on the issues. No "On the Issues" page, nothing.
how can you say that? I found the information easily enough"
Donate
$5
$15
$25
$100
SUBMIT
stay safe.
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Yep
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/
She looks predatory in the banner pic. The focused stare, the bared teeth.
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Hints on her economic policy
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-most-clues-hillary-clintons-173627521.html
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She looks predatory in the banner pic. The focused stare, the bared teeth.
Kind of like this?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia3.popsugar-assets.com%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F10%2F43%2F4%2F192%2F1922153%2Fb67c007cab75fca1_How-to-Get-HAlloween-Witch-Face-Paint%2Fi%2FHow-Create-Scary-Witch-Halloween-Face-Paint-Look.jpg&hash=9e88a65e5e5607aea05644bf95fbcb91e4870a69)
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how can you say that? I found the information easily enough"
stay safe.
That donation stuff is just for people outside the US.
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That donation stuff is just for people outside the US.
Clintons have always depended on the kindness of the Chinese strangers.
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Apparently Twitter does not approve of her campaign logo.
https://twitter.com/massfubar/status/587334025985011713/photo/1
stay safe.
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http://www.brobible.com/life/article/hillary-clinton-typo/
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maniacworld.com%2Fwanting-to-punch-hillary.jpg&hash=d502904baf8efcd600f4410f17c9952ed638031e)
Damn those crazy eyes and chilling smile.. that creature scares me.
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Someone on the internet has pointed out that the campaign web site for She Who Must Be Elected has nothing to say about Her stance on the issues. No "On the Issues" page, nothing.
You're looking at the wrong menu. You have to look at the separate hand-out, the one with the early bird specials, under "Positions du jour."
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We need a gom jabbar, to test for true humanity.
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Her H with the arrow symbol would look good on a Preparation H box. The arrow would point at what benefits you get from the cream. I wish I knew how to put that up here. There is one warped person here who can do it. I hope he does.
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My favorite so far
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11108209_10153344402771614_6760616954815080072_n.jpg?oh=73916fc967f83d92cc23e8929960375c&oe=55AE4574&__gda__=1440949681_dc289b0835f9ed95fe199c5c3b0b5882)
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HO...
I'm not touching that :angel:
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We need a gom jabbar, to test for true humanity.
Yeah, and the people who administered that test had no ulterior motives whatsoever. They would just want what was best for the country. =D
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1520672_10206822758594009_5214383669710139327_n.jpg?oh=ae3dc68be16b930a953722d9e131e7c1&oe=55A51D2F&__gda__=1441009733_8794bce79765f138d7ec8843eafe25f3)
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When ever I see a picture of that person, I always think "a celebrity President could have done better"... But then I remember that she was not the only female on staff... Quantity makes up for quality? Bliss in variety? It was a slow day at the office? The front line team called in sick due to sore throats, had to go with the back-up? Maybe it was never about perfect looks, but skill?
Anywho, it makes me wonder, and this is serious, if Hillary sits at that desk, could a sudden fit of anger develop, bringing about WW3?
ETA: You know that you have a seriously screwed up political body, I mean inbred-royalty-no longer a republic type deal, when you have to contemplate such scenarios.
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When ever I see a picture of that person, I always think "a celebrity President could have done better"... But then I remember that she was not the only female on staff... Quantity makes up for quality? Bliss in variety? It was a slow day at the office? The front line team called in sick due to sore throats, had to go with the back-up? Maybe it was never about perfect looks, but skill?
Anywho, it makes me wonder, and this is serious, if Hillary sits at that desk, could a sudden fit of anger develop, bringing about WW3?
ETA: You know that you have a seriously screwed up political body, I mean inbred-royalty-no longer a republic type deal, when you have to contemplate such scenarios.
You know you have a political system that is terminally ill when you get someone who can be elected to the U.S. Senate, then become Secretary of State, and then be taken at least semi-seriously as a candidate for President -- all because of who she's married to.
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I find it interesting that so many candidates for Presidency in the States
are related: John and Robert Kennedy, Bush sr., Bush jr. and now Jeb, Billary.
Is this an attempt to reinstall aristocracy or by pure accident?
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Don't forget about John Adams and John Quincy Adams.
Also there is some person that related all presidents (except Martin VanBuren) back to King John "Lackland" Plantagenet, the King of England in the 13th century. Not sure how true it is, but I remember this shortly after Obama was inaugurated.
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Okay I stole this one from AJ Dual:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/t31.0-8/11130477_10204058033839841_7299779337962154080_o.jpg)
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You know you have a political system that is terminally ill when you get someone who can be elected to the U.S. Senate, then become Secretary of State, and then be taken at least semi-seriously as a candidate for President -- all because of who she's married to.
While being held up by some as a feminist leader and champion of women. :facepalm:
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Hillary should have just used her signature of her first name as her campaign logo.
She does have nice handwriting and it would show a softer side to her.
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Her bus has a photo of her using her Blackberry on the back. I wonder if they had already committed to the graphics before the email scandal? Anyway, I guess it doesn't matter to supporters, the thing is just a billboard that follows her around.
(https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/450581068.jpg?w=635&h=423)
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(https://www.americarisingpac.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ClintonInc25B.jpg)
comes out to about $38 per vote
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I find it interesting that so many candidates for Presidency in the States
are related: John and Robert Kennedy, Bush sr., Bush jr. and now Jeb, Billary.
Is this an attempt to reinstall aristocracy or by pure accident?
Eh, for the Bush's and Kennedy's I think it's a matter of growing up in the family business. The kids are immersed in it, they absorb the lessons and skills and connections and attitudes of a politician. Politics is what they know, and when they come of age they do what comes naturally.
The Clinton's are a little different, I think. I think they're in it for the wealth and trappings afforded by high office. When Bill was in the white house they pimped his presidency for all it was worth. They started Hillary's political career the moment Bill's ended, and they've been pimping her prospects for all they're worth worth, too.
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Yessiree, ol' Hillary is just a woman of the people.
If we need more proof -- the students at the community college where she was supposed to be meeting "ordinary people" were locked in their classrooms while she and her entourage strolled the corridors.
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/296880-hillary-visits-college-see-everyday-iowans-students-locked-classrooms/
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(https://polination.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/hillary-cant-handle-2-email-accts.jpg)
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https://polination.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/hillary-cant-handle-2-email-accts.jpg (https://polination.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/hillary-cant-handle-2-email-accts.jpg)
So stolen for Facebook.
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Yessiree, ol' Hillary is just a woman of the people.
If we need more proof -- the students at the community college where she was supposed to be meeting "ordinary people" were locked in their classrooms while she and her entourage strolled the corridors.
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/296880-hillary-visits-college-see-everyday-iowans-students-locked-classrooms/
I'm really curious as to how that's legal. It may very well (sadly) be, but I'd be interested on the justification language. It's one thing for the Secret Service to cordon off and/or restrict areas and keep people from entering them, but to my mind, it's completely something else to detain people in locked rooms.
I guess the question also is, who did it? SS, local PD, College administrative idiots?
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http://freebeacon.com/politics/ladies-and-gentlemen-the-media-covering-hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign/
But the reporters are apparently chasing her around quite aggressively.
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http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2015/04/15/clinton-unnecessary-regulations-thwart-business-growth/25837195/
Hillary Clinton on Wednesday that problems they face include taxes that are too restrictive, an immigration system that doesn't allow them to hire workers they need, and health insurance expenses that continue to increase too much.
So she is for H1B visas for cheaper labor. I thought democrats were for higher wages and unionized workers.
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http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2015/04/15/clinton-unnecessary-regulations-thwart-business-growth/25837195/
So she is for H1B visas for cheaper labor. I thought democrats were for higher wages and unionized workers.
Actually the H1Bs are usually not for the cheap labor:
H-1B visa. The US H1B visa is a non-immigrant visa that allows US companies to employ foreign workers in specialty occupations that require theoretical or technical expertise in specialized fields such as in architecture, engineering, mathematics, science, and medicine.
I worked with a few Canadians scientists that were in the US on the H-1Bs, and they were getting compensated equally to US workers.
I hate to agree with Clinton, but we should be making the H-1B easier to get. This is all educated and skilled labor. We're already getting plenty of manual labor coming in, both legally and illegally.
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Actually the H1Bs are usually not for the cheap labor:
I worked with a few Canadians scientists that were in the US on the H-1Bs, and they were getting compensated equally to US workers.
I hate to agree with Clinton, but we should be making the H-1B easier to get. This is all educated and skilled labor. We're already getting plenty of manual labor coming in, both legally and illegally.
I see your point, I also imagine we probably got plenty of homegrown talent just need to pay enough to convince people to move or move the jobs to them.
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http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2015/04/15/clinton-unnecessary-regulations-thwart-business-growth/25837195/
So she is for H1B visas for cheaper labor. I thought democrats were for higher wages and unionized workers.
Not anymore. The Democrats dumped the working class a few election cycles ago in favor of cultural marxism uber alles. And the H1Bs compete against white and asian Americans, who are not part of the Democrats Coalition of the Fringes.
Actually the H1Bs are usually not for the cheap labor:
I worked with a few Canadians scientists that were in the US on the H-1Bs, and they were getting compensated equally to US workers.
I hate to agree with Clinton, but we should be making the H-1B easier to get. This is all educated and skilled labor. We're already getting plenty of manual labor coming in, both legally and illegally.
Most H1Bs are here to undercut American STEM workers. There are workshops those who want to pay less for STEM workers (and get foreign indentured servants instead) attend that show them how to game the system. They are pretty blatant about it. Given that less than half of STEM grads go into STEM work, we have puh-lenty of native born talent.
It is welfare for tech billionaires, which is why folk like Zuckerberg are pushing for more H1Bs. Facebook is worth many billions of dollars and yet currently employs fewer than 9,000 Americans. And Zuckerberg wants to pay them even less.
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Yeah, based on all the comments I see here and elsewhere, the purpose is to keep the labor rate from increasing. More pay would attract more US workers to either come back or enter the market. Anytime someone talks about no US workers, that is almost always left out. We can't find enough US workers (for that pay scale) so we need to bring in more foreign workers.
I am sure there are a some exceptions, but I think that applies to most.
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I'm going to leave this here:
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/300066-hillary-clintons-newest-endorsement-comes-energetic-group-bunnies/
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I hate to agree with Clinton, but we should be making the H-1B easier to get. This is all educated and skilled labor. We're already getting plenty of manual labor coming in, both legally and illegally.
What profession or professions are there in this country for which we have a shortage of qualified people already here, among our own citizens? Look at the statistics for kids graduating in the so-called "learned professions" and you'll see that an unacceptably high percentage can't find jobs in their specialty. Why should we import yet more people in those professions to help ensure that our own graduates will never find work in their chosen field?
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What profession or professions are there in this country for which we have a shortage of qualified people already here, among our own citizens? Look at the statistics for kids graduating in the so-called "learned professions" and you'll see that an unacceptably high percentage can't find jobs in their specialty. Why should we import yet more people in those professions to help ensure that our own graduates will never find work in their chosen field?
Nursing, IT, and welding are a few to start with. You can Google more.
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Nursing, IT, and welding are a few to start with. You can Google more.
How much of the IT one is real shortages vs employers firing their US employees, claiming a shortage, and hiring H1B replacements?
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/southern-california-edison-it-workers-beyond-furious-over-h-1b-replacements.html
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20150222-column.html#page=1
http://personalliberty.com/angry-california-stem-workers-train-h-1b-replacements-ahead-layoffs/
Granted the above are about the same company, but I wonder if it might be a bit more endemic than that. I haven't been on the IT side of things in some time though (depending on values of IT, I'm a software developer), so maybe there is a shortage in parts of the country. I do know there's a shortage of experienced .NET developers in Utah, but that's about the extent of my direct knowledge on the subject (we ended up hiring an H1-B in Indiana (originally from India), spent 6 months looking locally).
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A question (I don't know the answer) would be, how many of those IT employees are level 1 helpdesk sorts vs those with specialized skills? To my way of thinking, a lot of that low level stuff going to India is similar to farm labor jobs going to Mexican immigrants. There are plenty of US citizens who could pick oranges, but won't. If pay is the argument, then we have to be prepared to pay more for food, computers, software, etc. It's the $15 argument, except for higher skilled workers.
For that matter, if one is against hiring foreign workers at lower pay, then we probably shouldn't be shopping at Walmart or other big box stores where 90% of the goods are manufactured by foreign workers.
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Wasn't there a thread not to long back about Google, Microsoft and bunch of Silicon Valley IT companies colluding to keep to IT pay low?
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Nursing, IT, and welding are a few to start with. You can Google more.
No lack of American citizen personnel for nursing. Recent grads go without work while they are imported from Nigera, India, & such. Get one of them in a position of authority and you end up with "all-Indian" floors as they discriminate in favor of similar imports. Same with the Nigerians, but they usuall y come with the increased risk of sexual assault from the male Nigerian nurses.
Plenty of comp sci grads going without work, too.
A question (I don't know the answer) would be, how many of those IT employees are level 1 helpdesk sorts vs those with specialized skills? To my way of thinking, a lot of that low level stuff going to India is similar to farm labor jobs going to Mexican immigrants. There are plenty of US citizens who could pick oranges, but won't. If pay is the argument, then we have to be prepared to pay more for food, computers, software, etc. It's the $15 argument, except for higher skilled workers.
For that matter, if one is against hiring foreign workers at lower pay, then we probably shouldn't be shopping at Walmart or other big box stores where 90% of the goods are manufactured by foreign workers.
The farm labor component of fruits & vegetables is a tiny proportion of the price paid by the consumer. Double the cost of farm labor and a head of lettuce goes up a whopping $0.05 or so to the consumer. There is a level of pay where I would quit my current job and do any of these jobs.
Have not seen studies for engineering, software, & IT, but the non-labor cost per hour of my time charged a customer dwarfs my labor (salary, benefits, etc.). IOW, overhead and compliance and all that jazz is greater than the cost of labor.
Do I hear a call for tariffs? Sounds good to me. NAFTA and WTO have been nothing but a curse.
Wasn't there a thread not to long back about Google, Microsoft and bunch of Silicon Valley IT companies colluding to keep to IT pay low?
Indeed. They were hammered in court for collusion and anti-competitive practices. And retaliated against companies that did not play ball.
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What types of welders are running short? Most of the specialty welding I can think of pays pretty well, but usually comes with long hours and travel. My uncle does pipeline welding and they often work 7/12's with one or two weekends off a month if that. I don't know what basic construction/pipe welders makes. It hasn't always been that good in the past and quality of work varies. Then you have a company like Dow Chemical who starts building a new plant and sucks up all the qualified welders for miles around.
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I'm going to leave this here:
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/300066-hillary-clintons-newest-endorsement-comes-energetic-group-bunnies/
Black one on the end looks like a dude.
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No lack of American citizen personnel for nursing. Recent grads go without work while they are imported from Nigera, India, & such. Get one of them in a position of authority and you end up with "all-Indian" floors as they discriminate in favor of similar imports. Same with the Nigerians, but they usuall y come with the increased risk of sexual assault from the male Nigerian nurses.
Plenty of comp sci grads going without work, too.
The farm labor component of fruits & vegetables is a tiny proportion of the price paid by the consumer. Double the cost of farm labor and a head of lettuce goes up a whopping $0.05 or so to the consumer. There is a level of pay where I would quit my current job and do any of these jobs.
Have not seen studies for engineering, software, & IT, but the non-labor cost per hour of my time charged a customer dwarfs my labor (salary, benefits, etc.). IOW, overhead and compliance and all that jazz is greater than the cost of labor.
Do I hear a call for tariffs? Sounds good to me. NAFTA and WTO have been nothing but a curse.
Indeed. They were hammered in court for collusion and anti-competitive practices. And retaliated against companies that did not play ball.
Maybe it's different in TX, but in CA, nursing jobs go begging. I have a couple of relatives in the field getting tons of overtime they'd rather not have.
Anyway, I don't want to start a whole big thing, but I guess I'm a little confused that on a forum where most of the members are all capitalist and Ayn Rand, that we're mad at private businesses hiring whoever the hell they want, and private citizens, whether born here or here legally, accepting whatever wage they want.
There are several threads here about the stupidity of college degrees as prerequisites for so many jobs, especially in IT. So who cares if the person with a comp sci degree from a crappy state college can't get a job, but the self-taught kid from Kansas (or Poland) with hands-on mad skillz can? Or that they may decide that they're fine with $25/hr, while a degreed individual with no experience thinks they're worth $50/hr, and dammit, it's the fault of big business that they can't find a job in their field?
I also don't see much difference between this and 'Right to Work" states. I think most here are in favor of them. Isn't a primary design of that system to allow businesses to hire who they want, and if a person is happy working at a non-union $25/hr job, vs a union $50/hr job, that they have a right to work at that lower wage if both they and their employer are happy with the deal?
I simply see individuals here legally via visa as no different than anyone else who may take a job at whatever wage. If the market approves, then maybe that's the correct wage. If the market, and consumers, see crappy service at that wage, or workers stop accepting it, or demand for the job goes up so much relative to supply, then the wage increases.
Again, as I mentioned above, I only have my one data point, but what I saw was individuals not only getting equally compensated, but individuals who worked hard and were eager to work because they went to a lot of trouble and were driven to get those visas. Certainly they worked harder with a better attitude than many of my US born coworkers, who had a "This is what I'm owed" mentality (though I also had very hard working and conscientious coworkers).
I simply see this as market forces at work.
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Just finished watching the Sunday talk shows (DVR, not time travel).
What the heck is going on? The press does not like Hillary, the press says she is unapproachable and autocratic and out of touch with her base, let alone without a clue about the rest of the country.
And yet she will beat any other contender that surfaces.
My cognitive has a huge dissonance.
stay safe.
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Ben, it's not so much the hiring of OTA folks that gets everyone's goat here, it's corporate America's lying about the need to hire OTAs on H1B visas.
If there were a true shortage of IT types in this country, then by all means bring in folks from other countries. But there is no shortage. Scams and fraud should piss everyone off.
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To VA's point:
Dems (and their ilk) will hold their nose and vote for Hillary given no other (liberal/Leftie) choices. Do recall the 2008 primaries, where Hillary was expecting to be anointed President, when suddenly Obama jumped in the race and Dems (and their ilk) flocked to him and his campaign, sucking the oxygen out of her campaign. The only reason she stayed even somewhat competitive can be attributed to Operation Chaos. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos)
Should Warren jump in or (Hahahahaha) Biden, then you'll see a split in the Dems. But for right now, she's the only one in the race. (And word is that she's been hard at work to keep everyone else out...)
To Ben's Point:
The US Chamber of Commerce is heavy in advocating for more immigrants. Why? Cheap Labor. That's why they favor amnesty for illegals and bringing in more H1B's. The problem is not that there is "shortage" of IT/Engineer and other STEM types in the US. The problem is that the companies don't want to pay the "prevailing" wage. They want cheap. As has been the experience with many other folks here, the H1B's are good at following scripts and having the book answer(s) for problems. The problem is that the book/script usually doesn't have all the answers. Their inability to go off script (or to jump ahead) when dealing with customers who have already isolated and determined the problem(s) cause more consternation then would be from someone trained to be more "flexible" and not so "linear" in their thinking. The Google, Apple, et al. Collusion case proves that there is not a shortage of American IT types, but simply a shortage of "cheap to hire" IT types.
http://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/
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never mind
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No lack of American citizen personnel for nursing. Recent grads go without work while they are imported from Nigera, India, & such. Get one of them in a position of authority and you end up with "all-Indian" floors as they discriminate in favor of similar imports. Same with the Nigerians, but they usuall y come with the increased risk of sexual assault from the male Nigerian nurses.
Plenty of comp sci grads going without work, too.
The farm labor component of fruits & vegetables is a tiny proportion of the price paid by the consumer. Double the cost of farm labor and a head of lettuce goes up a whopping $0.05 or so to the consumer. There is a level of pay where I would quit my current job and do any of these jobs.
Have not seen studies for engineering, software, & IT, but the non-labor cost per hour of my time charged a customer dwarfs my labor (salary, benefits, etc.). IOW, overhead and compliance and all that jazz is greater than the cost of labor.
Do I hear a call for tariffs? Sounds good to me. NAFTA and WTO have been nothing but a curse.
Indeed. They were hammered in court for collusion and anti-competitive practices. And retaliated against companies that did not play ball.
ZOMG I'm agreeing with Roo ster!
You put more money in someone's pocket (especially when they work for it), they will spend more money, hopefully causing economic growth. You stagnate their wages where they are living paycheck to paycheck, the economy isn't going to grow.
Also industry has done it to themselves, running lean for many years has left a knowledge gap between the older skilled workers and now the need to hire replacement workers.
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11163862_880187302044187_5654524978042765824_n.jpg?oh=f4647640fbeb5f3d023845d88d96bedd&oe=55DF95FB&__gda__=1436766609_34017c99cb5f154aa8ecce195790b1e1)
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ZOMG I'm agreeing with Roo ster!
You put more money in someone's pocket (especially when they work for it), they will spend more money, hopefully causing economic growth. You stagnate their wages where they are living paycheck to paycheck, the economy isn't going to grow.
Who's going to pay for that? I don't know of any money trees. You put more money in someone's pocket, it generally means it's coming out of yours.
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It certainly doesn't help that our FedGov has done a lot over the years to increase the cost of employees.
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Who's going to pay for that? I don't know of any money trees. You put more money in someone's pocket, it generally means it's coming out of yours.
Perhaps management can take a little paycut or a little thinning of their ranks. I've been on the receiving end of reports of consulting firms how to trim the excess in higher ed, they never seem to report that reduction of management personal would be a easy place to trim some costs. Its always about making the lowest level work more or reduce services to the lower workers.
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Perhaps management can take a little paycut or a little thinning of their ranks. I've been on the receiving end of reports of consulting firms how to trim the excess in higher ed, they never seem to report that reduction of management personal would be a easy place to trim some costs. Its always about making the lowest level work more or reduce services to the lower workers.
If it's voluntary, they can certainly do whatever they want as private entities. That CEO in Silicon Valley just made news last week by reducing his salary and setting the minimum wage at his company at $70K. By force of government is a different story though. Then you run into the Nancy Pelosi model where she argues that raising welfare payments puts more money in the recipients pockets to stimulate the economy.
Of course the Silicon Valley example is a billionaire, so like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, it's easy for him to say he deserves a cut, since he has millions already set aside. Much harder for the small business owner to do.
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If it's voluntary, they can certainly do whatever they want as private entities. That CEO in Silicon Valley just made news last week by reducing his salary and setting the minimum wage at his company at $70K. By force of government is a different story though. Then you run into the Nancy Pelosi model where she argues that raising welfare payments puts more money in the recipients pockets to stimulate the economy.
Of course the Silicon Valley example is a billionaire, so like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, it's easy for him to say he deserves a cut, since he has millions already set aside. Much harder for the small business owner to do.
Of course it would be voluntary in private industry.
I don't see how a small business would push for a H1B visa fulltime employees, if they can't afford to pay wages of skilled labor, they probably are not very profitable to begin with and not selling their product at the right price or enough volume.
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The thing is Ben we are asking for the market to work. The problem is that the companies have used both illegal methods (price fixing collusion) and government force (more H1B visas) to manipulate and distort the market.
Yes, I get get that companies have to drive down costs, but last I checked, both Apple and Google have posted exceptionally large profits and stock price growth.
And to HTG:
Perhaps you are looking in the wrong place. (and maybe expecting a bit much)
I went to Devry and every 4 months they would graduate a batch of 60+ Electronic Technicians (Not a BA, but an AA). I know you said the new grads don't know much. Guess what. That's true of any new grad or even a new person in that position. Figure it takes from 3-6 months before they can be left on their own and do the job in a productive manner.
Try the local JUCO or if you're near one a Tech School like DeVry. Find a person and train them. You have to make an investment in them beyond a paycheck. There hasn't been one job I've held where I either knew everything I needed to know going in, or hired people and expected them to know everything they needed to know on day one. But I tried to either soak up or impart that wisdom over time. Those that learned and then applied what they learned, I kept. Those that didn't, I didn't.
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Of course it would be voluntary in private industry.
I don't see how a small business would push for a H1B visa fulltime employees, if they can't afford to pay wages of skilled labor, they probably are not very profitable to begin with and not selling their product at the right price or enough volume.
Actually, it really not that hard. Run an ad in the local paper/internet with the job opening and the low pay. After a couple weeks/months go and ask for H1B visas since there are no native workers available to fill the position. Easy-Peasy.
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Actually, it really not that hard. Run an ad in the local paper/internet with the job opening and the low pay. After a couple weeks/months go and ask for H1B visas since there are no native workers available to fill the position. Easy-Peasy.
You would hope that agency that approves that request would ask for proof and see that you are trying to game the system. One would hope.
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You would hope that agency that approves that request would ask for proof and see that you are trying to game the system. One would hope.
Bwwwwwaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha*
Pepsico did it all the time when hiring Assistant Restaurant Managers (Very, very, very few ever advanced from that level). But we had lots of Indian, Pakistani, and Non-Mexican Sud Americans filling those positions and that's how it was done....
*- Form properly filled out, attached ads, and any resumes received along with reasons for not hiring, especially if the applicants turned down the offer made. Appropriate boxes checked, here's your H1B visa(s).
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Bwwwwwaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha*
Pepsico did it all the time when hiring Assistant Restaurant Managers (Very, very, very few ever advanced from that level). But we had lots of Indian, Pakistani, and Non-Mexican Sud Americans filling those positions and that's how it was done....
*- Form properly filled out, attached ads, and any resumes received along with reasons for not hiring, especially if the applicants turned down the offer made. Appropriate boxes checked, here's your H1B visa(s).
Like I said one would hope. Perhaps the same a-holes that run the usajobs.gov site, should switch over to immigration. No one would be allowed in the country if they ran it like they do usajobs.gov.
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Nnever mind. This is not something I want to discuss on a public internet forum.
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Back in the early stages after 9/11 companies and the government were hiring all the intel analyst they could, as long as they had a few years experience. I turned down two or three jobs because I didn't want to relocate the family. Fast forward to 2012/2013 time frame as we "pulled" out of Iraq those jobs now required a degree along with 3-5 years experience. I don't have the degree but have well beyond the 3-5 years experience that the degree won't teach you and no one will even take a second look. :facepalm:
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Maybe it's different in TX, but in CA, nursing jobs go begging. I have a couple of relatives in the field getting tons of overtime they'd rather not have.
Anyway, I don't want to start a whole big thing, but I guess I'm a little confused that on a forum where most of the members are all capitalist and Ayn Rand, that we're mad at private businesses hiring whoever the hell they want, and private citizens, whether born here or here legally, accepting whatever wage they want.
Ayn Rand is a great read in your late teens or early twenties, but the validity of her writing is vulnerable to assaults by subsequent experience.
Also, you mistake many self-described lower-case "L" libertarians (SDLCL) for Randians, an-caps, "privatize the sidewalks" types, and the like. Many of the SDLCL are nothing more than conservatives who believe in the founding documents of our country. Period, full-stop. (They need a new label, since Big Conservatism no longer represents such quaint notions as found in those documents.) They have not delved into the guts of philosophical libertarianism and seen how incompatible the underlying assumptions are with our founding documents and America as a nation-state. Others are conservatives with no or little faith in lower-case "O" orthodox Christianity and could not care less about moral issues, but still care about America as a nation-state. Then there are the libertarian conservatives in college who want to leave open the option of getting laid. A full-up conservative front can be detrimental to that cause. Best be "libertarian" and do as one pleases without being called out as a hypocrite.
Those who do not kneel at the libertarian altar feel obligations and values other than the libertine. One might be love of country and its preservation. Replacing Americans with surly and unassimilable helot-class minorities is detrimental to this end, as demography is destiny. The magic of translocation is not considered a foregone conclusion by such folk. Another is simple justice and moral indignation at the privatization of profit and socialization of costs that occurs with illegal immigration and many of the work visa programs. To those who think it wrong to snatch the profits while leaving their fellow taxpayers to shoulder the burden of immigrant (illegal or work-visa) impact on our gov't & social systems, such private business owners are no better than a welfare queen or crony capitalist.
There are several threads here about the stupidity of college degrees as prerequisites for so many jobs, especially in IT. So who cares if the person with a comp sci degree from a crappy state college can't get a job, but the self-taught kid from Kansas (or Poland) with hands-on mad skillz can? Or that they may decide that they're fine with $25/hr, while a degreed individual with no experience thinks they're worth $50/hr, and dammit, it's the fault of big business that they can't find a job in their field?
I agree that credentialism is an asinine, but expected, result of our anti-discrimination laws.
Don't give a damn about the kiddo from Poland. The millions of folk who are already Americans are more than enough for me to work up concern over. Let Poland take care of the Poles.
It is the fault of big business if they collude to:
1. Keep wages down by mutual non-poaching agreements, where they will not hire someone from their competitor. (So much for the free market in labor you were writing about.)
2. Lobby gov't to bring in foreigners to undercut American wages. (Again, crony capitalism.)
I am just not all that keen on welfare for billionaires taken out of the backs of American workers, blue collar or tech industry.
I also don't see much difference between this and 'Right to Work" states. I think most here are in favor of them. Isn't a primary design of that system to allow businesses to hire who they want, and if a person is happy working at a non-union $25/hr job, vs a union $50/hr job, that they have a right to work at that lower wage if both they and their employer are happy with the deal?
Again, some folk place a value on America, fellow Americans, and maintaining a decent place for their children to grow up. We are not interested in transforming America into a third-world oligarchy with a huge underclass, a thick upper crust, and a slim middle class. America began as a country with a large middle class and relatively expensive labor costs. Those high labor costs drove capital investment and innovation. Bring third world labor to America willy-nilly and pretty soon you have a third world society.
I simply see individuals here legally via visa as no different than anyone else who may take a job at whatever wage. If the market approves, then maybe that's the correct wage. If the market, and consumers, see crappy service at that wage, or workers stop accepting it, or demand for the job goes up so much relative to supply, then the wage increases.
Again, as I mentioned above, I only have my one data point, but what I saw was individuals not only getting equally compensated, but individuals who worked hard and were eager to work because they went to a lot of trouble and were driven to get those visas. Certainly they worked harder with a better attitude than many of my US born coworkers, who had a "This is what I'm owed" mentality (though I also had very hard working and conscientious coworkers).
Take a gander at STEM compensation over the last few decades. Were there a shortage, their compensation would be increasing. But, it has not. It has remained flat or tanked since 1973 or so. That there is the multitude of data points beyond your Canadian buddies. And the trend is downward for blue collar jobs. The supply/demand curve is not suspended when the supply is labor instead of widgets.
I simply see this as market forces at work.
Open your eyes. Lobbying for illegal immigrant labor and H1B visas is politics, not markets at work.
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Excellent post roo, I just want to focus on one point for expansion.
It is the fault of big business if they collude to:
1. Keep wages down by mutual non-poaching agreements, where they will not hire someone from their competitor. (So much for the free market in labor you were writing about.)
2. Lobby gov't to bring in foreigners to undercut American wages. (Again, crony capitalism.)
I am just not all that keen on welfare for billionaires taken out of the backs of American workers, blue collar or tech industry.
I believe it was Friedman who said (paraphrasing here) that a company has a moral obligation to do one thing, maximize value to shareholders. That is not only A moral imperative, but THE ONLY moral imperative. Hence the common use of the phrase "It's just business" whenever a company has done something horrific and the people who implemented it need to try to establish some sort of moral distance between themselves and their actions.
This mindset is pervasive, and it has created this weird little tragedy of the commons where blatantly evil things (like buying off Congressmen in order to get corporate welfare, build walls, and seek rent) are not just seen as acceptable but as the only morally correct choice. If I can bribe a few Senators (structured in a wink wink nudge nudge way so that it's technically "legal") to get them to waste billions of the taxpayer's dollars so that the stock price of my company will rise, well then I have a moral duty to do that! No matter how deleterious the effects on the country, or how vile my actions may be morally.
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Nnever mind. This is not something I want to discuss on a public internet forum.
May I recommend the following book?
http://www.amazon.com/Take-Command-Leadership-Responder-Business/dp/0804138389
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2014/10/buy-this-book-take-command-lessons-in-leadership-how-to-be-a-first-responder-in-business-by-jake-woo.html
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Excellent post roo, I just want to focus on one point for expansion.
I believe it was Friedman who said (paraphrasing here) that a company has a moral obligation to do one thing, maximize value to shareholders. That is not only A moral imperative, but THE ONLY moral imperative. Hence the common use of the phrase "It's just business" whenever a company has done something horrific and the people who implemented it need to try to establish some sort of moral distance between themselves and their actions.
This mindset is pervasive, and it has created this weird little tragedy of the commons where blatantly evil things (like buying off Congressmen in order to get corporate welfare, build walls, and seek rent) are not just seen as acceptable but as the only morally correct choice. If I can bribe a few Senators (structured in a wink wink nudge nudge way so that it's technically "legal") to get them to waste billions of the taxpayer's dollars so that the stock price of my company will rise, well then I have a moral duty to do that! No matter how deleterious the effects on the country, or how vile my actions may be morally.
Holy crap, I'm agreeing with Balog and Roo ster in the same thread. Has hell froze over yet?
On a side note, I know we all have a lot of common ground between us. :)
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I still maintain that, should HRC be the Democrat nominee, she will be elected POTUS. And I still see no reason she won't get the nomination.
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I still maintain that, should HRC be the Democrat nominee, she will be elected POTUS. And I still see no reason she won't get the nomination.
I'm really hoping Jim Webb steps up.
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Isn't there some guy (former Governor or perhaps Senator) from Maryland(D) that's been criticizing everything Hillary that might jump into the race, O'Malley or O'Mallery?
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Shamelessly stolen:
Things that I trust more than Hillary Clinton:
* Mexican tap water
* A rattlesnake with a "pet me" sign
* OJ Simpson showing me his knife collection
* A fart when I have diarrhea
* An elevator ride with Ray Rice
* Taking pills offered by Bill Cosby
* Michael Jackson's Doctor
* An Obama Nuclear deal with Iran
* A Palestinian on a motorcycle
* Gas station Sushi
* A Jimmy Carter economic plan
* Brian Williams news reports
* Loch Ness monster sightings
* Prayers for peace from Al Sharpton
The person who stole it in order to send it to me says it's OK if you steal it.
Of course, this being APS I expect someone will want to add to the list.
stay safe.
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Shamelessly stolen:
Things that I trust more than Hillary Clinton:
* Mexican tap water
* A rattlesnake with a "pet me" sign
* OJ Simpson showing me his knife collection
* A fart when I have diarrhea
* An elevator ride with Ray Rice
* Taking pills offered by Bill Cosby
* Michael Jackson's Doctor
* An Obama Nuclear deal with Iran
* A Palestinian on a motorcycle
* Gas station Sushi
* A Jimmy Carter economic plan
* Brian Williams news reports
* Loch Ness monster sightings
* Prayers for peace from Al Sharpton
The person who stole it in order to send it to me says it's OK if you steal it.
Of course, this being APS I expect someone will want to add to the list.
stay safe.
The Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton publicly appealing for racial harmony, self reliance and the end of affirmative action.
That do 'ya?
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The Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton publicly appealing for racial harmony, self reliance and the end of affirmative action.
That do 'ya?
Bill Clinton with my 21 year old daughter
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Mike Bloomberg with my gun collection.
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I must say, while I'm satisfied with my entry, you gentlemen both bested me handily in terms of brevity and poignancy of impact. Bravo.
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Michael Moore with my hamburger.
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Michael Moore with my double bacon triple cheeseburger.
FIFY
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Second breakfast is still setting the bar a bit low, don't you think?
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Holy crap, I'm agreeing with Balog and Roo ster in the same thread. Has hell froze over yet?
On a side note, I know we all have a lot of common ground between us. :)
I think I saw Satan building a snowman...because I'm agree with all three of you.
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Mike Bloomberg with my gun collection.
If Bloomie's typical, he already has a fine collection. He just doesn't like you having one.
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I still maintain that, should HRC be the Democrat nominee, she will be elected POTUS. And I still see no reason she won't get the nomination.
Maybe I need more [tinfoil] but I've got kind of a sick feeling that it's pretty much a done deal which is why her "campaign" so far has been a sham in the spirit of North Korean propaganda for Little Kim.
I hope I'm just dealing with sleep deprivation induced paranoia.
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If Bloomie's typical, he already has a fine collection. He just doesn't like you having one.
Exactly. I doubt he'd keep any of my cheap gats for hisself.
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Looks like the first "gladiator" to take on Hillary is Lincoln Chafee.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/lincoln-chafees-2016-run-might-matter-more-than-117110262201.html
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
Jenna Marb..... Hillary Clinton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7dxBlTC_9c :rofl:
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http://sendclintoncigars.com/
;)
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http://sendclintoncigars.com/
;)
That sounds pretty funny, but where is the confirmation that they're actually mailing cigars anywhere?
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That sounds pretty funny, but where is the confirmation that they're actually mailing cigars anywhere?
Depends on what the meaning of "confirmation" is.
They're claiming that proceeds go to the Wounded Warrior Project: http://electleaders.com/2015/04/hillary-furious-as-thousands-of-americans-send-cigars-to-her-office/
One could contact WWP to confirm.
Or just ask for a tracking number when making the purchase.
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Klavan proposes alternatives to Hillary. I would vote for any of them.
http://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2015/04/13/some-other-good-democrat-nominees/
stay safe.
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Bernie is in. As much as I hate, with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns, socialism, I'd rather have Bernie than Hillary. Or Jeb, come to think of it.
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Bernie is in. As much as I hate, with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns, socialism, I'd rather have Bernie than Hillary. Or Jeb, come to think of it.
They're all Socialists, you just (wisely) picked the least loathsome.
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Klavan proposes alternatives to Hillary. I would vote for any of them.
http://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2015/04/13/some-other-good-democrat-nominees/
stay safe.
I have a feeling even the squishy Republicans might be better than at least most current Democrats. They are probably no better, but have a more conservative base they have to please occasionally.
I am not so sure most of the Democrats are any better than Hilary. I am thinking they are just better politicians.
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I have a feeling even the squishy Republicans might be better than at least most current Democrats. They are probably no better, but have a more conservative base they have to please occasionally.
I am not so sure most of the Democrats are any better than Hilary. I am thinking they are just better politicians.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I am not so sure most of the Democrats are any better than Hilary. I am thinking they are just better politicians.
They at least are not women.
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Well the money sources of the Clinton Foundations finally made it to Good Morning America this morning. It wasn't a very favorable news story either, maybe the MSM is going to put her under the bus?
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So now we are looking for actually honest politicians? Got a couple for you:
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/59233/sex-drugs-unions--italian-porn-star-running-for-rome-council-on-liberal-agenda
She offered to have sex with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to prevent the Gulf War -- and renewed the offer in 2002 as the campaign to invade Iraq gathered force in Britain and the United States.
In 1991, she founded a party called the "Party of Love" with fellow Italian porn star Moana Pozzi1 -- which became popular as a protest party amid a wave of political corruption scandals.
stay safe.
1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moana_Pozzi
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Yeah, I know. I didn't say they wouldn't pass bad legislation. There is probably a bigger difference between Ron Paul and the squishy Republicans than between the squishies and most Democrat Politicians.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDXs2pMVEAETbqu.jpg)