Author Topic: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?  (Read 657 times)

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,986
SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« on: September 30, 2011, 11:19:14 AM »
http://www.spacex.com/npc-luncheon-elon-musk.php


Color me skeptical.  Watch the MP4 video above.  Then read the article.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.13fe8544a6e090af0506874197e65650.271&show_article=1


I have doubts that either rocket stage would have room inside for sufficient fuel, for both lift and landing operations.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 11:25:42 AM »
how many pounds of fuel is needed to lift each additional pound of fuel?
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,689
Re: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 01:03:00 PM »
Quote
The column-like lower portion would make its way back to Earth and hover back down to land upright, in the same position from which it took off.
That statement from the article makes me think "Scientific snake oil" . . . if the proponents are saying they have enough fuel to carry a payload into orbit AND make a POWERED LANDING, they're going to have to work cut out convincing me.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

wacki

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 361
Re: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 01:34:09 PM »
I have a couple of buddies that work for SpaceX.  I can call them up and ask how much of it is marketing.  But that company does have an all star team so I wouldn't put anything past them.

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 02:16:06 PM »
That statement from the article makes me think "Scientific snake oil" . . . if the proponents are saying they have enough fuel to carry a payload into orbit AND make a POWERED LANDING, they're going to have to work cut out convincing me.

Cool, but I too am skeptical of the implied claims about fuel and payload mass fraction.
I promise not to duck.

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,660
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 02:23:29 PM »
I read this article and watched the video earlier this week.  Although it sounds really cool, count me among the sceptics.  I don't see any way to carry enough fuel aboard those vehicles to accomplish what they claim and still have useful payload capacity left.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,842
Re: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 03:41:54 PM »
Considering the shuttle is 40 year old tech, I would hope we could build some more efficient rockets.  I didn't see payload numbers either.  However, at least they are trying and I hope they will push the envelope a bit further than it sits now.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,986
Re: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2011, 04:32:23 PM »
I read this article and watched the video earlier this week.  Although it sounds really cool, count me among the sceptics.  I don't see any way to carry enough fuel aboard those vehicles to accomplish what they claim and still have useful payload capacity left.

The one point where they MIGHT be able to get a payoff...

Current thought process is as follows:

-We assume disposable launch vehicles priced in the tens of millions of dollars.
-So, we currently pack them with as much payload as we can, and squeeze as much "mission" into the launch as possible.  Payload that might be used for recovery fuel is instead dedicated to missions equipment such as additional satellite mass or staff into orbit.
-Then we launch.

Possibly, they are angling towards:

-We focus on the goal of the launch, part of the goal being safe retrieval of capital investment (rocket).
-We cut payloads dramatically since this is a ferry system.
-We follow-up with multiple launches since each launch only costs fueling and refurbishment ($200k or so) rather than capital equipment and fuel (tens of millions).
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 04:37:01 PM by AZRedhawk44 »
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: SpaceX: Re-usable primary/secondary stages, powered landings?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2011, 09:55:37 PM »
The one point where they MIGHT be able to get a payoff...

Current thought process is as follows:

-We assume disposable launch vehicles priced in the tens of millions of dollars.
-So, we currently pack them with as much payload as we can, and squeeze as much "mission" into the launch as possible.  Payload that might be used for recovery fuel is instead dedicated to missions equipment such as additional satellite mass or staff into orbit.
-Then we launch.

Possibly, they are angling towards:

-We focus on the goal of the launch, part of the goal being safe retrieval of capital investment (rocket).
-We cut payloads dramatically since this is a ferry system.
-We follow-up with multiple launches since each launch only costs fueling and refurbishment ($200k or so) rather than capital equipment and fuel (tens of millions).

I launched it one piece at a time ....

[/johnny cash]   =)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin