Author Topic: 1911 Enlightenment Needed  (Read 10348 times)

TaxPhd

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2007, 08:00:03 AM »
So the inferior gun wins, because more people use it?  Does that really make sense to you?

Seems that in competitions with valuable prizes at stake, competitors would use the best tool for the job, but you don't seem to think so.




Scott
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RJMcElwain

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2007, 09:45:50 AM »
And, of course, all professional shooters shoot what their sponsor manufactures and pays them to shoot, so it's hard to go by that, since most manufacturers make 1911 variations.

And the other side of that is the rest of us shooters tend to be persuaded by what our favorite Pro is shooting. So maybe the whole thing comes down to who has the best PR, and not necessarily the best gun.

Bob
Robert J. McElwain
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"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

TaxPhd

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2007, 10:30:17 AM »
There are some great pro's out there that don't shoot 1911's (Sevigny and Grauffel come to mind), but they are few and far between.  I can imagine some 1911 shooters have gone to other pistols at the insistence of their sponsor's, but I don't know of a top pro that was shooting something other than a 1911, and then switched to a 1911 because of a sponsor's requirements.  Anybody know of one?  The point is, there are pro's that shoot 1911's because of their sponsorship (Rob Leatham with Springfield, for example).  But Rob shot 1911's before his sponsorship, and I bet that is the case with the majority of the rest.  I think is going to be tough to make the case that 1911's win because of pro sponsorship deals or PR.

I still haven't seen a good argument for why clearly superior pistols (Sig, Glock, etc.) don't dominate the shooting sports.




Scott

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RJMcElwain

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2007, 10:46:48 AM »
.......................I still haven't seen a good argument for why clearly superior pistols (Sig, Glock, etc.) don't dominate the shooting sports.

Scott



I wouldn't argue against that. I guess it's a matter of perspective. Like many of us, I think in terms of guns for my purposes. And my purpose is a gun I can stick in my pocket or belt or in a convenient drawer as an insurance policy. For such a purpose, I don't want any manual safety, and that puts me in the SIG, Ruger etc class. If I was shooting the Rob Leatham type stuff, I'd probably want a tricked out 1911 or something of that nature. Given that I'm way passed the time when I could compete against anyone but little old ladies, I probably don't need a 1911. OTOH, I still think I want one, just 'cause. cool

Bob
Robert J. McElwain
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"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

The Rabbi

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2007, 12:54:00 PM »
So the inferior gun wins, because more people use it?  Does that really make sense to you?

Seems that in competitions with valuable prizes at stake, competitors would use the best tool for the job, but you don't seem to think so.




Scott
I dunno.  I've never seen anyone with a 1911 beat Jerry Miculek and his Smith 625.
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Antibubba

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2007, 01:31:53 PM »
As far as competition guns go, the 1911 is so popular in part because there are so many replacement parts and modifications for it; you can make it into just about anything you want.  But $10,000 in parts and labor would spiff up any firearm, methinks.  Is there anyone who likes the 1911 stock out of the box?

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mtnbkr

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2007, 01:50:40 PM »
I dunno.  I've never seen anyone with a 1911 beat Jerry Miculek and his Smith 625.

Moshgirl says "pwned"



Chris

Nightfall

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2007, 02:58:27 PM »
That woman has a terrifying amount of hatred toward testicles... shocked
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mtnbkr

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2007, 03:00:12 PM »
It's photochopped. 

Chris

RJMcElwain

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2007, 04:59:47 PM »
As far as competition guns go, the 1911 is so popular in part because there are so many replacement parts and modifications for it; you can make it into just about anything you want.  But $10,000 in parts and labor would spiff up any firearm, methinks.  Is there anyone who likes the 1911 stock out of the box?



Kinda like buying a Kel-Tec pistol? You know you've got several hours of tinkering before it shoots the way you want it? angel

Bob
Robert J. McElwain
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"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2007, 05:57:36 PM »
Is there anyone who likes the 1911 stock out of the box?
I haven't done a thing to my Dan Wesson 1911, except shoot the dickens out of it and wear down the finish.  It's getting to the point where springs and small parts are wearing out and will need to be replaced.  Maybe I'll think about tweaking the gun then.  Or maybe I won't.  I seem to like it just fine out of the box.

Ron

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2007, 06:30:45 PM »
I have a Springer TRP with no mods and have been shooting a RRA with no mods since last July. Well over twenty thousand (factory) rounds through the two of them.

My guns don't choke, guess I got lucky.

Bigjake

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2007, 06:44:18 PM »
Quote
As far as competition guns go, the 1911 is so popular in part because there are so many replacement parts and modifications for it; you can make it into just about anything you want

ya nailed it. 

The 1911 is the Smallblock Chevy of the gun world.  Oldschool, classy, easily modified. It can be made into whatever the owner wants it to be,  Extreme hotrod down to grandpa's old half ton pickup for puttering here to there.

Art Eatman

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2007, 06:00:56 AM »
"For the intended purpose".  Keep that in mind.

The combined membership of IPSC and IDPA is about 27,000.  Non-members who go beyond box stock are quite probably no more than that.

That means there are hundreds of thousands of people who don't give a rat's patoot about box stock.  They're happy with box stock.  They buy it, shoot it a few times, and then it sits by the bed or under a pillow or maybe gets carried in the car.

So a box stock anything with hardball, for the vast majority of all users, will do just fine.  All this argifying is mostly mental masturbation.

I note that the ads in "Front Sight" are mostly for Colt parts and pieces.  Most of the custom gunsmiths specialize in Colts.  What that tells me is that they are selling into the largest market.  You follow that by what's used the most in competition matches, and that's Colt.

I don't see it as "Colt is better", as a platform.  After all, pull trigger, hammer drop, gun go boom, bullet go to target.  Works for Glock, Sig, Beretta...But, apparently, the majority of competitors have found that they can shoot both faster and more accurately with the customized Colt.

It's probably more about ergonomics than anything else.  For me, the only difference between my Colt  and other pistols is that the 1911 feels better in my hand.  If somebody else likes the feel of a Glock or can shoot better with a Glock, my advice is to buy a Glock.  Or whatever.

From a mechanical or gunsmithing standpoint, there are fewer limits as to what can be done to a 1911 to make it suitable for various specific purposes than most of the others.  And that's certainly true from a cost standpoint.

Hey, guns are a lot like cars:  99% are kept showroom stock.  What hotrodders do has little to do with the majority of all users.

Art

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Gewehr98

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2007, 06:44:33 AM »
Quote
That doesn't speak to the supposed "superiority" of the old rattle trap, only to its popularity among middle aged fat guys.

Glad to be part of that stereotype.   rolleyes
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2007, 07:20:19 AM »
I don't own a 1911, but I like them a lot, because it's the only auto I've shot that instantly fits my hand, and that I shoot well consistently.

Gewehr98

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2007, 07:51:13 AM »
I've met Jerry Miculek.

Quote
I've never seen anyone with a 1911 beat Jerry Miculek and his Smith 625.

He's fat, middle-aged, and can wax your fanny with any gun you hand him.  Trust me.

I worked hard and long to compete at Camp Perry.  I've met G. David Tubb there.  You can safely bet whether you hand the guy an M14/M1A, AR-15, whatever, he's going to run rings around you. 

My mom can touch-type so fast (120wpm) that she jams IBM Selectric typewriters.  Some folks are just really good at what they do.   


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Ron

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2007, 08:00:11 AM »
Quote
Some folks are just really good at what they do.   

Take The Rabbi for example.

He is really good at stirring the pot and yanking our chains. We can't help ourselves! We have to respond, he is a master  laugh

RJMcElwain

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2007, 08:14:04 AM »
"For the intended purpose".  Keep that in mind.

.......So a box stock anything with hardball, for the vast majority of all users, will do just fine.  All this argifying is mostly mental masturbation.........


........I don't see it as "Colt is better", as a platform.  After all, pull trigger, hammer drop, gun go boom, bullet go to target.  Works for Glock, Sig, Beretta...But, apparently, the majority of competitors have found that they can shoot both faster and more accurately with the customized Colt........

..........Hey, guns are a lot like cars:  99% are kept showroom stock.  What hotrodders do has little to do with the majority of all users..........

Art

Art,

You have a way with words. smiley

Bob
Robert J. McElwain
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"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

Mannlicher

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2007, 10:10:23 AM »
Rabbi:  "The 1911 is mostly favored by people easily impressed with tradition.  It has limited capacity, a proven track record of operator induced error, and when reliable isn't accurate and when accurate isn't reliable."

*grin* so I take it Rabbi, that you have never handled or shot a 1911?  Your remarks are almost sophomoric, not to mention wrong.

Manedwolf

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2007, 10:47:05 AM »
One thing I admittedly don't get....What's with the adapters to let someone use 1911 grip panels on an AR?



Familiarity?



Perd Hapley

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2007, 10:50:34 AM »
Quote
What's with the adapters to let someone use 1911 grip panels on an AR?
  Those are supposed to make the AR more like a real gun. 


So, APS is full of 1911 fans?  I knew there was some reason I liked you people.   smiley
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Manedwolf

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2007, 11:15:59 AM »
Quote
What's with the adapters to let someone use 1911 grip panels on an AR?
  Those are supposed to make the AR more like a real gun. 

Uh-oh. Now you've done it... grin

Ezekiel

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2007, 11:17:32 AM »
I'll not knock another's choice in guns, for any reason: they can use -- for whatever personal purpose -- whatever they wish to use.

I prefer a .45, but go with a full-size Glock 21 (it was a duty weapon) because it is stone cold reliable, I have great "combat accuracy" with it, recoil is negligible and it fits my hand: long, skinny fingers with a flat palm.
Zeke

roo_ster

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Re: 1911 Enlightenment Needed
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2007, 12:39:45 PM »
Is there anyone who likes the 1911 stock out of the box?

Up to two months ago, my SW1911 was stock.  It now sports Trijicon tritum sights.
Regards,

roo_ster

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