Author Topic: Need ideas for a paper setting  (Read 3565 times)

captain obvious

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« on: October 09, 2005, 05:11:23 PM »
I'm doing a paper for a course that I want to write about the change in the role of women in response to major civilization change. Aside from the fall of Rome, what are good examples of civilization collapsing in which records survive? My next thought was the end of the High Middle Ages, but I don't really know all that much about either era.
Any suggestions would be appriciated.

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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2005, 05:59:30 PM »
More current, Role of women in the workforce during war time. Rosie the Riveter if you will.

Perceptions of women only being able to do 'women's' work, have babies, keep house,be waitresses and so forth   changed.

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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2005, 06:22:05 PM »
The point was to try to research the change in the status of women during major (civilization shattering) recorded disasters/events - i am trying to find how quickly things have reverted in the past.

The rosie thing has been done too many times before to really hold my interest - as far as this is concerned.

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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2005, 12:54:30 AM »
Let me think on this and I'll reply tonight.

K Frame

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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2005, 04:52:35 AM »
Germany or Japan at the end of World War II.

Japan is particularly fascinating, as with the new Constitution that the Japanese were forced to adopt after the War women gained rights that they had never had in Japanese society.
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2005, 05:50:45 AM »
Take a look at a book called "How the Irish Saved Civilization- The Untold Story of Ireland's Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe" by Thomas Cahill.

Here's a review:
 Thomas Cahill's book How the Irish Saved Civilization is a wonderfully understandable look at a golden age in Irish history. He opens with a description of the final days of the Roman Empire in northern Europe, and a look at the classical civilization that had become endangered by the hordes of barbarians that had breached its borders.

Before long Cahill shifts to a look at Rome's contemporaries in Ireland in which the modern Irish spirit has its roots. Medh, the Queen of Connacht, appears as an early example of the strength of Irish womanhood. Her history lies in the fantastic tale of the Celts who arrive on the Irish island in the fourth century B.C.E. Those fierce warriors would establish a society marked by aggressive, violent interaction. Their moral code, which might have been "generous, handsome, and brave" would survive future invasions and become instilled in the Irish soul.

Cahill tells of how the Roman and Irish worlds met in a young Roman kidnapped from his British home by Irish marauders. Born Miliucc, he would spend six years in slavery, escape, and return as a Christian missionary. That missionary had learned much about the Irish people during his time as a slave and, blessed with a gentle faith and a wonder of the world around him, would make Ireland the only land converted to Christianity without violence. The Irish in turn would come to love their St. Patrick and approached Christianity with energy and fervor. A form of Christianity evolved that allowed the Irish to maintain some of the Celtic traditions that were an integral part of their world.

As Christianity settled in, monasteries were established throughout Ireland. The monks became passionate scribes not only of the Scriptures but also of other classical texts that were as risk of being lost after the fall of the Roman Empire. Celtic art forms were among the traditions that survived into the Irish Christian era and would lead to the development of spectacular illuminated manuscripts at the monks' hands. The Book of Kells is one well-known example of the monks' phenomenal artistry.

Cahill's book closes with tales of the first Irish missionaries to leave Ireland to spread their new faith. Once life had calmed down in the lands of the former Roman Empire the Irish monks moved out of their enclaves and brought Christianity back to Britain and continental Europe. Unfortunately, Viking invaders ravaged the peaceful world of post-Patrick Ireland. Other invasions would follow in centuries to come but none would destroy the Irish spirit or deny the role the Irish paid in "saving civilization."

Cahill's book is both thought-provoking and inspirational in its looks not only at the impact the Irish people had on European civilization but in its statements about the evolution of the Irish spirit, a people to this day - "generous, handsome, and brave."


How the Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story of Ireland's Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe
Thomas Cahill
Nan A. Talese/Doubleday, New York
246 pages
ISBN: 0-385-41849-3

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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2005, 12:09:33 PM »
Ok, the first one I thought off right of the bat was Boadecia, Queen of the Iceni, or Isobel of Buchan, but those were specific women, not groups, so probably aren't along the lines of what you were thinking.

Iraq itself might be an interesting case, given how religiously-oriented the new Constitution is.

Or the role of women in zionism, pre-and post-Israel.

Some other ideas: Women in the west..often they performed tasks the same as men..maybe look specificly at Wyoming.
http://www.autry-museum.org/explore/exhibits/suffrage/
http://www.autry-museum.org/explore/exhibits/suffrage/suffrage_wy.html

This story is about how the hurricane's in Galveston in the early 1900s led to a strengthening of the women's suffrage movement in Texas.
http://web2.unt.edu/news/story.cfm?story=8792.

I'm not sure any of these are specifically what you're looking for, although you'll find situations similar to Rosie the Riveter during and after all wars.

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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2005, 12:14:59 PM »
Of course, Isobel (allegedly my 21st Gr-Grandmother) was a warrior disobeyed her husband, stole his horses, and went off to fight for Robert the Bruce and placed the crown on his head.

Of course, she then spent several years locked in a cage in the air outside, and died in a convent, so maybe that's the "reversion" you were looking for. Smiley

Vodka7

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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2005, 12:25:56 PM »
From what you've said I gather your topic is "after a disaster, women are given extra responsibilities and priveledges, and when society returns to normal, they disappear."

You're going to have a hard time finding the research you want with such a specific hypothesis.  Look for things like the Flu pandemic, the black plague, historically important earthquakes.  AIDS work in Africa, maybe, although that's really apples and oranges.  I think most of the real changes are going to occur around cultural changes--look anywhere communism has risen or fallen, anywhere slavery or segregation has ended, anywhere the ruling class changed rapidly (Latin America, for example).  A lot of your best research is going to be buried under mountains and mountains of civil rights data that doesn't specifically help you, but what you're looking for will be there.  Look for Feminist books on any topic you decide on--your local librarians will be a great help.

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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2005, 12:44:57 PM »
Or women in early Christianity vs. later after the Romans took it over.

grampster

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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2005, 02:17:57 PM »
How about really taking an extremely daring move and write about the negative byproduct of how the women's liberation movement fueled inflation by injecting millions of new wage earners into the marketplace.  This increased demand, generated more tax revenue, which increased programs that led to increased tax rates.  The result:  Turned the American family into a two wage earner necessity household, plus conning women into believing they could not be "complete" unless they juggled family and career.

Research that one carefuly and see where research on that angle goes.  Everything ought to be debateable in a free country.  See if that is actually true.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2005, 02:25:04 PM »
Ack! E tu?

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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2005, 04:08:19 PM »
Har Har Har.  You were too excited about the subject!   Needed to be reigned in.  Har har har.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

K Frame

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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2005, 07:20:18 PM »
Another possibility.

Anglo-Saxon women in Britain before William the Bastard's invasion in 1066.

Prior to the Normans taking over, Anglo-Saxon women enjoyed significant equity and equality under the law.

Virtually overnight that changed, as Norman law essentially relegated women to nineth class status.
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2005, 02:24:52 PM »
I think you're right, Grampster. I'm tired of going to work every day. I really should find a good man and settle down and just work on making my home a warm and happy environment for him.

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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2005, 02:29:51 PM »
TOUCHE'  Tongue
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

telewinz

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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2005, 02:32:55 PM »
How about the decline of the traditional family as it relates to the rise of the women's rights movement.  I have a daughter and I want her to have all the rights she can get but I don't know how to reconcile the (apparent) consequence of independence with a 50%+ divorce rate.
Career Corrections

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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2005, 02:34:00 PM »
Hey, I was serious!

Interested applicants should send a copy of their most recent bank statement, 2 year's tax returns, a recent photo, and a copy of their thumb print for a background check.

I really do want it all. Cheesy

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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2005, 02:43:18 PM »
Well, you could help to do away with the expectation that she Must Find A Good Man and Settle Down, especially when she's young.

This was a great concept in say, 1640, when most people died by 45 anyway, but these days, not so necessary to rush out and find a spouse before you've even figured out what you really want out of life. There's that risk you might actually have to spend your life together now..back then, one of you was probably going to die anyway.

Women get conditioned from a young age to believe that their sole purpose in life is to Be Beautiful and Take Care of Others. A lot of them never realize that that is quite likely a bunch of bullshit, and they rarely discover it before 30 if ever. Then if and when they do figure it out, they either leave the poor guy standing there asking WTF happened to his happy home or they start taking anti-depressents and eating.

Tell her to say the hell with that, live her life, get an education, figure out what SHE wants and then worry about finding a partner and 2.3 children once she gets the other stuff figured out. She'll be happier, I promise. And her marriage will be more likely to survive if she's not doing it out of societal pressure.

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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2005, 02:50:20 PM »
OTOH, gramps, now I can find some hard-working, rich woman and sit home and do the housework, and not have to work.  Couldn't have done that 50 years ago.
I still say 'Give Detroit to Canada'

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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2005, 02:57:15 PM »
Also, on topic, this might be a good example of what you're looking for:

The Women's Land Army, women during WW1.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/women's_land_army.htm

Information on women filling various roles in Asia:

http://www.colorq.org/Articles/2002/asianwarriors.htm

grampster

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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2005, 05:11:34 PM »
You all stay away from SWMBO.  My collar is not too tight and my leash is long enough so that I can get to the refrigerator.

Captain Obvious:  Interview Barbara.   I've been reading her posts for a year.  She has a great story to share on several levels and in several different directions.  You want something to write a paper on that is not your  "typical hoo haa, let's get a dusty history book and give another slant on something a thousand other students did"  then do an in depth revelation on the modern woman's impact on her surroundings and her community.  You might surprise yourself and your innovative approach will certainly surprise your prof.  I smell an A+
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2005, 02:38:58 PM »
Dang, I checked my email about 30 times today and not one person sent me an application.

Cheesy