Author Topic: A Gift of a Gaffe  (Read 9809 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2012, 08:13:44 AM »
Does it seem to anyone else that Akin's back-pedaling on his statements is being ignored, so that ax-grinders can treat them as a policy position he's staked out and still stands by?

Then there are the people who don't seem to know what he actually said, so they are free to embellish.

22,000 women become pregnant every year from rape. Akin would rather their lives be ruined than that they have an abortion. He justifies this abysmal be claiming that these women (and children) really asked for it.

Not true, actually. Here is a transcript of the offensive comments, as reported in a New York Times article.

Quote
It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare,” Mr. Akin said of pregnancies from rape. “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something: I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be of the rapist, and not attacking the child.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/20/us/politics/todd-akin-provokes-ire-with-legitimate-rape-comment.html
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 10:42:42 AM by fistful »
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MechAg94

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2012, 11:46:04 AM »
The only way I can read this as a mis-statement is if he meant actual, you know, *rape* as opposed to, "omg I just slept with you and now I regret it and clearly YOU RAPED ME!" or "OMG we had sex and now I'm pregnant and I must have been raped!" or just a complete fabrication, ala the Duke Lacrosse team.  If *that* is what he meant as a "legitimate rape" then I'll forgive him the misstatement.  Because yeah, it was a stupid way to phrase things, but I understand his meaning.  I don't agree with his logic/biology regarding "shutting that whole thing down".
I don't know why anyone should assume he meant anything else unless they are thinking solely with emotions or assuming the absolute worst. 

As for the "shutting down the pregnancy" thing, if he can't figure out how to back away from that or admit he was mistaken, he is too stupid to win anyway.
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MechAg94

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2012, 11:47:11 AM »
fistfull, since you are closer to this than I am, does it look like he is or will lose ground to the Democrat or do the voters there not care about it?  I am sure there will be polling out soon.
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makattak

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2012, 12:07:01 PM »
No there is not one scintilla of evidence that this is true. There are some people with absolutely no scientific credibility who make the claim, but they are either deliberately lying or complete fools.

22,000 women become pregnant every year from rape. Akin would rather their lives be ruined than that they have an abortion. He justifies this abysmal be claiming that these women (and children) really asked for it.

The best description for people who hold these views is evil.

The last year I can find stats for tells me that there were 84000 in the US in 2010.

I'm amazed that one out of four rapes results in a pregnancy. Can you tell me the source of that statistic?
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TommyGunn

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2012, 12:09:31 PM »
The last year I can find stats for tells me that there were 84000 in the US in 2010.

I'm amazed that one out of four rapes results in a pregnancy. Can you tell me the source of that statistic?
???

I've heard 5% of rapes result in pregnancy.  Seems a more "believable" number, to me.......atleast.
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Nick1911

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2012, 12:14:57 PM »
No there is not one scintilla of evidence that this is true. There are some people with absolutely no scientific credibility who make the claim, but they are either deliberately lying or complete fools.

Indeed.  I'd be very interested to see a (actually, several) studies preformed under reasonably controlled conditions that shows his statement to be true in a statistically significant quantity.  Near as I can find, it's touted by the same kind of nuts who think homeopathy works, vaccinations are bad, aspartame causes cancer, GMO foods are evil or that astrology actually means anything.  In general, people who hold positions based on anecdotes and aren't supported by any scientific evidence.   I do not want that kind of person anywhere near a position where they can influence public policy.  They are dangerous and should be treated as such.

Edited for spelling.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 12:20:23 PM by Nick1911 »

RevDisk

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #56 on: August 22, 2012, 12:27:23 PM »

Interesting thoughts.

http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/dear-representative-todd-akin-i-got-pregnant-from-rape#.UDPq9qsgJCU.twitter

http://georgetownlawjournal.org/files/pdf/98-3/Prewitt.PDF

Couple interesting points I did not know previously. Apparently, "in the vast majority of states, a rapist has the same custody and visitation rights to a child born through his crime as other fathers enjoy." If the Republicans wanted to do something humanitarian to partially regain their stature, they could press for laws to challenge this. I don't think I've ever sworn so much reading a law journal article. 


Also, he finally did apologize in an ad on Tuesday.

"Rape is an evil act; I used the wrong words in the wrong way. And for that, I apologize. As the father of two daughters, I want tough justice for predators, have a compassionate heart for the victims of sexual assault, and I pray for them. Fact is, rape could lead to pregnancy; the truth is rape has many victims. The mistake I made was in the words I said, not in the heart I hold. I ask for your forgiveness."
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Jamie B

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2012, 12:56:25 PM »
According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report there were 84,767 forcible rapes reported in 2010.
US population was 308,745,538, giving an effective rate of 0.03%.
I have heard that 10% of rapes are actually reported, but no supporting data for this.
No idea about pregnancy or abortions resulting from rape.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls
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Scout26

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2012, 01:21:59 PM »
At least he wasn't advocating putting rape victims in chains.
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Nick1911

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2012, 02:14:12 PM »
At least he wasn't advocating putting rape victims in chains.

The proper response to Akin is not to legitimize his position by pointing out that things Biden (of any of the "opposition") have said.  The proper response is to condemn both of them for their flawed viewpoints.  "At least he's not as bad as the other guy!" implies that regardless of his transgressions, as long as it's slightly less evil and immoral then someone else in some other position that happens to be affiliated with the other party, he deserves my vote.  That's a false dichotomy.  Akin isn't running against Biden, he's running against McCaskill – who as far as I know hasn't said anything about black people and chains.  Compare politicians, not party affiliation.  A split ticket does not imply cognitive dissonance.

Jamie B

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2012, 04:17:13 PM »
I have not made any judgement along party lines.

Ignorance stands on it's own for me.

I have not been hypersensitive about his comments affecting a particular group, either.

I am concerned that someone this stupid is incapable of making intelligent decisions about complex issues due to a severe lack of basic common sense.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2012, 06:26:36 PM »
The proper response to Akin is not to legitimize his position by pointing out that things Biden (of any of the "opposition") have said.  The proper response is to condemn both of them for their flawed viewpoints.  "At least he's not as bad as the other guy!" implies that regardless of his transgressions, as long as it's slightly less evil and immoral then someone else in some other position that happens to be affiliated with the other party, he deserves my vote.  That's a false dichotomy.  Akin isn't running against Biden, he's running against McCaskill – who as far as I know hasn't said anything about black people and chains. 


But she does have a 100% rating from NARAL, and an F from the NRA, in addition to being an Obamacare stalwart. So the choice is between someone who said something dumb, and then took it back, versus someone with a clear record of opposing human rights. Akin, mind you, has a record of several years of generally voting on the enlightened, pro-human-rights side of politics. (Yes, generally - he ain't perfect.)

Akin may be a flawed candidate now, but let's not pretend McCaskill is anywhere near as good on the issues as Akin has proven himself to be in the past.
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Nick1911

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2012, 06:46:30 PM »

But she does have a 100% rating from NARAL, and an F from the NRA, in addition to being an Obamacare stalwart. So the choice is between someone who said something dumb, and then took it back, versus someone with a clear record of opposing human rights. Akin, mind you, has a record of several years of generally voting on the enlightened, pro-human-rights side of politics. (Yes, generally - he ain't perfect.)

Akin may be a flawed candidate now, but let's not pretend McCaskill is anywhere near as good on the issues as Akin has proven himself to be in the past.

My argument was really against the non-sequitur scout26 proposed; "Because biden sucks more, vote for akin."

Your point may or may not be true.  I don't know, I don't follow MO politics since I left the state.  At least personally, a 100% NARAL rating is a non-issue to me; and on the latter, the only relevent votes I found were:
    Voted NO on allowing firearms in checked baggage on Amtrak trains. (Apr 2009)
    Voted YES on prohibiting foreign & UN aid that restricts US gun ownership. (Sep 2007)

Of course it's a moot point, because I left the state; and with it my ability of vote for it's leaders.  Vote as you see fit.  =)  At least personally, I avoid voting for people that hold viewpoints that are demonstrably proven incorrect.

Perd Hapley

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2012, 07:07:03 PM »
My argument was really against the non-sequitur scout26 proposed; "Because biden sucks more, vote for akin."

I know, but you were saying to compare Akin to the Democrat in the race. So I did.

I think Scout 26 was just comparing the attention this gaffe has gotten, versus Biden's, so I wouldn't call it a non sequitur.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2012, 10:24:06 PM »
Ya know, I'm reading All Quiet on the Western Front right now, and I found this passage in the first chapter about how fingernails and hair keep growing after one dies.

I guess Erich was a real evil moron, to believe something like that.
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ArfinGreebly

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #65 on: August 22, 2012, 11:31:04 PM »

Y'all may not be aware of it, not being ancient and stuff, but back in the sixties and seventies part of nurses' training included a little blurb about the effects of shock -- as a result of rape -- and how that tended to impede conception.

Yes, I got to hear that from a nurse.

She was miffed that anyone would be so out of touch regarding medical theory, but allowed as how there are some people who might be altogether opposed to abortion who would grab hold of such an obsolete trinket of "wisdom" and parrot it around the "echo chamber" of like-minded people with whom they almost exclusively associate.

And, if our politician tends to hang out with people of similar orientation, it's possible that a certain amount of echo-chamber contamination would lead to such a pronouncement.


Oddly, politicians who hang out in other echo chambers and who pontificate on even more scientifically questionable theories commonly get a pass.

If it were my ballot, and I had to choose between this gent and his moonbat opponent, I wouldn't even have to give it a second thought.  At stake, among other things, is the senate majority.  If I can vote in a guy with a flawed understanding of biology and displace a megalomaniac with a totally distorted sense of economics, finance, and the role of government, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

But that's just me.  I could be wrong.
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Scout26

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #66 on: August 22, 2012, 11:37:49 PM »
What I meant was don't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good".

Is Akin the perfect candidate.  No. The only person that I know of that shares my exact same beliefs, values, and ideals is...me.

Since I'm not running for any office, I have to find the person that most closely fits with what I hold dear.  And most times, that person has some ideas or beliefs (or voting record) that aren't exactly like mine.

And occasionally, like me, have said some pretty stupid things. In Public.  In front of a large group.  :facepalm:


For those that have never been on a campaign, it sucks the life out of you.

A few years back I was a Precinct Committeeman.  As such my job was to help educate my neighbors about the candidates, get out the vote, and help with the campaigns.    I helped for one "weekend".   Wednesday night was three events*.  Thursday night was another three.  Friday was five. On Saturday there were eight events we went to and we were out until past midnight.  Sunday was get up at ungodly O'clock in the morning (4am if IIRC), to go hit the Sunday morning talk shows.  The first being at 5am on the local college radio station for all two of their insomniac listeners.  And our guy was as bright and cheerful as if he gotten 8 hours of sleep after napping most of the previous day.  I was very impressed as I fought to stay awake.  (We did one other Radio show, and a TV show that morning, then more events.)

So Akin said something stupid. Given that he's been running awhile, and he's apologized, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.   None of us are perfect, and the demands of a campaign, where everything is scrutinized, (we had "an operative" from the other candidate follow our guy around with a video camera,taping every word, so that if and when he said something dumb, they would leap on it and make a TV ad out of it), make it even harder.  

The point being what I said earlier, that we on the right don't pick up or wounded from the battlefield.    A leftist says something stupid and they go out, circle the wagons around their guys and redouble their efforts to get him/her elected.   We, on the other hand, go out and shoot our wounded.   Why should he withdrawal?  Do we not forgive?  Or are we far to ready to pick up rocks and start throwing them at our own glass house?

Is it better to have an Obama acolyte in the Senate where it could be enough to keep "Do Nothing" Harry Reid as Majority Leader and that body in the hands of the D's?  Will this country be better having Claire McCaskill as Missouri's Senator?  Yes Akin is flawed.  We all are.  But come on, we can do better with Akin there than her.  

Is that what your saying?  Even though he's probably at around 75% or greater in shared beliefs, values and ideals, just because he said one dumb thing, I should vote for the other person with whom I share 10% or less of the same beliefs, values, and ideals ?


That's even dumber then what Akin said.



*Event- any meeting or get together by any group that would let our candidate talk and/or give him money.   He'd give his canned 3, 5 or 10 minute stump speech, then shake hands, listen to their complaints (my job being to listen, empathize and take notes of what they wanted), and then off to next event.
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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Put our backs to the north wind.
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Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Perd Hapley

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2012, 12:20:02 AM »
If I can vote in a guy with a flawed understanding of biology and displace a megalomaniac with a totally distorted sense of economics, finance, and the role of government, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

This. Especially since Akin tends to be of the sort that oppose government overreach into the medical profession, anyway. Especially since his views on abortion aren't going to change (and shouldn't change) regardless of how many rape victims conceive.


I am concerned that someone this stupid is incapable of making intelligent decisions about complex issues due to a severe lack of basic common sense.

And yet, his record indicates that he tends to choose wisely, at least on most issues.

Does anybody else remember there being a guy on this board that believed that women intentionally miscarry their children, when they don't feel good about the circumstances of the pregnancy? That was a part of his pro-abortion spiel; the idea that if abortion were outlawed, women would have to be prevented from intentional miscarriage. And since any post-pubescent female could be pregnant at any time, all women must be treated as prisoners and subject to the most invasive scrutiny and supervision at all times. The guy may have been a kook, but he also (ostensibly) held one or more degrees in a scientific discipline, and worked in that field. He said that his ideas about miscarriage were all backed up by some very convincing research, in some book he had read. Some smart people have funny ideas.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2012, 04:31:11 AM »
Somebody help me on this.

Are feeding him to the wolves for the "legitimate rape" comment wherein he makes the unforgivable sin and implies that sometimes women might lie about rape. Or, the part where he ignorantly parrots a low level urban myth?

Ignorance can be corrected but you can't fix stupid.
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seeker_two

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2012, 05:49:37 AM »
I don't think that his statement upsets me. And I respect that he made a legitimate apology.

What upsets me the most about this is that, after the intense PR damage was done, he chose to stay in the race instead of stepping aside for a candidate without the baggage who would have a better chance of winning. That was a slap in the face to his constituency and his party....and may well guarantee an Obama sycophant gets that seat. I hope the GOP sues to have him removed from the ballot or to prohibit him from campaigning as a Republican....maybe even sue to recover the campaign money they spent on him. And I hope the GOP pushes a write-in candidate as an alternative. I also hope that, if on the outside chance he wins, the GOP Senate relegates him to a "shut up & vote how we tell you or else" position with no leadership position.

Make stupid hurt....
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Scout26

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2012, 01:20:22 PM »
I don't think that his statement upsets me. And I respect that he made a legitimate apology.

What upsets me the most about this is that, after the intense PR damage was done, he chose to stay in the race instead of stepping aside for a candidate without the baggage who would have a better chance of winning. That was a slap in the face to his constituency and his party....and may well guarantee an Obama sycophant gets that seat. I hope the GOP sues to have him removed from the ballot or to prohibit him from campaigning as a Republican....maybe even sue to recover the campaign money they spent on him. And I hope the GOP pushes a write-in candidate as an alternative. I also hope that, if on the outside chance he wins, the GOP Senate relegates him to a "shut up & vote how we tell you or else" position with no leadership position.

Make stupid hurt....


Really?!?!  Seriously ?!?!  One misstatement and let's chop off his head?   A write-in/alternate candidate has about a 0% chance of winning.  (See Peter Fitzgerald- Incumbent Senator who got NO support from the Illinos GOP, Jack Ryan - who had his sealed Divorce Records unsealed, Alan Keyes who took Ryan's place on the ballot and the next thing you know we have Senator Obama become president.)

He's apologized.  Let's pick-up our wounded and redouble our efforts to take the senate.

Someone tell my why having Claire McCaskill would be a better choice then Akin?
 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

roo_ster

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2012, 01:54:33 PM »
According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report there were 84,767 forcible rapes reported in 2010.
US population was 308,745,538, giving an effective rate of 0.03%.
I have heard that 10% of rapes are actually reported, but no supporting data for this.
No idea about pregnancy or abortions resulting from rape.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

Cop buddy of mine desperately wanted to get out of sex crimes because of the high rate of bogus cases...that ran to nearly 50% of reported cases.  Then there were those sex crimes against minors...and the false accusation rate there.   A steady diet of evil adult rapists, evil false accusing adults, evil people raping kids, and evil kids falsely accusing others was sorta getting him down.



As for Rep. Stumbletongue, meh.  I am not going to toss a candidate overboard for one faux pas.  Wake me up if he claims Guam is going to tip over from too many American troops.
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Strings

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2012, 03:50:06 PM »
Want to know the worse prat of that, Roo?

A huge majority of rapes DOES go unreported, in large part because the victims don't want to be lumped in with the false accusers...
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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2012, 09:12:09 PM »
Really?!?!  Seriously ?!?!  One misstatement and let's chop off his head?   A write-in/alternate candidate has about a 0% chance of winning.  (See Peter Fitzgerald- Incumbent Senator who got NO support from the Illinos GOP, Jack Ryan - who had his sealed Divorce Records unsealed, Alan Keyes who took Ryan's place on the ballot and the next thing you know we have Senator Obama become president.)

He's apologized.  Let's pick-up our wounded and redouble our efforts to take the senate.

Someone tell my why having Claire McCaskill would be a better choice then Akin?
 

Because he said "legitimate rape!" ZOMG!!!!!!
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Perd Hapley

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Re: A Gift of a Gaffe
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2012, 09:22:41 PM »
Really?!?!  Seriously ?!?!  One misstatement and let's chop off his head?   A write-in/alternate candidate has about a 0% chance of winning.  (See Peter Fitzgerald- Incumbent Senator who got NO support from the Illinos GOP, Jack Ryan - who had his sealed Divorce Records unsealed, Alan Keyes who took Ryan's place on the ballot and the next thing you know we have Senator Obama become president.)

He's apologized.  Let's pick-up our wounded and redouble our efforts to take the senate.

Someone tell my why having Claire McCaskill would be a better choice then Akin?
 


You may be right, but I don't think Sarah Steelman is an Alan Keyes. She could pull it off. Brunner? Maybe. I'm pretty sure this was his first go, so he hasn't really proven himself.
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