Cap and trade

[Monkeyleg]

In the name of Climate Change and all that is Green, the Obama administration is pushing further ahead with the cap and trade plan for emissions.

The sales job on this is so obvious a scam that the media haven't given it a proper explanation. They hype Obama's promise of an energy tax credit for "working families," but they leave out the part about how much more the average family will pay each year for energy.

What's worse is that the media isn't even thinking about the long-term effects of cap and trade.

The system will allow manufacturers to trade carbon credits, and will tax manufacturers who have more emissions than credits. These manufacturers are more likely to be those in the midwest, where coal is a common source for energy production.

These un-green manufacturers will have a choice: they can keep their manufacturing operations in the US, or they can move them to countries with low-cost labor and no penalties for using energy, no matter the source. So, we'll likely see companies like Harley Davidson move manufacturing parts of their business to countries like China.

That means job losses here in the US but, hey, how about those energy tax credits the unemployed will receive?

The cap and trade plan offers an even greater incentive for companies to move their manufacturing operations to other countries while keeping the administrative operations in the US. The companies will be able to sell their carbon credits to other companies, making extra money on top of the money they saved by moving their manufacturing operations overseas.

Now that's change!

Obama promised an ethical administration, a promise that appears to be as hollow as any of his others. But wait until cap and trade is implemented. Can you imagine how much corruption is going to come from lobbying for exemptions from the carbon taxes? There will be thousands of new lobbyists in DC offering every sort of bribe.

Higher utility bills for households, more jobs and manufacturing shipped overseas, and more corruption, all in the name of Climate Change, which is nothing more than a cult religion established by government.

What's not to like?

[RevDisk]

These un-green manufacturers will have a choice: they can keep their manufacturing operations in the US, or they can move them to countries with low-cost labor and no penalties for using energy, no matter the source. So, we'll likely see companies like Harley Davidson move manufacturing parts of their business to countries like China.

That means job losses here in the US but, hey, how about those energy tax credits the unemployed will receive?

Problem with the job losses are the nasty chain of consequences that go with it.  Unfortunately, most old steel towns cratered after the PA steel industry more or less went out of business.  If York loses HD, the entire area going to take a significant hit.

Sigh

Energy taxes are just another hit.  Why the heck is the US becoming so hostile to domestic manufacturing?

[HankB]

Anything involving "carbon credits" is a fraud and a scam.

Carbon credits are an imaginary product - they don't exist outside the imagination of some environuts and politicians.

But the people who "create" these imaginary products want to sell them for real money. But, naturally enough, rational people are not going to voluntarily purchase imaginary products with real money.

Enter The Government - they can force people to cough up the money for this imaginary nonsense.

But if they did that - for example, by forcing every household to buy these imaginary products by adding a line to the 1040 form - it would touch off a lot of anger.

So . . . they come up with a "market based cap-and-trade" program (there's no ACTUAL market for imaginary products) and FORCE utilities to buy these carbon credits; with the cost passed on to their customers, gullible taxpayers will direct their ire against the greedy utilities, rather than the crooked politicians.

And the people who create these imaginary products will then have a dependable revenue stream . . . which they'll no doubt share with their friends in the legislature and White House.

 

[FTA84]

These un-green manufacturers will have a choice: they can keep their manufacturing operations in the US, or they can move them to countries with low-cost labor and no penalties for using energy

This is the goal and the result.  Pollution colonialism.  Out of sight, out of mind is good enough for them.

When I was growing up, many moons ago, I lived in a state bordering Canada (about 30 minutes from the border) where I worked construction with my pops.  Every so often, we would have to go to the construction landfill, and most of the trucks there were from Canada.  Now I am not sure why Canada dumped its trash in America, whether it was the truly economical thing, or if landfills had simply been restricted in Canada.  What I do know, is Canada spouts about how "clean" they are.  It's because they have been dumping their trash in our landfills for 20 years (at a minimum), even when they have more land resources to commit to such things.

We will do the same thing.  Export all the dirty manufacturing jobs so that people can 'oooh and awwww' about how clean America is.  All the while not giving up what we want (inexpensive goods).

[charby]

Anything involving "carbon credits" is a fraud and a scam.

Carbon credits are an imaginary product - they don't exist outside the imagination of some environuts and politicians.

Carbon sequestration isn't a scam, how they are selling it with cap and trade with carbon credits is.

 

[HankB]

Carbon sequestration isn't a scam, . . .

"Scam" is an accurate descriptor when .gov mandates an expensive course of action that serves no useful purpose.

[AZRedhawk44]

Carbon credits are an imaginary product - they don't exist outside the imagination of some environuts and politicians.

But the people who "create" these imaginary products want to sell them for real money. But, naturally enough, rational people are not going to voluntarily purchase imaginary products with real money.

Real money = FRNs?

lol.

The reason carbon credits are baloney and proponents of them should be spit upon, is because their sole intention is to cap industry.  Not to clean up Gaeia.  

I hope some filthy rich manufacturing baron, upon the creation of carbon ponzi schemes in the US, builds a flotilla of barges 12.01 miles outside of every major American port powered by the oldest coal plants he can find, and belches industrial black smoke out onto LA/SF/Seattle/etc.  The company can run a ferry to get workers out to it... who will most certainly come just like they come to Alaska for the fishing industry.

And, because he would be operating in international waters, he can pay his employees based upon any law he wishes.  Pay them well, but in a non-taxable way to the US.  Register the factory ships with Sealand or something like that.

[bmitchell]

Does anyone want to buy some carbon dioxide credits?  For every credit you buy I will breathe one breath less so you can stop feeling guilty about breathing.

Ben

[Monkeyleg]

Does anyone want to buy some carbon dioxide credits?  For every credit you buy I will breathe one breath less so you can stop feeling guilty about breathing.

Now there's an idea. Offer families carbon dioxide credits if they let the family's elderly members die early.

[FTA84]

Now there's an idea. Offer families carbon dioxide credits if they let the family's elderly members die early.

...and excess taxes on those people who breathe through the mouth.

[mtnbkr]

This is the goal and the result.  Pollution colonialism.  Out of sight, out of mind is good enough for them.

QFT.  I've heard exactly that from liberal environut friends of mine when presented with the choice of pollution locally from gas powered motorcycles vs pollution somewhere else from the additional electrical needs of electric motorcycles.  This was prompted by an article regarding a new battery powered motocross bike.

Chris

[longeyes]

Just an attempt to bring back the utopia we used to call the Middle Ages, complete with indulgences and, of course, simony.

[coppertales]

And, guess who has the corner on the carbon credit market? Big al gore.  The crooked dims sure watch out for each other.

When I build my retirement home I was not going to heat with wood because I am getting too old for that.  Now, I have changed my mind on this and will be burning wood for heat, and make lots of smoke......chris3

[makattak]

And, guess who has the corner on the carbon credit market? Big al gore.  The crooked dims sure watch out for each other.

When I build my retirement home I was not going to heat with wood because I am getting too old for that.  Now, I have changed my mind on this and will be burning wood for heat, and make lots of smoke......chris3

You are under the mistaken idea that this is requiring people to purchase "credits" from Al Gore.

Instead, this is a cap program where the government grants a certain number of credits to each business who then may use them or sell them as they see fit.

It's a massive regressive tax and destructive to business and definitely one of the worst ideas to come out of Washington for some time.

It is not, however, a conspiracy to make Al Gore money.

[AZRedhawk44]

You are under the mistaken idea that this is requiring people to purchase "credits" from Al Gore.

Instead, this is a cap program where the government grants a certain number of credits to each business who then may use them or sell them as they see fit.

It's a massive regressive tax and destructive to business and definitely one of the worst ideas to come out of Washington for some time.

It is not, however, a conspiracy to make Al Gore money.

Al will be running the brokerages that allow for businesses to barter their carbon credits.  That is his role in the ponzi scheme.

[ShortTimer]

Penn & Teller on the subject of carbon credits and "Green".  (R for language.)

[Scout26]

Yano...... If Bernie Madoff said he invested his clients' money in Carbon Credits, he'd be walking around free and they'd throw parades for him as a hero of the Green Revolution.......

[longeyes]

Cap and Trade = Control and Punish

Get the axe.  It's still alive.

[tokugawa]

Hmmm... so the Gov. "Gives" these credits to company's, then they can use them-or-sell them? So this is in effect a giving either of a license to operate or money? Sounds like whoever does the "giving" has a "NEW LICENSE TO PRINT MONEY" . This has all the elements necessary to further the "Greatest Theft in History". 

[MechAg94]

I am a bit concerned about this as my company either uses a lot of megawatts at its plants or burns a bunch of natural gas/off gas.  What will this do our costs and profits?  This sucks. 

If they really wanted to help carbon emissions they would be subsidizing solar power and nuke energy heavily.  This is just another tax to raise money for Obama's 3.5 Trillion dollar budget. 

[Monkeyleg]

What's particularly ridiculous about all this is that the goal is to reduce carbon dioxide levels and levels of other "greenhouse gases" to the levels we had in the 1700's.

Sell your cars, buy horses, and make your computers using blacksmithing tools.

[tokugawa]

Wonder if they ever heard f the "mini ice age".....

[HankB]

Wonder if they ever heard f the "mini ice age".....

Oh, that's so 17th century . . . 

[longeyes]

Domestic animals are bad.  They pollute. 

Maybe we can train insects?