Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Balog on April 13, 2015, 06:15:21 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/13/maryland-free-range-kids-taken-into-custody-by-child-protective-services-again/
Maryland is a loathesome state, even by east coast standards.
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I saw that on the morning news, just rubbed me the wrong way.
I'm so glad I grew up in a different time.
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If you shot those CPS folks for attempted kidnapping would that be hunting over bait?
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/13/maryland-free-range-kids-taken-into-custody-by-child-protective-services-again/
Maryland is a loathesome state, even by east coast standards.
https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Document/N083BDE80506011E2B0EA944E5B0D2891?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)
Temporary removal
(c) The representative may remove the child temporarily, without prior approval by the juvenile court, if the representative believes that the child is in serious, immediate danger.
1 - Don't see where the cops have any authority to take custody of the kids unless they are committing some crime.
2 - Strangly, "serious, immediate danger" from or of what is not defined.
Compare that to http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+63.2-1517
§ 63.2-1517. Authority to take child into custody.
A. A physician or child-protective services worker of a local department or law-enforcement official investigating a report or complaint of abuse and neglect may take a child into custody for up to 72 hours without prior approval of parents or guardians provided:
1. The circumstances of the child are such that continuing in his place of residence or in the care or custody of the parent, guardian, custodian or other person responsible for the child's care, presents an imminent danger to the child's life or health to the extent that severe or irremediable injury would be likely to result or if evidence of abuse is perishable or subject to deterioration before a hearing can be held;
2. A court order is not immediately obtainable;
3. The court has set up procedures for placing such children;
4. Following taking the child into custody, the parents or guardians are notified as soon as practicable. Every effort shall be made to provide such notice in person;
5. A report is made to the local department; and
6. The court is notified and the person or agency taking custody of such child obtains, as soon as possible, but in no event later than 72 hours, an emergency removal order pursuant to § 16.1-251; however, if a preliminary removal order is issued after a hearing held in accordance with § 16.1-252 within 72 hours of the removal of the child, an emergency removal order shall not be necessary. Any person or agency petitioning for an emergency removal order after four hours have elapsed following taking custody of the child shall state the reasons therefor pursuant to § 16.1-251.
Checks and balances.
stay safe.
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They took me to set up a case. The cps folks are trying to show they are bad parents if they don't call cops right away.
Cps has a lot invested in not looking stupid /stupider
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Checks and balances.
If you say so. Loop holes trucks are driven through.
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They took me to set up a case. The cps folks are trying to show they are bad parents if they don't call cops right away.
Cps has a lot invested in not looking stupid /stupider
Why did I immediately think of "The Ransom of Red Chief"?
stay safe.
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They took me to set up a case. The cps folks are trying to show they are bad parents if they don't call cops right away.
Cps has a lot invested in not looking stupid /stupider
That last part isn't working. Just the idea that they are even going after these kids makes them look stupid. Apparently, all is well in that area and there is no real abuse going on at all so this is all they have to look at.
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My other question is what were the kids doing that warranted someone to call CPS? Is it some busybody?
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My other question is what were the kids doing that warranted someone to call CPS? Is it some busybody?
It's apparently a wealthy neighborhood in MD that uses the local PD to enforce social norms, and this family is outside the norm for the community of helicopter parents. Sort of like Medina here in WA and the cops zero tolerance policy on DWP.
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I wonder what laws were broken to take the kids into custody? Kidnapping? False Arrest? (yeah, yeah, "qualified immunity") I really don't see where QI would cover it.
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I wonder what laws were broken to take the kids into custody? Kidnapping? False Arrest? (yeah, yeah, "qualified immunity") I really don't see where QI would cover it.
Community policing. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/commp.pdf
It's what lets the cops kick in your door because some busybody at work forgot you took three days off and got concerned that you might have fallen and not been able to get to a phone.
Or your bookie who's looking for you pretends to be some relative that has not heard from you and is worried you might be dead and the cats are eating your face.
Or some neighborhood biddy who freaks over what could happen to those poor, sweet chilren - without stopping to consider that it could happen to them even with their parents right there.
stay safe.
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Just ... Wow!
By the time I was ten, I was rambling a lot farther from home than 600 yards. The neighbors couldn't have turned me in, though (not that they would have), because I was mostly wandering around in the woods either behind the house or across the street. Heck, I followed an old woods road I found once and ended up two towns away. I was home in time for dinner so it was just business as usual.
The problem today is that the nanny state blissninnies want to take all the fun out of being a kid.
Oh, and when I was out wandering in the woods by the age of ten, I was carrying a fixed-blade hunting knife with about a 6- or 7-inch blade. And it was sharp, because my grandfather didn't approve of knives that weren't sharp enough to shave with. The SJWs' heads would have exploded over the idea that the entire family considered it perfectly normal and healthy for a ten-year old to be walking around the world with a "huge" knife on his belt on a daily basis.
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What no gun?
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Balog described the neighborhood well. Its funny though that part of moco is like a layer cake.
The kids were probably 3/4 to a mile from home
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I spend much of my work time in Juvi Court, and am carrying a CPS docket now. When I get to a real keyboard tomorrow, I'll have a lot to say about this...
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I've never met a CPS/DHS* type person that I felt was truly sane.
*Oklahoma is Dept. of Human Services (predates Homeland Security)
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It's apparently a wealthy neighborhood in MD that uses the local PD to enforce social norms, and this family is outside the norm for the community of helicopter parents. Sort of like Medina here in WA and the cops zero tolerance policy on DWP.
DWP? ???
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DWP? ???
Medina is an extremely, extremely wealthy neighborhood in Bellevue where Bill Gates has (one of) his houses. The local PD has a zero tolerance policy towards Driving While Poor in that area. Almost zero real crime, and what exists is committed by heirs and heiresses whose billionaire parents are "extremely grateful for your discretion in this matter officer." But roll through there looking like you're in the wrong tax bracket (and aren't there to mow the lawns or something) and you won't get a mile before Officer Friendly pulls you over for [insert BS reason here].
Cops as tools of social conformity, now available to everyone with enough money to be on a first name basis with whatever local .gov official controls the funding of the local PD.
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there are always going to be extreme cases, used to push an agenda. How about the mom that dangled her two year old over the Cheetah cage? Should CPS get involved there?
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there are always going to be extreme cases, used to push an agenda. How about the mom that dangled her two year old over the Cheetah cage? Should CPS get involved there?
That should get their attention a lot more than kids playing a little distance from home.
There was case not too long ago of a woman who was fighting CPS. He kids were together at a neighborhood park just down the street and could be seen from our front door.
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Free Range
S'posed to be healthier for chickens- didn't hurt us.
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I have a very good friend that works for DHS here in Oklahoma and talking with her she said two of the biggest problems is that the State won't back them 99% of the time and that 99% of the time the good case workers get so burnt out with the substandard pay and BS they have to put up with they move on to better things.
It is a job just as teaching if you're good at it you're still not doing it for the money.
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/13/maryland-free-range-kids-taken-into-custody-by-child-protective-services-again/
Maryland is a loathesome state, even by east coast standards.
All those involved in this who get their pay from the taxpayers have also earned some serious corporal punishment, pour encourager les autres. It seems that there are zero legal methods available to the citizenry to modify the behavior of the bureaucritters, so that leaves only extra-legal methods.
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Just ... Wow!
By the time I was ten, I was rambling a lot farther from home than 600 yards. The neighbors couldn't have turned me in, though (not that they would have), because I was mostly wandering around in the woods either behind the house or across the street. Heck, I followed an old woods road I found once and ended up two towns away. I was home in time for dinner so it was just business as usual.
I grew up in Chicago, and by age 10 I was also rambling quite a bit farther from home than 600 yards.
I'm here to write this, so I survived just fine.
According to one news story, the cops enticed the kids into the back of a squad car by offering them a ride home - I think from now on, those kids will run like heck if they're ever approached by a cop.
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"Home leave" for a few months, staying with relatives in Chicago before the family hit the road again. I was 9 or 10 and had almost no idea of what/where was safe in the city.
Rode my cousin's bicycle from 100th & Yates on the Southside up to Jackson Park where I picked up the Outer Drive and continued on to the Museum of Science and Industry. Left the bike in the cloak room (got charged 10 cents - double the posted rate for coats/jackets or bags) and managed not to get abducted while roaming about. (Traveling to various & sundry cities in Europe had taught me street smarts which apply pretty much wherever you are.) Rode "home" via Stoney Grove Ave. (now MLK, Jr. Blvd.) and did not get shot, beaten or worse.
Except for wanting to hear about my route "home" neither my parents nor my aunt & uncle though much of what I had done. Can you imagine the hissy fits that would have been had if a 9-year old did that today?
stay safe.
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Parents of free-range kids lawyer up and file lawuit.
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Parents-of-Free-Range-Kids-to-File-Lawsuit-299721601.html
Also more specific info about this incident:
Matthew Dowd, an attorney with the Wiley Rein law firm, said in a release Tuesday that 10-year-old Rafi Meitiv and his 6-year-old sister, Dvora, were held in a police car for almost three hours, went more than six hours without being fed, and weren't returned to their parents until nearly midnight.
The suit stems from an incident Sunday, the second time police got involved with Danielle and Alexander Meitiv and their kids.
In the latest incident, a man called 911 to report two unaccompanied children at Ellsworth Park in Silver Spring around 5 p.m. Sunday. The man said he was walking his dog when the children asked to pet it. He said their clothes were dirty and they were walking around alone for about 20 minutes.
Dear sweet shivering Shiva - the little urchins' clothes were "dirty"! What kind of parent lets their childen play in anything less than a velvet Little Lord Fontleroy costume?
stay safe.
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I wandered parts of monkey county freely as a 12 year old, frequently as an older teen. To my parent's dismay I came back.
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The stories I could tell if I could remember them of all my (miss)adventures at that age. >:D :old:
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I wandered parts of monkey county freely as a 12 year old, frequently as an older teen. To my parent's dismay I came back.
I think my parents were more concerned what my brothers and I would do to a danger stranger, than the other way around.
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What no gun?
We had BB/air guns. We also used to shoot each other with them. There was a 40 acre tree nursery and a several hundred acre diary farm behind our neighborhood. Baseball/football in the pastures when not filled with cows, dirt bikes (pedal kind) and BB-gun wars in the nursery.
F'ing up and getting your ass beat by both someone else's parents and then your own parents latter. Priceless...
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Funny that the state doesn't seem to care if you kill them prior to birth. ???
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We had BB/air guns. We also used to shoot each other with them. There was a 40 acre tree nursery and diary farm behind our neighborhood. Baseball/football in the pastures when not filled with cows, dirt bikes (pedal kind) and BB-gun wars in the nursery.
F'ing up and getting your ass beat by both someone else's parents and then your own parents latter. Priceless...
Ah yes, BB gun wars in the woods. No shooting above the shoulders, anything else goes. Learned a bit about sneaking around.
Four of us used to wander the fields & woods; youngest brother (~10yr) with a .410, neighbor (~12) & middle bro (~13) with 20ga and me (old man @ ~14) with a 16ga. Bunnies, birds, gophers, squirrels etc. - we kept their numbers down.
Good times.
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Funny that the state doesn't seem to care if you kill them prior to birth. ???
More to the point, the state of MD doesn't care if the feral inner city chirren are wandering miles from home selling crack and hunting polar bears.
This case has zero to do with any possible danger to children, and everything to do with using the force of .gov to punish people who are not like you but have the temerity to live in your neighborhood.
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there are always going to be extreme cases, used to push an agenda. How about the mom that dangled her two year old over the Cheetah cage? Should CPS get involved there?
So, just to be clear, you consider children playing a few hundred yards from their home to be an "extreme case" on par with a mother suspending her toddler over a {potentially fatal drop} into a cage full of {potentially lethal} animals? Am I reading this correctly?
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The man said he was walking his dog when the children asked to pet it. He said their clothes were dirty and they were walking around alone for about 20 minutes.
TWENTY MINUTES!
The times, they are a changin'. My bother, my cousin and I would be gone for hours at a time -- and we didn't have cell phones in those days. As long as we were back by dinner time -- no harm, no foul.
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I wandered parts of monkey county freely as a 12 year old, frequently as an older teen. To my parent's dismay I came back.
The only time my parents got dismayed with my free-ranging was the time both the fire department and police department had to get involved with one of my activities. >:D
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I remember the days when my summer curfew was when the street lights came on.
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I remember the days when my summer curfew was when the street lights came on.
That is the standard I gave my kids last summer. "I better see you home soon after the street lights come on." They already have more than enough structured activities. Let. Them. Go. Outside. And. Play.
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I remember the days when my summer curfew was when the street lights came on.
Me too, and I grew up in Alaska. =D
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We didn't have street lights, but my Dad was okay as long as we were close enough we could hear him yelling for us. Any further and we had to tell them where we were going.
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I used to prosecute CPS cases here in Ohio. CPS cases are a part of my docket these days. I've seen things that still break my heart to think about to this day. I've attended a couple of autopsies related to this work, including a little girl whose face will never fade from my mind, and the little gold earrings she was wearing. And, I've also said no to CPS. Told them I would not file for a removal order in cases that didn't warrant it. And I've denied some requests since I took the bench.
I don't know Maryland law. But, here in Ohio, CPS cannot take possession of a child (custody is a legal term I'm avoiding on purpose) without a specific court order authorizing that action. CPS does not have authority to simply take a child. Interestingly enough, there is an antiquated provision of Ohio law which authorizes an LEO to take possession of a child upon reasonable belief that the child is in imminent risk of harm, and deliver the child to juvenile court or the CPS agency. So, I guess in theory this could have happened here as it did in the OP. That said, the Court would still need to issue an order to keep the child in the custody of CPS once the police handed off. Unless the children were returned, as happened in the OP.
Now, with all of this said, I have written an order for unsupervised children out on their own. Big difference being their age of the kids (younger than six) and other factors (like a toddler walking down the street naked, a four year old out in the snow barefoot without a coat, etc.)
CPS is not the evil entity many people think they are. Right now, our stats from 2014 show that 80% of the CPS cases we had involved severe substance abuse by parents, 40% involved domestic violence, 35% involved physical abuse, 10% involved sexual abuse. None involved kids playing down the street from home. Cases like the OP get lots of attention, and everyone yells and screams about how awful CPS is, and we get legislators sticking their noses into court to see how we can reign in these people who are out destroying families for no good reason, only to have them see that (1) there's more to the story than they thought, or (2) the system actually worked as it should, and if there was no reason for CPS to be involved, the court sent the kids home.
Is this case bad. Yes. Are there others like it. Sure. Are these a sign of a broken system that needs fixed and/or removed. No. Not yet. And not if the guys and gals wearing the robes keep doing their jobs right.
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Oh, and for what it's worth, my kids are allowed to play in our cul de sac even after the street lights turn on. Kick the can is more fun in the dark.
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Is this case bad. Yes. Are there others like it. Sure. Are these a sign of a broken system that needs fixed and/or removed. No. Not yet. And not if the guys and gals wearing the robes keep doing their jobs right.
That is the key take away in all of this. The problem is you don't hear about the times those that wear the robes have slapped down CPS/DHS/or whatever your state calls it. Too many times it is swept under the rug as a personnel issue. I call BS.
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Someone PLEASE explain this one to me:
Then, in March, Child Protective Services found the parents were guilty of "unsubstantiated" child neglect.
How can you be found guilty of an unsubstantiated crime?
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Someone PLEASE explain this one to me:
How can you be found guilty of an unsubstantiated crime?
Chalk that up to bad journalism. CPS cant charge or convict anyone of a crime. They investigate allegations of abuse/neglect/dependency. The results of their investigations are classified as:
Unsubstantiated, meaning insufficient evidence to proceed with any case
Indicated, meaning there is some supporting evidence to support the allegations, but insufficient to initiate a case. This is often where you see voluntary services and safety plans. No formal court involvement.
Substantiated, meaning enough evidence to support a court case, and maybe criminal charges.
Looks like the reporter got it messed up.
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Thanks for explaining Chris. Was suddenly seeing someone found guilty of unsubstantiated murder, and my brain went into vaporlock
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and my brain went into vaporlock
So, typical day for you.
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Don;t you have a treestand to fall out of or something?
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The worst cases I have heard about were cases where it was the judge that was creating the problem, not necessarily CPS. Usually involving a parent who can't afford to fight the case properly.
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Hell, i spent a great deal of my youth wandering the desert near Ridgecrest, miles from home, with a canteen and a sac lunch.
I've also seen CPS overreach, but that was Kalifornistan. I was playing sand lot baseball with some friends and took a fastball to the face. Broke my cheekbone and nose, and swelled my eye shut. Lady across the street called CPS telling them my mother had done it. No matter what I or my friends said, they didn't want to believe that I had *gasp* gotten hurt playing. To them, it HAD to be abuse.
Anyways, the abuse in my household was purely psychological. LOL
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Hell, i spent a great deal of my youth wandering the desert near Ridgecrest, miles from home, with a canteen and a sac lunch.
I've also seen CPS overreach, but that was Kalifornistan. I was playing sand lot baseball with some friends and took a fastball to the face. Broke my cheekbone and nose, and swelled my eye shut. Lady across the street called CPS telling them my mother had done it. No matter what I or my friends said, they didn't want to believe that I had *gasp* gotten hurt playing. To them, it HAD to be abuse.
Anyways, the abuse in my household was purely psychological. LOL
I need to see if I can find the old story about the folks who ran the milsurp business in CA. There were a handful of tracers that got left in some of the surplus they bought, which the state got wind of somehow. CPS took their kids, dragged all their inventory out of the warehouse and left it exposed to the elements, and IIRC sent them to prison for a pretty long time.