Author Topic: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.  (Read 9427 times)

Desertdog

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The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« on: March 20, 2009, 01:44:18 PM »
The truth is finally starting to be spoken.

$1 trillion deficits seen for next 10 years
By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090320/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_budget/print

 
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's budget would generate deficits averaging almost $1 trillion a year over the next decade, according to the latest congressional estimates, significantly worse than predicted by the White House just last month.

The Congressional Budget Office figures, obtained by The Associated Press Friday, predict Obama's budget will produce $9.3 trillion worth of red ink over 2010-2019. That's $2.3 trillion worse than the White House predicted in its budget.

Worst of all, CBO says the deficit under Obama's policies would never go below 4 percent of the size of the economy, figures that economists agree are unsustainable. By the end of the decade, the deficit would exceed 5 percent of gross domestic product, a dangerously high level.

The latest figures, even worse than expected by top Democrats, throw a major monkey wrench into efforts to enact Obama's budget, which promises universal health care for all and higher spending for domestic programs like education and research into renewable energy.

The dismal deficit figures, if they prove to be accurate, inevitably raise the prospect that Obama and his allies controlling Congress would have to consider raising taxes after the recession ends or paring back his agenda.

But without referencing the figures, Obama insisted on Friday that his agenda is still on track.

"What we will not cut are investments that will lead to real growth and prosperity over the long term," Obama said. "That's why our budget makes a historic commitment to comprehensive health care reform. That's why it enhances America's competitiveness by reducing our dependence on foreign oil and building a clean energy economy."

Many Democrats were already uncomfortable with Obama's budget, which promises to cut the deficit to $533 billion in five years. The CBO says the red ink for that year will total $672 billion.

The worsening economy is responsible for the even deeper fiscal mess inherited by Obama. As an illustration, CBO says that the deficit for the current budget year, which began Oct. 1, will top $1.8 trillion, $93 billion more than foreseen by the White House.

The 2009 deficit, fueled by the $700 billion Wall Street bailout and diving tax revenues stemming from the worsening recession, is four times the previous $459 billion record set just last year.

The CBO's estimate for 2010 is worse as well, with a deficit of almost $1.4 trillion expected under administration policies, about $200 billion more than predicted by Obama.

By the end of the decade, the deficit under Obama's blueprint would go back up to $1.2 trillion.

Long-term deficit predictions have proven notoriously fickle — George W. Bush inherited flawed projections of a 10-year, $5.6 trillion surplus and instead produced record deficits — and if the economy outperforms CBO's expectations, the deficits could prove significantly smaller

Democrats in Congress are readying Obama's budget for preliminary votes next week, and they promise to cut the deficit in half within five years.

Democrats are likely to curb somewhat Obama's request for a 9 percent increase in non-defense agency budgets.

Obama's $3.6 trillion budget for the 2010 fiscal year beginning Oct. 1 contains ambitious programs to overhaul the U.S. health care system and initiate new "cap-and-trade" rules to combat global warming.

Both initiatives involve raising federal revenues sharply higher, but those dollars wouldn't be used to defray the burgeoning deficit.

Republicans say Obama's budget plan taxes, spends and borrows too much, and they've been sharply critical of his $787 billion economic stimulus measure and a just-passed $410 billion omnibus spending bill that awarded big increases to domestic agency budgets.

The administration says it inherited deficits totaling $9 trillion over the next decade and that its budget plan cuts $2 trillion from those deficits. But most of those spending reductions come from reducing costs for the war in Iraq.


AZRedhawk44

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 02:01:42 PM »
Quote
But most of those spending reductions come from reducing costs for the war in Iraq.

Great...

Instead of using foreign purchase of T-bills to fund a war (which is hopefully a temporary condition), we use foreign purchase of T-bills to fund our day to day operation of goobermint and social parasitic services.  Then we can never afford a war.  Even if we need to.

What is so hard about saving for these people?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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makattak

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 02:20:34 PM »
Quote
"What we will not cut are investments that will lead to real growth and prosperity over the long term," Obama said. "That's why our budget makes a historic commitment to comprehensive health care reform. That's why it enhances America's competitiveness by reducing our dependence on foreign oil and building a clean energy economy."

What's the quote from Reagan?

"It's not that liberals are ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

These people plan on spending us into oblivion (I'll say the word: hyper-inflation) secure in the knowledge that if we can just spend enough money on "improving" the healthcare system and "discovering" the new "sustainable" energy, they will be our saviours.

That's their plan- we're going to give a bunch of money to people and tell them to make new energy. They honestly believe what they are doing will "save" us.

It's not that they are evil (some may be) but that they are stupid.

That's really all it is, these people who have vast amounts of intelligence are incredibly stupid because they cannot look and see how the world (read: people) actually functions.

Add to it the fact that they think the market simply "gets it wrong" and produces the wrong things and rewards the wrong people and we are looking at the US becoming Argentina if they are allowed to pursue this course.

This must be stopped.

It is not time to say the sky is falling, but it is time to point out that we cannot sustain this.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Monkeyleg

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 06:44:22 PM »
Quote
It's not that they are evil (some may be) but that they are stupid.

I'm more convinced than ever that this is all a deliberate plan to drive the economy into a depression so that the socialists in the White House and congress can consolidate statist powers even more.

It's the only conclusion I can reach when our government is doing exactly the right things to create a repeat of the Great Depression. It cannot be coincidence.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 06:56:03 PM »
I'm more convinced than ever that this is all a deliberate plan to drive the economy into a depression so that the socialists in the White House and congress can consolidate statist powers even more.

It's the only conclusion I can reach when our government is doing exactly the right things to create a repeat of the Great Depression. It cannot be coincidence.
I believe this to be true as well.  Every new policy intended to solve these problems seems finely tuned to make the problems worse.

Standing Wolf

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 11:58:19 PM »
Quote
I'm more convinced than ever that this is all a deliberate plan to drive the economy into a depression so that the socialists in the White House and congress can consolidate statist powers even more.

I'm sorry to say, Monkeyleg, I'm afraid you're right.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

slingshot

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2009, 10:27:58 AM »
The more I see what is actually happening, the more I'm starting to fall in line with this reasoning as well (depression and socialist control of the government).

Obama claims that he is going to reduce the defiicit in his last two years?  How?  Reduction in military spending I would guess...  It is the typical liberal Democrat approach to reducing fiscal spendiing.  Obama still claims the whole deal is something he inherited.  True, but he isn't helping matters much.

Start at the source of the problem and work outward.  Cut taxes immediately and put more money into the pockets of tax payers.  Most will spend it.  This business of a $500 rebate is pure BS.  It didn't work for Bush and it won't work for Obama.  Take over the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac obligations and be done with it.  Change the legislation that created the problem.  Prosecute the worst offenders as is possible under the law or at least tar and feather them and that means politicians too!
It shall be as it was in the past... Not with dreams, but with strength and with courage... Shall a nation be molded to last. (The Plainsman, 1936)

Monkeyleg

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2009, 11:08:19 AM »
OK, I've read three replies to my comments from three reasonable people, so my thoughts are not tinfoil hat stuff.

This has to be stopped now. Does anyone know of groups that are doing something, groups that need help?

longeyes

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 01:04:59 PM »
It's a wartime budget, and I think we know who the war is against.

Maybe this leads to statism.  It can also lead to anarchy.   Somehow I doubt this can really go on for ten years without the wheels coming off, especially when you factor in the other "social improvements" the Obama people have in mind.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 11:32:17 PM »
OK, I've read three replies to my comments from three reasonable people, so my thoughts are not tinfoil hat stuff.

This has to be stopped now. Does anyone know of groups that are doing something, groups that need help?

Cato? CampaignForLiberty? Bureaucrash?
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S. Williamson

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 11:36:01 PM »
OK, I've read three replies to my comments from three reasonable people, so my thoughts are not tinfoil hat stuff.

This has to be stopped now. Does anyone know of groups that are doing something, groups that need help?
Do you really think that there is a possibility of stopping it?

They have all the money.
They have all the fire support.
And we (the people) elected them.  We're in this for the duration.

The only difference between now and the Great Depression that I can see is that nowadays we're already in a war or two.  I'm not sure what the heck can or will happen to "re-vitalize" the economy to something resembling what we've seen in the past.

There is a saying that I hold dear, and has gotten me safely out of several bad situations: "When intelligent people start acting stupid, something is afoot."
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"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
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Balog

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 12:24:26 AM »
Considering how many times FDR got elected, I'm not sure a good bread and circus act can be fought with logic and statesmanship.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 12:28:40 AM »
Considering how many times FDR got elected, I'm not sure a good bread and circus act can be fought with logic and statesmanship.

The fact that that guy pulled it off several times, doesn't mean every guy who's going to imitate him is invincible.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

seeker_two

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 08:39:32 AM »
Do you really think that there is a possibility of stopping it?


Stopping it?.....maybe....

Throwing enough wooden shoes into the machinery that it slows down and gives us time to prepare?.....definitely....

Time for ALL of us to act like LadySmith (in a political, civil manner....of course)....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

MechAg94

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2009, 10:16:47 AM »
Other than support lobby groups that oppose Obama, I would say you need to find a way to support the opposition in the next Congressional elections.  That likely means either supporting Republican candidates or supporting other Democrats in the primaries.  That assumes they oppose what Obama is doing.   
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2009, 02:37:25 PM »
The fact that that guy pulled it off several times, doesn't mean every guy who's going to imitate him is invincible.
Invincible?  No.

But it does indicate that they have a proven winning strategy.

roo_ster

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2009, 04:15:41 PM »
Stopping it?.....maybe....

Throwing enough wooden shoes into the machinery that it slows down and gives us time to prepare?.....definitely....

Time for ALL of us to act like LadySmith (in a political, civil manner....of course)....

wll, if I had the lan I would not mind emulating her when it came to adoting donkeys.
Regards,

roo_ster

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RocketMan

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2009, 05:25:34 PM »
What does having a lan have to do with putting dots on donkeys?    :angel:
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2009, 07:25:19 PM »
jfuser
want a zebra donkey cross ?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

roo_ster

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2009, 10:40:20 AM »
What does having a lan have to do with putting dots on donkeys?    :angel:

Everything, when you are typing on an eeePC 900A's keyboard.  Using it with my hands is like trying to stuff 6 lbs of stuff in a 5lb sack. 

But, I think I may be able to get my wife interested in using it.

Average-sized hands ought to have no trouble.

jfuser
want a zebra donkey cross ?

A "zonkey?"  Or, would that be a "zmule?"

Either way, not suitable for suburbia. 

If/when we escape to more a more rural setting, I would like a menagerie of critters large enough to get the Texas agriculture property tax break.  Preferably some of the more useful and self-sufficient critters.  Pygmy goats to keep the weeds in check.  A male donkey to to keep predators at bay.  Guinea fowl to go hog-wild on ticks.
Regards,

roo_ster

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2009, 10:48:47 AM »
had guineas  too noisy for me.  goats are great  i could send you one of those too! i was looking at thye zebra crosses on craigslist the other day i figure they'd be good critter control till i get another pony
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

longeyes

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2009, 11:14:44 AM »
We're in for the duration?

Well, I guess the issue is how long that duration will be before the avalanche begins in earnest.  There is an underlying instability to the entire system that is ominous in the extreme.
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RevDisk

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2009, 07:51:17 PM »
OK, I've read three replies to my comments from three reasonable people, so my thoughts are not tinfoil hat stuff.

This has to be stopped now. Does anyone know of groups that are doing something, groups that need help?

Yea, there's some good folks out there fighting the good fight.  Looking at the numbers, not doing such a great job since Clinton's FY2000 budget.  Not that it's their fault, but the numbers don't exactly lie. 

National Debt, to the penny

12/29/1995       4,988,664,979,014.54
03/13/2009    10,983,750,182,347.25

 =|


In order to actually do something, you need the attention of either the Dems or the Repubs.  Look at the daily national debt numbers and correlate it to whichever party was in power.  Not much difference, both spent money like drunken sailors with an unlimited credit card.  If you have the collusion of both parties, you're screwed unless you have enough angry people to Throw The Bums Out.  Even then, you're gambling that the newly elected will actually get the message.  I suspect that if you consistently threw out the Incumbents for a number of election cycles, someone would get the message.  But that's just a theory.  We'll see.
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Desertdog

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2009, 08:09:36 PM »
Quote
I suspect that if you consistently threw out the Incumbents for a number of election cycles, someone would get the message.  But that's just a theory.  We'll see.
I always vote against the incumbent in the Primary, if there is an oppont,  but it does not seem to good much good.

sanglant

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Re: The truth is finally starting to be spoken.
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2009, 10:54:27 PM »
What is so hard about saving for these people?

have you ever seen a 5yo in a candy store with $10? same thing :|