Healing the rift between police and the public

[Tallpine]

In DC they call it "mission creep".  You as an agency find ways to expand your duties and your budget will follow.  More budget = more power and you as the department head become more powerful.  Police agencies do it, too.  Federal funds and grants and free toys make it even more possible.
Personal Responsibility for crime prevention endangers budgets and power. 

So sadly true 

And there is often no correlation between power/budget and crime - er, the safety of individual citizens.

[MechAg94]

There was a time that there would only be one sheriff or "constable" in an entire district.  People generally looked after themselves and their own property and only called the law to officiate after the culprit was apprehended.

You can say people are "different" now and they sure as heck are which is part of the problem.

Outsourcing personal responsibility never works out.

Yeah, but back then self defense was allowed and expected and given a lot of leeway.  Vigilantism existed and was tolerated.  People were armed.  There were far fewer laws and those laws were applied differently.  IMO, little of that is the fault of police. 

[MechAg94]

Speaking of private police, that is more or less what sheriffs and police originally were.  We didn't have federal cops beyond marshals. 

I really think at the core of it, the police are only following the example of Govt.  getting bigger, more powerful, and more intrusive.  The number and complexity of laws in the last 100 years is huge.  I recall hearing that the first AntiTrust law was one page.  That same law would today be 2000 pages. 

[MechAg94]

The other problem with the "rift" is that often incidents in which the officer(s) acted appropriately are blown out of proportion and the officers are accused of crimes they are not guilty of.  Full video and audio will help that, but not eliminate it.  There will always be those willing to believe that stuff. 

There was an incident in Houston where 3 or 4 cops caught a fleeing thief and struggled with him on the ground.  A short snippet of video was released which made it look like they were beating the hell out of him.  The city fired the cops and tried to prosecute one of them.  The jury found him not guilty.  They still haven't tried to prosecute the others yet.  The thief was black if you didn't know. 

I would refer to the recent incident up near fistful, but that is in another thread. 

[roo_ster]

The other problem with the "rift" is that often incidents in which the officer(s) acted appropriately are blown out of proportion and the officers are accused of crimes they are not guilty of.  Full video and audio will help that, but not eliminate it.  There will always be those willing to believe that stuff. 

There was an incident in Houston where 3 or 4 cops caught a fleeing thief and struggled with him on the ground.  A short snippet of video was released which made it look like they were beating the hell out of him.  The city fired the cops and tried to prosecute one of them.  The jury found him not guilty.  They still haven't tried to prosecute the others yet.  The thief was black if you didn't know. 

I would refer to the recent incident up near fistful, but that is in another thread. 

The usual suspects like to have one of these to keep alive the Narrative.  They keep churning through these as so many suffer Narrative Collapse.

06 — Narrative collapse.     I coined a new phrase this week, one I'm rather pleased with: "narrative collapse."

By "narrative" I mean the set of preconceived ideas into which mainstream media reporters try to squinch news stories, especially stories involving race. So if a white cop shoots a black civilian, that's racist white power acting on crude stereotypes about threatening black males to keep the black man in his place. Or if a black woman claims to have been raped by a college lacrosse team, that's white plantation owners having their way down in the slave quarters — a thing which, by the way, on the historical evidence, didn't actually happen much.

Any time one of these stories comes up, the first mainstream-media news reports all sculpt it to fit the narrative. Then as time goes on and more and more facts come out, it turns out the story doesn't fit the narrative at all. The baby-faced kid with the bag of Skittles turns out to be a violent young punk, while the racist vigilante who shot him turns out to be a Hispanic registered Democrat who'd mentored black youths in his spare time. This is "narrative collapse."

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

With permission I would like to use narrative collapse in the future. It describes the syndrome well


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[roo_ster]

With permission I would like to use narrative collapse in the future. It describes the syndrome well


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not my invention.  I am sure the author would be please to see it go far and wide, though.

[Perd Hapley]

I really think at the core of it, the police are only following the example of Govt.  getting bigger, more powerful, and more intrusive.  The number and complexity of laws in the last 100 years is huge.  I recall hearing that the first AntiTrust law was one page.  That same law would today be 2000 pages. 

Exactly. We have the police we deserve. And we deserve to get it good and hard. On the roadside in New Mexico.

[KD5NRH]

The other problem with the "rift" is that often incidents in which the officer(s) acted appropriately are blown out of proportion and the officers are accused of crimes they are not guilty of.  Full video and audio will help that, but not eliminate it.

Not having convenient "camera failures" or "equipment purchased months ago but not yet up and running" would do a lot more to boost the cops' credibility.  It's the same as the missing emails; when evidence would normally exist in abundance, but doesn't for some reason, those in a position to have been that reason are rightly suspected of all sorts of things.

[Balog]

"In a surprise move, the LAPD has hired Lois Lerner to head up their recordkeeping department."

[Scout26]

"In a surprise move, the LAPD has hired Lois Lerner to head up their recordkeeping department."

 

You sir, win the interwebz of the day !!!

[Scout26]

I guess it goes back to what they always try to tell us:  "If you are not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about."

Seems that cuts both ways.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Just some thoughts. None of it will ever happen.

Not going to happen. Most if not all currently employed in LE would need to be fired, never again be able to be employed in LE. The attitude is so cemented in LE today, it will be very difficult to find anyone wearing a badge that can be trusted. The only reasons we are seeing departments / DAs actually charging LEOs who should be charged, instead of internal discipline (or whatever), is they know they are at a very dangerous tipping point. We need to see this point met.

Second is there is way too much money involved for this to change. War on drugs, asset forfeiture etc...has created a very lucrative system to make money. This has birthed a self sustaining beast. There is no way change will happen on its own or peacefully. This is why we are seeing some in LE who claim to be "good cops" talk about healing. Why?  They know the jig is up and citizens are pissed.  So like politics, talk about the problem, admit the wrong to some extent, talk about changes and solutions......while intending to not do a god damn thing.

Things we could do to start a change:  LET ME BE CLEAR. THE THINGS I SUGGEST WILL NEVER HAPPEN. BUT I CAN DREAM.

1.  Get rid if all but the most basic form of immunity (e.g. If you break a rib doing CPR, no foul). All other instances where a non badge wearing citizen gets arrested and put through the system, LEOs do to.

2. Make it mandatory, no latitude, no discretion, that DA/PA must bring charges against LEOs in instances set about in #1.

3. Police chiefs will be accountable to the people. Chiefs will be elected as sheriffs are.

4.  End the war on drugs. End all military equipment going to civilian LE. End all, ALL, Federal funds to state and local LE. If your agency can't afford to purchase it, sucks to be you.

5.  (YES, flame on). No hiring of former , military personnel that were former SF of any flavor. [this can change later, maybe. But civilian LEs purpose and a SF soldiers purpose are directly opposite.]

6. No more paid leave. If you are suspended, tough *expletive deleted*it. Go flip burgers. If you get absolved of the charges, back pay is yours.

7. No more internal discipline (military style NJP).  Punishment is out of the agencies hands. See #s 1 and 2.

This is merely a start. Much more to a list.

LE is not trusted. They cannot be trusted to police themselves nor offer any solution to healing any rifts. We, the citizens, do not trust you. And you, LE, have earned every inch of that lack of trust.

[RoadKingLarry]

That's  a good start. I'll add my favorite to the list.

In cases of prosecutorial  misconduct such as with holding exculpatory evidence, falsified evidence, perjury and such all LE  and prosecutors, judges, clerks, etc. involved  get the maximum possible sentence that they could have imposed on their intended victim of persecution, up to and including the death penalty.
Imagine Nifong serving half a dozen consecutive 20 year sentences for rape.

[sanglant]

One more LE is subject to all firearms controls. No fa, no 50s in ca, etc. ah and get ready for the smart guns.

[brimic]

BMoZ- I like your ideas.
However, once you realize that the police is the enforcement arm of government, all of their actions make sense.
They are not here to protect 'citizens,' they are in place to keep citizens in line. If they can solve a crime or two after it occurs all the merrier and stronger the illusion.

[Balog]

Overall I'd say that the prosecutors are a bigger problem than cops, its just that they destroy innocent people's lives with boring paperwork behind closed doors instead of choke slamming people to death on camera.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Overall I'd say that the prosecutors are a bigger problem than cops, its just that they destroy innocent people's lives with boring paperwork behind closed doors instead of choke slamming people to death on camera.

Not a bigger problem. All part of the issue that seems to be coming to a head.

[Scout26]

Two weekends ago the Aurora Sportsmen's Club had its annual Zombie(Tactitard)shoot.   This is where the neckbeards who spend their days drooling over the crap in the Cheaper then Dirt Catalog actually come out from Mom's basement find out if all the accessories they've purchased sine last year's events have given them "madskilz".  

The belle of the ball every year is the Kane County Sheriff's Department and the toys they bring:


Because what every hostage/bank robbery/No-knock raid needs is MOAR FIRIN' PORTS !!!



Last year's Fan favorite.  (Because they didn't have the MRAP then)



I guess the Operations/Maintenance money for a MH6 Little Bird is just too much (which is saying something in this state).



Here's one that I know CS&D will approve of !!!!

http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachments/boating-forum/210753d1325002175-new-thp-gun-boat-all-decked-out-joes-tank.jpg

[KD5NRH]

http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachments/boating-forum/210753d1325002175-new-thp-gun-boat-all-decked-out-joes-tank.jpg

Orange tip; clearly it's Airsoft.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Is that the one that got away from joe? Rolled away unattended? Or a new one? For the tuff on crime sheriff with the worst record on crime in the area?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Angel Eyes]

Orange tip; clearly it's Airsoft.

 

[Scout26]

Is that the one that got away from joe? Rolled away unattended? Or a new one? For the tuff on crime sheriff with the worst record on crime in the area?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't know.  Why don't you tell me?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It's a new one. He's got a howitzer now. Plugged barrel and a pair of armored vehicles. It was one of those that escaped and crushed a neighbors car while they burned the house down and roasted the dog while arresting that guy for failure to appear on a traffic charge.
I can't recall if that was the one seagal rode along on


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MechAg94]

The problem with Battle Monkey's list is that police get suspended all the time if there is any hint of misconduct including false accusations. Would you allow local activists to depopulate your police force due to inflexible rules designed for the worst case?

The w/o pay issue is somewhat misleading.  A lot of police don't make a lot money on base pay.  They get up to decent money with overtime.  When they are suspended they get no OT. 

If you are going to put all these rules on police, you had better be prepared to pay higher salaries to get people to take the job.