Author Topic: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel  (Read 17601 times)

AZRedhawk44

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http://wcbstv.com/national/hillary.clinton.israel.2.945238.html

Whodathunkit?  You mean she only catered to "the jooz" to get the New York vote?  And the Obama administration is choosing to increase support for the Palestinians?  I'm so shocked... ;/

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Jewish Leaders Blast Clinton Over Israel Criticism
Zuckerman, Lawmakers, Local Jews Say Secretary Of State Not The Hillary Clinton They Used To Know
Hillary Pressuring Israel To Speed Up Aid To Gaza Reporting
Marcia Kramer NEW YORK (CBS) ― 

In a swift about face from her views as New York's senator, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is now hammering Israel over its treatment of Palestinians in Gaza.

As First Lady, Clinton raised eyebrows when she kissed Suha Arafat.

Since she was then seeking a Senate seat the resulting brouhaha caused her to "re-think" her positions.

"I'm a very strong supporter of Israel," Clinton said back in February 2000.

On Thursday, as Secretary of State she had yet another about face in the form of angry messages demanding Israel speed up aid to Gaza. Jewish leaders are furious.

"I am very surprised, frankly, at this statement from the United States government and from the secretary of state," said Mortimer Zuckerman, publisher of the New York Daily News and member of the NYC Jewish Community Relations Council.

"I liked her a lot more as a senator from New York," Assemblyman Dov Hikind, D-Brooklyn, said. "Now, I wonder as I used to wonder who the real Hillary Clinton is."

Clinton's decision to hammer Israel comes as the Clintons and President Barack Obama are planning to give the Palestinians $900 million toward the rebuilding of Gaza in the wake of the Israeli offensive that was sparked by Hamas rocket fire.

"We are working across the government to see what our approach will be," Clinton said.

 Is Hillary Taking Sides? Submit Your Comments Here.

"I don't believe that we should be in a position at this point to do anything to strengthen Hamas," Zuckerman said. "We surely know what Hamas stands for as I say they are the forward battalions of Iran."

For some, Clinton's change of position is upsetting.

"I feel it's unfortunate that they don't continue the policy of the Bush administration, which was much more pro-Israel," said Akiva Homnick of Jerusalem.

"I happen to have a lot of family who live in Israel and I feel, personally, when you are dealing with people who are very strong against you, you have to stand up to them," said Tami Davudoff of Kew Gardens.

"Hillary had Mrs. Arafat here and she invited Mrs. Arafat for lunch when she was the first lady," added Babak Chafe of Great Neck. "She is pro-Palestinian 100 percent, really. Of course, we always knew it."

"The easy way to make a peace agreement is to pressure Israel because you can't pressure the Arabs," said Solomon Loewi of Monsey, N.Y.

All this could lead to a chilly reception when Mrs. Clinton arrives in the Middle East next week.

The new U.S. envoy to the Middle East, George Mitchell, arrived in Israel on Thursday with a mission to inject new life into peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2009, 12:18:12 PM »
They need a bailout, they bought the bigger rockets they can't pay for.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2009, 12:18:36 PM »
1. Hillary is an American Senator. She is not an MK. She is not sworn loyalty to Israel. If she believes that America can benefit from cutting Israel loose, then it is her duty as an American public official to act on these beliefs. Period. Israel is not sacred.

2. Saying Palestinian civilians have a right to decent living and that Gaza should be rebuilt is not somehow 'pro-Palestinian'. If a person says otherwise, they have an agenda.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2009, 12:19:30 PM »
1. Hillary is an American Senator. She is not an MK. She is not sworn loyalty to Israel. If she believes that America can benefit from cutting Israel loose, then it is her duty as an American public official to act on these beliefs. Period. Israel is not sacred.

2. Saying Palestinian civilians have a right to decent living and that Gaza should be rebuilt is not somehow 'pro-Palestinian'. If a person says otherwise, they have an agenda.

Except that most all of the funds going to the Palis are going to be siphoned off by Hamas to buy crap that they will then launch at you.

Gaza could have been a tourist resort. Instead it's a missile base occupied by people whose only purpose in life is sour grapes.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2009, 12:22:25 PM »
Except that most all of the funds going to the Palis are going to be siphoned off by Hamas to buy crap that they will then launch at you.

Again, that is completely irrelevant. There are thousands of people suffering in a crisis that is not their fault - over 50% of the Palestinians in Gaza didn't even vote for Hamas. We cannot just stand by and watch them suffer just because they're not brave enough or not sufficiently heavily armed to overthrow Hamas.

More importantly: Hillary Clinton is not an Israeli official. She is an American public official. If the American interest can somehow be served by siding against Israel on some issue, it is her duty to stab Israel as hard and deep as she can.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2009, 12:22:31 PM »
2. Saying Palestinian civilians have a right to decent living and that Gaza should be rebuilt is not somehow 'pro-Palestinian'. If a person says otherwise, they have an agenda.

My agenda is for neither Israel nor Palestine to cause my country grief.

Israel succeeds at that.  Palestine does not.  Considering they are a leading state-sponsor of terrorist attacks, and democratically elected to put terrorists in power in their government, I'm just dandy with letting them roast in their own self-created juices.

Obama's blanket Palestinian amnesty infuriates me.  I wonder how long until we get Palestinian terrorists in our country.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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Manedwolf

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2009, 12:25:36 PM »
Obama's blanket Palestinian amnesty infuriates me.  I wonder how long until we get Palestinian terrorists in our country.

We are going to import thousands as refugees. I pointed to the order he signed last month in a thread on round table.

Werewolf

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2009, 12:33:42 PM »
Again, that is completely irrelevant. There are thousands of people suffering in a crisis that is not their fault - over 50% of the Palestinians in Gaza didn't even vote for Hamas. We cannot just stand by and watch them suffer just because they're not brave enough or not sufficiently heavily armed to overthrow Hamas.
The 50% that didn't vote for Hamas stood idly by while they pelted Israel with rockets. By doing nothing they are as responsible as Hamas.

If they don't want to suffer the consequences of harboring thugs within their society then they should rid themselves of the thugs.

Otherwise they should just STFU, live with the consequnces of their actions/inactions and put their hands back in their pockets. But they will not do that because the USA is now ruled by a boneheaded bleeding heart who thinks money grows on trees and every poor, downtrodden soul on the planet needs some of it.
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makattak

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2009, 01:34:21 PM »
Again, that is completely irrelevant. There are thousands of people suffering in a crisis that is not their fault - over 50% of the Palestinians in Gaza didn't even vote for Hamas. We cannot just stand by and watch them suffer just because they're not brave enough or not sufficiently heavily armed to overthrow Hamas.

More importantly: Hillary Clinton is not an Israeli official. She is an American public official. If the American interest can somehow be served by siding against Israel on some issue, it is her duty to stab Israel as hard and deep as she can.

Hmm... so we have three options:

1. Give money to the Palestinians in order to "Relieve the Suffering" that will, for the most part, just be used to prop up the Palestinian leaders and support their war against Israel.

2. Realize that sometimes "colonization" is actually better for the people there and just take over governance of Gaza

or

3. Stop trying to mess around in other countries.

Of these, my preference is #3. However, of these, #2 has the best chance of ending these problems.

Which one is most likely to occur, though? Oh right, #1 cause it's the one that makes us feel good even if it doesn't work.
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Seenterman

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 01:37:26 PM »
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Gaza could have been a tourist resort. Instead it's a missile base occupied by people whose only purpose in life is sour grapes.

Thats a pretty bias statement against the people of Palestine.


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The 50% that didn't vote for Hamas stood idly by while they pelted Israel with rockets. By doing nothing they are as responsible as Hamas.

That is a ludicrous statement, thats like saying the Americans on board the planes that crashed into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon are equally responcable for 9/11 as the terrorist who committed the atrocity. What means do the Palestinian people have to revolt against an elected part of their government?

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If they don't want to suffer the consequences of harboring thugs within their society then they should rid themselves of the thugs.

How? Hamas is the armed orginization in Palestine, the Palestinian civilians would get slaughtered.

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Otherwise they should just STFU, live with the consequnces of their actions/inactions and put their hands back in their pockets. But they will not do that because the USA is now ruled by a boneheaded bleeding heart who thinks money grows on trees and every poor, downtrodden soul on the planet needs some of it.

WoW. Well first off the USA has always has a reputation of suppling aid to foreign countries as a means of building a relationship with the international community. Not that I agree we should be suppling so much aid to ANYONE but ourselves during the current economic times but I think its ignorant that not many posters here can form a distinction between Hamas and the Palestinian people.

Hama is made up of Palestinian people, but the Palestinian people are NOT made up entirely of Hamas supporters.

A hypothetical situation would be if terrorist camps in Mexico went active and started committing acts of terrorism across the US and the federal government withdrew all federal aid to the Mexico and started bombing the entire country. To hell with the civilians there they should have taken up arms against the terrorists.  Granted its a bit of a reach but I think you can see the point of the comparison.

Manedwolf

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2009, 01:39:18 PM »
Thats a pretty bias statement against the people of Palestine.

Yeah, it is.

They need to stop acting like bratty children stomping their feet, too, and take responsibility for their own future. Jordan kicked their behinds out for being lousy guests who caused a lot of trouble. Egypt built a border wall because they were killing Egyptian police. They demand stuff from Israel, then attack Israel. Nobody else in their right mind wants to deal with such a dysfunctional society in terms of selling them a damned thing. Nobody but the Iranian regime that's supplying them things that explode.

Jordan, on the other hand, is stable and has money from Dubai flowing in. Skyscrapers going up.

Biased? You bet. I'm not very PC, I'm a realist. Deal.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 01:42:53 PM by Manedwolf »

bk425

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2009, 01:43:07 PM »
Again, that is completely irrelevant. There are thousands of people suffering in a crisis that is not their fault - over 50% of the Palestinians in Gaza didn't even vote for Hamas. We cannot just stand by and watch them suffer just because they're not brave enough or not sufficiently heavily armed to overthrow Hamas.

More importantly: Hillary Clinton is not an Israeli official. She is an American public official. If the American interest can somehow be served by siding against Israel on some issue, it is her duty to stab Israel as hard and deep as she can.
I got some pretty poor grades in high school history, but what I've read since then has convinced me of the actual truth of the phrase "of the people by the people and for the people". It means that the people in a society -are- the power of the government. So, I respectfully disagree.
 While I would not want the civilian walking by the trio setting a rocket launcher next to the local school to face recriminations for that I do believe that in aggregate the -people- that make up a country -do- have responsibility for it's government. And, in aggregate, the folks who call themselves "Palestinian" do pay a price for allowing hamas to continue. I sincerely look forward to the day that I can in some way help a group looking to throw off the reigns of hamas and move those people toward peace. I don't think it'll be next week though :)

bk425

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2009, 01:53:10 PM »

That is a ludicrous statement, thats like saying the Americans on board the planes that crashed into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon are equally responcable for 9/11 as the terrorist who committed the atrocity. What means do the Palestinian people have to revolt against an elected part of their government?

How? Hamas is the armed orginization in Palestine, the Palestinian civilians would get slaughtered.

...
The peoples power extends far beyond armed revolution, especially in countries with elections. They have economic, political (as long as they can vote in reasonably fair elections) and social power.
Economic- even if you are unemployed you have hours in a day to spend outside of scavenging for existence. Here you could make signs (and do much more). I don't know the conditions there but a kid with a spray can can make a point most places.
Social- when people in Gaza sit in a blacked out room with candles so foreign photographers can picture the "effects" of Israeli blackouts their friends can be verbally kicking their butts (and, points up to the posters on youtube who did that).
political- there's an election coming there, I believe there are organizations looking for watchers, there are certainly opportunities for people on the scene to walk around and talk to their friends about the cost of the last election.
My point here is not these three examples, they're only examples. But people have ways to effect power, even in Gaza, even without using force.

Seenterman

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2009, 03:25:18 PM »
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Biased? You bet. I'm not very PC, I'm a realist. Deal.

Yea, you sound like a bigot too. Its unfortunate your clearly unable to make a distinction between Hamas a terrorist orginization, and Palestinian people. Your probably the type who preaches about Nuking Iraq for the better of the world.

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My point here is not these three examples, they're only examples. But people have ways to effect power, even in Gaza, even without using force.

I partially agree with your statement, but in reality I think is any Palestinian civilian that tried openly protesting Hamas is liable to get killed rather quickly. As I've said before Hamas uses civilians as a PR tool, they'll set up shop in a school, fire at Israeli troops, run and then blame Isreal when 10 Palestinian children are killed. I dont think it would be beyond them to murder people openly speaking out against them.

Manedwolf

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2009, 03:29:59 PM »
Yea, you sound like a bigot too. Its unfortunate your clearly unable to make a distinction between Hamas a terrorist orginization, and Palestinian people. Your probably the type who preaches about Nuking Iraq for the better of the world.

Oh, I'm a BIGOT because I point out the fact that the "Palestinians" are a broken society who need to take a good look in the mirror and be something besides a missile base of hate and jealousy. Right.

And keep your strawmen to yourself. Also, it's "you're", not "your".

Jamisjockey

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2009, 03:32:20 PM »
Yea, you sound like a bigot too. Its unfortunate your clearly unable to make a distinction between Hamas a terrorist orginization, and Palestinian people. Your probably the type who preaches about Nuking Iraq for the better of the world.

  Back off the name calling. 

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2009, 04:24:19 PM »
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I dont think it would be beyond them to murder people openly speaking out against them.

It is not beyond them. They actively kill people who protest against them.

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And, in aggregate, the folks who call themselves "Palestinian" do pay a price for allowing hamas to continue.

And?

The fact that a government is elected by majority vote does not mean that the civilians in the area in question 'have it coming'. As decent people, we are to be concerned about abuse of innocent civilians, whenever it may occur. More importantly, without economic development in Gaza and the West Bank, there will not be peace.

This is not some left-wing drivel position. This is the position of Binyamin Netanyahu and the Likud party. How is it anti-Israeli for Hillary to take the position of Israel's ruling party?
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Manedwolf

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2009, 04:28:38 PM »
More importantly, without economic development in Gaza and the West Bank, there will not be peace.
[/b]

Got that backwards.

Investors are adverse to having their stuff blown up and appropriated by terrorists.

Jordan has LOTS of investment. Wonder why that is?

2swap

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2009, 04:33:46 PM »
That does not exclude what Micro said. Palestine is in a negative feedback loop here, economy-wise!
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Manedwolf

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2009, 04:34:36 PM »
That does not exclude what Micro said. Palestine is in a negative feedback loop here, economy-wise!

If they'd stop, oh...launching rockets, investors might actually take a look.

Animal Mother

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2009, 04:36:27 PM »
I've never understood why a Jewish person who had the slightest bit of understanding of their history and/or had empathy for the state of Israel would ever vote Democratic.  

MicroBalrog

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2009, 04:36:44 PM »
Have you missed the entire bit where the West Bank is not controlled by Hamas? Where missiles are not being fired from the West Bank? Where Israel and the West Bank people are negotiating a joint private-public project to make the area more welcoming to investors and to have European companies move in giant car factories there?

Again. This is the position of Israel's ruling party - that we need to help the moderate Palestinians put their country on its feet, create a middle-class and everything.

Are you implying Likud is anti-Israeli?
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Animal Mother

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2009, 04:38:22 PM »
The West Bank is not Gaza.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2009, 04:40:08 PM »
The West Bank is not Gaza.

...I am quite aware of the geographic difference, thank you very much. I had a rocket from Gaza fall a block away from my house but a month ago.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Animal Mother

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Re: Hillary, no longer a "New Yorker," supporting Palestine over Israel
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2009, 04:48:37 PM »
What I mean to say is that Fatah, who appears to be getting along with Israel for the moment, wouldn't benefit nearly as much from the aid in question as Hamas would.