Propane vs Kerosene vs ???: Car Camping & SHTF (Bug-In)

[roo_ster]

I aim to gear up for car camping, what with my son in Scouts and the fact we like to camp anyways.  I have had bits of heating/cooking/lighting gear here & there over the years, but nothing stuck.

I figure that if I am gearing up for camping, I might as well gear up for a SHTF bug-in, too, as far as that sort of gear.

Here is the deal:
* I have natural gas service, and a tap/spigot already on the side of the house I could use.
* I also have a propane stand-alone grill.
* Not sure about the usability of natural gas in propane units
* Not sure about the disruption of NG service in SHTF situations
* SHTF is most likely tornado.  Too far inland to get too savaged by a hurricane, though we might be on the edge of the chaos along the coast.  Other likely causes are human-caused (riots, terrorism).

This is the gear I am to acquire:
* Portable grill
* Portable cooktop/range
* Lanterns
* Small space heater (1 room/tent)
* Anything I am missing?

I think I have narrowed the options to kerosene & propane.  I have eliminated butane and white gas, as they don't seem to to be able to cover all the bases.

Kerosene Pros
* No fittings to fiddle with.  Pour it in & go.
* Good to go for long term storage.
* Can be filtered if it gets contaminated.
* Can burn several similar fuels in a pinch
* Storage containers easily refilled: no need for a high-pressure station.
* Storage containers are cheap.
* Can burn in simple, non-pressurized lamps in addition to pressurized lanterns.

Propane Pros
* Can use a single propane tank to fuel almost everything, given hoses & fittings.
* Least messy, as it never gets on your hands in liquid form.
* Long term storage good.
* I think propane hardware can be used to bun natural gas, but not sure.

So, what do y'all think?

[Brad Johnson]

First...
NG fitted appliances/lanterns cannot be switched to propane by simply swapping supply lines.  You have to change the orifice (or whatever kind of metering device the mfg uses) before the unit will function properly on the other fuel.  That being said, many mfg offer conversion kits that will allow you to switch from one to the other.  I saw a BBQ grill at Sams yesterday that offered just such a kit.

Second...
Kerosene will eventually go bad, and sooner than you think.  Also, keronsene-fueled units cannot be used with any other fuel unless designed for that contingency.

Third...
If you go kerosene you will have a supply of fuel that can only be used for those devices (and maybe parts cleaning).  Plus, kerosene is getting harder and harder (read more and more expensive) to find in bulk, especially in urban areas.

I would tell you to go propane for the simple reason that it's more widely available and most camping gear is available in inexpensive propane versions.  Plus, if you truly do get into a SHTF situation it will be far easier to find random supplies of propane.  Kerosene?  Not so much.  Most every home has a BBQ grill with a twenty pounder attached.  You can also get a hose/adapter that will allow you to go from small connection (portable cannister for lanterns/grills, portable propane torches) to large connection (20 lb and larger bulk cylinders).

Kerosene is pretty cool and there are some neat products out there made for it, but propane wins hands-downs in terms of availability and your ability to convert to a second fuel source.

Brad

[never_retreat]

Propane has more BTU's per gallon than NG. It is also more dense.
The heating device in question will need to orifice changed. They are bigger on natural gas fired items.
So something made for propane will work with NG (not properly but might work). Other way around you stand a good chance of bang.

[never_retreat]

Plus, if you truly do get into a SHTF situation it will be far easier to find random supplies of propane.  Kerosene?  Not so much.  Most every home has a BBQ grill with a twenty pounder attached. 

My plan calls for borrowing a roll back and stocking up on 1000 gal tanks. You can find them all over the place just laying in peoples yards.

[charby]

I use both propane and white gas (coleman gas), this depends upon what I am doing and the outside temps.

I use propane for my ice fishing shanty heater, gas grill, coleman stove and a lantern, I also have propane on my camper.

I use while gas for lanterns, back packing stoves and two burner stoves.

[AJ Dual]

I've used kerosene and white gas/naptha lanterns and stoves as well. When Mrs. Dual and I were dating, she was still a student in the UW system, and their student bookstore rented all sorts of camping gear for low fees, like a buck or two for a lantern for the weekend etc. and we'd camp in the surrounding state parks with friends on the weekends. They had a lot of the older style items that used those fuels.

There is a reason most everything has gone Propane these days. Self-pressurizing, cleaner burning, and less risk (normally) of CO poisoning.

And if you car camp, as stated above, Walmart usually carries a Coleman propane "tree" adapter with hoses for the lanterns and stoves that uses the 20 or 40lb propane tanks which also serve as a handy base, especially for the lantern.

[AZRedhawk44]

This is the gear I am to acquire:
* Portable grill
* Portable cooktop/range
* Lanterns
* Small space heater (1 room/tent)
* Anything I am missing?

I feel I messed this one up in my SHTF bug-in / bug-out / plain old normal camping gear in regards to my portable stove.  I have a Coleman 2-burner model that folds in half and runs off the little 16 ounce propane bottles.  I also have a lantern that runs off the same stuff.

Good gear if the temps remain above 50 degrees for your entire trip or situation.

Bad gear if the temps get anywhere near freezing.  Not so much with the lantern... but the stove will freeze its own regulator shut.  Propane is a refrigerant, after all.  In cool enough temps, when it expands as it reaches the regulator, it can freeze the regulator from functioning.

The white gas and kerosene models, though... the fuel delivery system is less prone to freezing.

[French G.]

I am still in aquisition mode, my plan is to have both white gas and propane. I have 3.5 white gas lanterns, 1 propane lantern, and two white gas pack stoves. I want to build a field kitchen of sorts with a big stove, sink, all the trappings, good for car camping or bug-in. K-1, haven't considered it much mainly because my only off-road tractor is a gas motor. I grew up on Kero-sun heaters and I'd like to have something like that for an emergency.

[Brad Johnson]

The white gas and kerosene models, though... the fuel delivery system is less prone to freezing.

Good point.  Completely forgot about that.

Brad

[K Frame]

If you're truly worried about it, get a lantern and stove made to military specifications that will burn kerosene, jet fuel, and standard diesel fuel.

[Jamisjockey]

If you're truly worried about it, get a lantern and stove made to military specifications that will burn kerosene, jet fuel, and standard diesel fuel.

Ayup.  A multi-fuel back up of some kind makes great sense. 

[Tallpine]

My plan calls for borrowing a roll back and stocking up on 1000 gal tanks. You can find them all over the place just laying in peoples yards.

Yards of people armed with rifles 

[mtnbkr]

If you're truly worried about it, get a lantern and stove made to military specifications that will burn kerosene, jet fuel, and standard diesel fuel.

MSR makes a couple nice backpacking stoves that will burn just about anything flammable.  The Internationale burns gasoline, white gas, and kerosene.  The Dragonfly burns white gas, kerosene, and diesel.  Coleman makes their stoves and lanterns in Kerosene models (hard to find though) as well as "dual fuel" (gasoline and white gas).

I tend to gravitate towards liquid fuels because I hate the idea of empty propane canisters.  That said, the point made about their ubiquity and the ability to use the larger 20lb tanks is a good one.  White gas is getting harder to find and has skyrocketed in price, while the green propane tanks are everywhere and you can even refill them from the bulk tanks.

Chris

[Ben]

For my standard "bug in", which for me is short power outages etc., I like propane. I have a little Weber Baby Q that I use at least once a week, and the 20lb propane bottle for it hasn't been replaced in a year, so it's good to for most any short term stuff, plus it lets me adjust the flame to cook the way I want.

If things really got SHTF, I guess I'd break out my MSR XKG. It is, I believe, the first multi-fuel stove MSR produced. Loud as an F-18 and you can't adjust the flame for crap, but if things are bad enough that I'm breaking that out to cook with, it means I've probably already gone through the few weeks of "regular" food in my food rotation, and have broken into my Costco "Bucket O' Emergency Food", which is all dehydrated stuff that mostly just needs hot water.

[K Frame]

What's the difference between white gas and unleaded gasoline?

[mtnbkr]

What's the difference between white gas and unleaded gasoline?

IIRC, White Gas, AKA Coleman Fuel, is more refined and doesn't contain the additives that gasoline contains.

edit: this says otherwise, but it's been my experience anything labeled "white gas" burns Coleman/Camp fuel just fine and vice versa.  I suspect the actual difference is miniscule in practice.

Chris

[K Frame]

Holy crap. Most of Coleman's stuff is made overseas these days.

Thailand and China. 

[AZRedhawk44]

I tend to gravitate towards liquid fuels because I hate the idea of empty propane canisters.  That said, the point made about their ubiquity and the ability to use the larger 20lb tanks is a good one.  White gas is getting harder to find and has skyrocketed in price, while the green propane tanks are everywhere and you can even refill them from the bulk tanks.

Chris

Yes, you "can" refuel them and for the most part it's perfectly safe to do so as long as you're not a complete ar-tard... but they're illegal to transport across State lines once refueled.

[mtnbkr]

Yes, you "can" refuel them and for the most part it's perfectly safe to do so as long as you're not a complete ar-tard... but they're illegal to transport across State lines once refueled.

Interesting, I was unaware of the State line issue.  Not that it affects me.  I don't own anything that uses the canisters and do almost all of my camping within the state.  That said, how would anyone tell it had been refilled?

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Holy crap. Most of Coleman's stuff is made overseas these days.

Thailand and China. 

Yeah, but older used Coleman gear is available cheap online and locally.  Parts are available too, so you can rebuild just about anything they've made in the last 50 years.  I personally use a two burner "white gas" stove that's older than me.  Folks I camp with frequently have lanterns that are at least 20 years old. 

Chris

[K Frame]

Yep, fixing good American steel with parts "crafted" with the utmost care by laborer's at the People's Liberation Army Socialist Collective Word and Punishment Academy...

[Tallpine]

I've burned regular unleaded in Coleman stoves with no apparent problem.

[mtnbkr]

Yep, fixing good American steel with parts "crafted" with the utmost care by laborer's at the People's Liberation Army Socialist Collective Word and Punishment Academy...

There are always candles and oil lamps powered by whale fat.

I've burned regular unleaded in Coleman stoves with no apparent problem.

So have the people I hunt with.  The globes on the lanterns are a bit more smoked than they would be otherwise, but the devices work without issue.  I have enough Coleman fuel on hand to last several years at my current rate of consumption, so I haven't tried it myself.  However, my lantern is an actual "dual fuel" model, so unleaded is going to work in it without issue.

Chris

[freakazoid]

I hate the idea of empty propane canisters.

 

[mtnbkr]

Sorry, left out a sentence or three.  I hate generating the additional trash.  If I used propane for everything, I'd easily go through 2-3 of those on a weekend camping trip.  Back in the day, I'd go out into the woods for an entire week.  Those canisters just represent a lot of bulky useless trash. 

Chris