Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: vaskidmark on January 28, 2015, 09:19:55 AM
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I know my math is not that good, but just how do you begin to think you can pull this off?
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/video-parachute-saves-cirrus-sr22-pilot-as-he-ditches-off-408340/
Another Cirrus SR22 pilot looks to have been saved by the aircraft’s parachute when he ran out of fuel 220nm (400km) from Hawaii.
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The pilot, who had left California for Lahaina on the island of Maui on 25 January, contacted the authorities at 12:30 local time to say he had 3h of fuel remaining and would be forced to ditch in the sea.
It's approximately 2546 miles fron San Diego to Maui. A Cirrus SR22 has an approximate cruising range of 800 miles. http://cirrusaircraft.com/sr22/ Also from the Cirrus site:
Cabin payload with 3 hr trip fuel and 45 min reserve 974 lbs (442 kg)
2546 divided by 800 is three point something hops.
And according to the specs at the Cirrus site, when he radioed that he had only 3 hours fuel remaining he was at roughly full capacity.
But let's back this up a bit. He ran out of fuel 220 nm from Hawaii. 800 nm cruise range. Did he start +/- 1000 nm from Hawaii? That would be an uncharted tropic isle, no? <insert obligatory Gilligan's Island snarky comment here>
WHERE did this guy stop to refuel? At least twice!! This is not that word problem about how many stages, and where, someone has to stash 10 gallons of gas in order to cross the desert if he gets 12.75 mpg.
stay safe.
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Perhaps he did the Lindburgh/ KDNR5H thng and turn it into a flying gas can by adding tanks where people would normally sit/put their luggage?
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More digging got me this: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Tracy-Pilot-Runs-Out-of-Fuel-En-Route-to-Maui-Parachutes-Into-Pacific-Rescued-By-Cruise-Ship-289829261.html
1) they claim the SR22 has a 1000 nm range, not 800. Or is that pushing the extra 45 minutes reserve?
2) The plane was fitted with ferry tanks that gave it a range of 3000 nm
3) he had fuel but could not pump it from the tank to the engine.
I still prefer my original version.
stay safe.
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That's a big dangerous puddle. I flew across it once and was pretty happy to see Midway island where our C-40 got gas. Can't imagine getting there in the Pan-Am clipper days. It was pretty sketchy for our F-18s too they played tanker frogger all the way out. 3 aux tanks but even for airplanes that do it all the time you can run into fuel transfer problems and there are not a lot of divert fields On the San Diego-Hawaii-Guam route. I do know that once we had 2 working droptanks and pylons on the wings that the stayed there for the month of the exercise, pulled the centerline to save weight. An odd configuration for an F-18 but handy since the job was dissimilar air and it gave them an odd profile and extra loiter time to plan bad guy stuff.
If I can ever afford a plane I hope it is a Cirrus or something that stalls out at 25mph.
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I was just about to come over here and post this after seeing it on another site.
Watching the video, it looked like he was opening the cockpit and starting to get ready to get out before he landed. After seeing how quickly the plane sank, I realize he did have a lot of time.
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That's a big dangerous puddle. I flew across it once and was pretty happy to see Midway island where our C-40 got gas. Can't imagine getting there in the Pan-Am clipper days. It was pretty sketchy for our F-18s too they played tanker frogger all the way out. 3 aux tanks but even for airplanes that do it all the time you can run into fuel transfer problems and there are not a lot of divert fields On the San Diego-Hawaii-Guam route. I do know that once we had 2 working droptanks and pylons on the wings that the stayed there for the month of the exercise, pulled the centerline to save weight. An odd configuration for an F-18 but handy since the job was dissimilar air and it gave them an odd profile and extra loiter time to plan bad guy stuff.
If I can ever afford a plane I hope it is a Cirrus or something that stalls out at 25mph.
Slepcev (sp?) Storch, or similar kitplane - take off and land in ~50 FEET, as I recall from the days I was considering building a plane. Hey, they still make it! From the website (www.slepcevstorch.com), it is a 3/4 scale version of the (German) Fieseler Storch, and has the following capabilities:
"By keeping the weight down to a minimum, yet keeping the aircraft structurally still very strong, (+6 -3), the Slepcev Storch is very original in both appearance and performance. The aircraft will fly at 22mph at full flap and 30% of power. Take off run into a 16mph wind is vertical with no forward roll."
Nominal takeoff and landing distances are 50-100 feet. Cruise speed is a mere 70kts, listed endurance is 4 hours with an optional 100L belly tank giving another 3 for a total of 7 hrs (so about 490nm range with extra tank). So, it shines in short-field operations, without a ton of range, but I've got to admit, if I could fit into and had a license to fly one, I think it'd be pretty awesome.
Wouldn't try to fly it to Hawaii, though. I'm pretty sure the plane couldn't physically carry enough fuel to make that flight, even without the pilot.
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I want one of their Stukas....
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Yes, he had additional ferry tanks, and the transfer valve failed somehow. Mechanical failure, air-lock/bubble lock, or perhaps FOD or debris.
I guess it was cheaper than unbolting the wings and putting it on a cargo ship? Well, "cheaper before it landed in the ocean" anyway. =D
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That's a heck of a sales video for that chute system though. I need to win the lotto
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Slepcev (sp?) Storch, or similar kitplane - take off and land in ~50 FEET, as I recall from the days I was considering building a plane. Hey, they still make it! From the website (www.slepcevstorch.com), it is a 3/4 scale version of the (German) Fieseler Storch, and has the following capabilities:
"By keeping the weight down to a minimum, yet keeping the aircraft structurally still very strong, (+6 -3), the Slepcev Storch is very original in both appearance and performance. The aircraft will fly at 22mph at full flap and 30% of power. Take off run into a 16mph wind is vertical with no forward roll."
Nominal takeoff and landing distances are 50-100 feet. Cruise speed is a mere 70kts, listed endurance is 4 hours with an optional 100L belly tank giving another 3 for a total of 7 hrs (so about 490nm range with extra tank). So, it shines in short-field operations, without a ton of range, but I've got to admit, if I could fit into and had a license to fly one, I think it'd be pretty awesome.
Wouldn't try to fly it to Hawaii, though. I'm pretty sure the plane couldn't physically carry enough fuel to make that flight, even without the pilot.
I'd rather have a Helio Courier or a Pilatius Porter.
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Cirruth owners are about pleasant to be around as Priuth owners.
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Sounds vaguely like the plot to a James Thurber short story...
This guy wasn't named Jack Smurch by chance, was he?
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Bzzzt. Fail.
The plane was equipped with FERRY TANKS. Because they were FERRYING it to the islands. It should have had the range with its FERRY TANKS.
But the transfer switch failed.
You'd be shocked to learn how often small aircraft are FERRIED long distance with this method. They don't load them up on a ship to sell them overseas, Alaska, Hawaii, etc.
If you're going to post crumudgenly posts bitching about someone's fail, at least have your facts right skid.
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Bzzzt. Fail.
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If you're going to post crumudgenly posts bitching about someone's fail, at least have your facts right skid.
You mean like I did in my second post? The one I made after having spent quite some time searching for something that provided that information? The information which, I see, has moved up several pages in at least the two search engines I looked at before making my first post.
If you're going to post whiney posts bitching about people going off half-cocked, at least read through the whole thread to see if they a) found where/why they might have been half-cocked and b) if they posted to correct their error(s).
stay safe.
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You mean like I did in my second post? The one I made after having spent quite some time searching for something that provided that information? The information which, I see, has moved up several pages in at least the two search engines I looked at before making my first post.
If you're going to post whiney posts bitching about people going off half-cocked, at least read through the whole thread to see if they a) found where/why they might have been half-cocked and b) if they posted to correct their error(s).
stay safe.
If you're going to post whiney posts bitching about people posting whiney posts about people going off half-cocked.... :-*
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If you're going to post whiney posts bitching about people posting whiney posts about people going off half-cocked.... :-*
Not me, brother. Not any more, Now I piss & moan, but do not whine - was asked for cheese and crackers too often when I used to do that.
stay safe.
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I read these last few replies. Then I called my son. I threatened him with severe repercussions, should he ever consider putting me in some old-age home where curmudgeonly curmudgeons sit around and chew on each other all day. :-*
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Bzzzt. Fail.
The plane was equipped with FERRY TANKS. Because they were FERRYING it to the islands. It should have had the range with its FERRY TANKS.
But the transfer switch failed.
You'd be shocked to learn how often small aircraft are FERRIED long distance with this method. They don't load them up on a ship to sell them overseas, Alaska, Hawaii, etc.
If you're going to post crumudgenly posts bitching about someone's fail, at least have your facts right skid.
You're saying fairy quite a bit....
Telling us something?
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Given an approx. flight distance of ~2500 nm and a cruise speed of 210 nm/h, you are looking at least 11.9 hours flying time. That's a long time in the air in a flying gas can, where you can't get up, walk around and stretch their legs.
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But the transfer switch failed.
Am I the only one who would look at a setup that has the potential to leave me in a glider over middle of the Pacific, and absolutely insist that everything have some sort of manual backup that I can get to from inside? I mean, the guy apparently knew of the problem for three hours before the actual engine failure, and there wasn't any way he could reroute a line from an empty tank, siphon from the full tank to a working one, or *something*?
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I mean, the guy apparently knew of the problem for three hours before the actual engine failure, and there wasn't any way he could reroute a line from an empty tank, siphon from the full tank to a working one, or *something*?
It would appear not.
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Am I the only one who would look at a setup that has the potential to leave me in a glider over middle of the Pacific, and absolutely insist that everything have some sort of manual backup that I can get to from inside? I mean, the guy apparently knew of the problem for three hours before the actual engine failure, and there wasn't any way he could reroute a line from an empty tank, siphon from the full tank to a working one, or *something*?
Not and fly the plane also... ;/ ;/ ;/
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Not and fly the plane also... ;/ ;/ ;/
The cirrus likely has an autopilot but even then there is only so much one can do in a tight cockpit, especially if the fuel lines are not accessible to the pilot.
Anybody who has been in a GA aircraft can readily attest to the lack of room.
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You aint kiddin. SPecially at my size
Those ballistic parachutes are neat-o
COME ON MEGAMILLIONS
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Not and fly the plane also...
Trimmed out properly, it really isn't likely to veer off into the sky-median and crash into a sky-tree if you let go of the yoke for a while.
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Just how much of a Cirrus SR22's fuel system is accessible in flight?
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Just how much of a Cirrus SR22's fuel system is accessible in flight?
I'm going to go with "The tank selector, mixture control, and axillary fuel pump switch, and that's about it" for $800, Alex.
Here's a Cirrus cockpit view.
Notice there's not much room at all to move around in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nmuwcr8Clg&x-yt-cl=85114404&x-yt-ts=1422579428
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Just how much of a Cirrus SR22's fuel system is accessible in flight?
Depends.
Do you have your cordless sawzall with you?
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That's a long time in the air in a flying gas can, where you can't get up, walk around and stretch their legs.
Depends.
I guess that'd be one solution...
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You aint kiddin. SPecially at my size
Those ballistic parachutes are neat-o
COME ON MEGAMILLIONS
Neat-o my butt. I used to have to pass through my unit's paraloft a lot. One day they skipped a step in testing a barometric release on an ejection seat component and bounced its steel op-rod off over several walls. Dismay was expressed that it narrowly missed the head of the resident E-7, yes, they really did not like her. The missed step was hey stupid! Remove the CAD! Boldface warnings +eleventy!!!
Yeah. About a week later I had to stop in and they had a ballistic spreader laying out. From that point on i made excuses to not be there if such work was on-going, not down with the idea of a chunk of steel going through me and taking the shroud line with it.
So neat to see deploy from a distance maybe. I really despise working around any of it though.
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Just how much of a Cirrus SR22's fuel system is accessible in flight?
Of the main system, none, but the problem was with the ferry tank, which is installed in the cabin. I would bet the tanks and supply lines were right next to the pilot.
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Just how much of a Cirrus SR22's fuel system is accessible in flight?
That depends; how brave are you?
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Depends.
Do you have your cordless sawzall with you?
Plus if you're moving about the cabin, in a small plane you're changing the CG. What's going to happen when you trim from the pilot's seat, and then a twelfth of the weight in the aircraft shifts aft several feet and is moving around?
Of the main system, none, but the problem was with the ferry tank, which is installed in the cabin. I would bet the tanks and supply lines were right next to the pilot.
Which still leaves the problem of routing a new line into the mains, if the ferry tanks aren't feeding to... somewhere in the fuel system. Where is the feed problem? Is it the accessible part, or not?
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Plus if you're moving about the cabin, in a small plane you're changing the CG. What's going to happen when you trim from the pilot's seat, and then a twelfth of the weight in the aircraft shifts aft several feet and is moving around?
Well, if one of the ferry tanks hauling several hours' fuel is still full, there's a big chunk of weight that isn't going anywhere until you get that problem fixed. At any rate, you're moving rearward, so encouraging a nose-up attitude, but you're probably not going far enough to change W&B to the point of a cruise-power stall, given that most of the accessible cabin rear of the front seats should be full of tanks.
Which still leaves the problem of routing a new line into the mains, if the ferry tanks aren't feeding to... somewhere in the fuel system. Where is the feed problem? Is it the accessible part, or not?
That depends largely on the design of the ferry tanks. A well designed arrangement would put as much as possible of the hardware directly behind, if not actually between the front seats. Making it accessible and manually controlled would also reduce weight compared to a bunch of solenoids and control circuitry, and weight savings should also be a key consideration in designing ferry tanks for aircraft.
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Making it accessible and manually controlled would also reduce weight compared to a bunch of solenoids and control circuitry, and weight savings should also be a key consideration in designing ferry tanks for aircraft.
Question, if you include a manual pump, how much of a workout would it have been for the guy to keep pumping it into the main tanks?
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Question, if you include a manual pump, how much of a workout would it have been for the guy to keep pumping it into the main tanks?
Considering the main tanks are under pretty much everywhere you could put a ferry tank, why pump at all?
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Considering the main tanks are under pretty much everywhere you could put a ferry tank, why pump at all?
Apparently because the gravity flow route from the ferry tanks has stopped working?
stay safe.
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Apparently because the gravity flow route from the ferry tanks has stopped working?
Siphon. Or replace the kinked/clogged/whatever line.
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Considering the main tanks are under pretty much everywhere you could put a ferry tank, why pump at all?
*googles Cirrus SR22*
Yeah, that shouldn't take much effort to get into the proper tanks. I was posting while picturing it to be like a Cessna.
I think that if I was hooking up 'ferry tanks', I'd have at least 2 fuel lines going into each tank. Gravity fed, with a pump option.
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So, i had my first real lesson today.
Glad we had this thread. Saved my life, fo real
No *expletive deleted*it, there I was...
Took off from Grand Prairie, turned left for a downwind departure and flew past Joe Pool lake.
Right about then, engine started sputtering. Luckily after reading this thread, I had my sawzall.
So, while the instructor was pissing and moaning about following procedure and landing in a field, i said "aw hell nah" and climbed onto the wing.
An eagle came down from the sky carrying an AR 15, high fived me, then held the plane in a stable attitude while I rerouted fuel. The instructor objected to cutting into the floor and I didn't want to hear it, so I threw him out of the plane. But not before I tore out some of his intestines to use as replacement fuel line
True story
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I threw him out of the plane.
THIS IS SPARTACESSNA!
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So, i had my first real lesson today.
Glad we had this thread. Saved my life, fo real
No *expletive deleted*it, there I was...
Took off from Grand Prairie, turned left for a downwind departure and flew past Joe Pool lake.
Right about then, engine started sputtering. Luckily after reading this thread, I had my sawzall.
So, while the instructor was pissing and moaning about following procedure and landing in a field, i said "aw hell nah" and climbed onto the wing.
An eagle came down from the sky carrying an AR 15, high fived me, then held the plane in a stable attitude while I rerouted fuel. The instructor objected to cutting into the floor and I didn't want to hear it, so I threw him out of the plane. But not before I tore out some of his intestines to use as replacement fuel line
True story
:lol:
Is no coincidence that the very best stories all start with No *expletive deleted*it..
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So, i had my first real lesson today.
Glad we had this thread. Saved my life, fo real
No *expletive deleted*it, there I was...
Took off from Grand Prairie, turned left for a downwind departure and flew past Joe Pool lake.
Right about then, engine started sputtering. Luckily after reading this thread, I had my sawzall.
So, while the instructor was pissing and moaning about following procedure and landing in a field, i said "aw hell nah" and climbed onto the wing.
An eagle came down from the sky carrying an AR 15, high fived me, then held the plane in a stable attitude while I rerouted fuel. The instructor objected to cutting into the floor and I didn't want to hear it, so I threw him out of the plane. But not before I tore out some of his intestines to use as replacement fuel line
True story
You have won the internet for the day.