Author Topic: Wal-Mart exits gun business...  (Read 12530 times)

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« on: April 14, 2008, 12:29:11 PM »
Well, they will be, after the boycotts...  grin

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351244,00.html

Quote
Mayors Group Sets Up Deal With Wal-Mart on Tighter Gun Sales

Monday, April 14, 2008

WASHINGTON   Wal-Mart, the nation's largest seller of firearms, is striking a deal with outspoken gun control advocate New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg on tighter standards for such sales.

Bloomberg is announcing the initiative Monday as he meets with Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a group he founded to try to crack down on the unlawful traffic in weapons that are often used in crimes.

Under the group's Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. will agree to retain records of all sales in which guns are later found to be used in crimes, said mayoral spokesman Jason Post. The company will also conduct background checks on employees who handle guns

Are they allowed to retain any records other than 4473's, and, if not, are they allowed to do anything more than BATFE allows?

Or is this just posturing with no practical changes?
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2008, 12:35:04 PM »
From AP

This is definitely going to go over well with gun people.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gralhnpSNmqf6CzJAV7ELLbucN1gD901S2882

Quote
Wal-Mart Toughens Gun Policies
By DEVLIN BARRETT  54 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP)  Wal-Mart, the nation's largest seller of firearms, announced Monday it will toughen rules for gun sales, from storing video of purchases to creating an internal log of which guns they sell that are later used in crimes.

J.P. Suarez, the chief compliance officer for Wal-Mart Stores Inc., appeared with outspoken gun control advocate Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York to announce the changes at a gathering of Bloomberg's group Mayors Against Illegal Guns.

Changes to come at about 1,100 Wal-Mart stores selling guns include:

_Creating a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime. If the purchaser of that gun later tries to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk of the prior buy and could refuse to make the sale.

_Retaining the recorded images of gun sales in case law enforcement wants to view them later as part of an investigation.

_Expanding background checks of employees who handle guns and expanding inventory controls.

Suarez said the tougher standards will come with some additional cost to the company.

"The costs are we think part of what it takes to be responsible. Everything is not pain free," he said, adding that small sellers can implement many of the same rules. He did not say how long it would take to implement all the changes, but noted that software must still be created for an internal log of guns later used in crimes.

Suarez said his company may receive some pressure from gun rights groups, but added, "This is not a signal that we're getting out of firearms."

Bloomberg urged other companies to join Wal-Mart in the initiative called the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership.

"We didn't pressure them, they're doing it because they think it's the responsible thing to do," said Bloomberg.

Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer, had previously tried to establish a store in New York City but failed.


The mayors' gun summit also unveiled a new lobbying effort to close what they call the "gun show loophole" that allows people to purchase guns without background checks at gun shows.

Bloomberg founded the group two years ago with Boston mayor Thomas Menino to reduce the flow of guns from store displays into the hands of criminals.

The group, largely funded by Bloomberg's personal fortune, announced it was spending more than $100,000 on television ads starting Wednesday featuring all three of the current main presidential candidates voicing their opposition to the gun show loophole.

The ads will run in the home states of the three presidential candidates  John McCain of Arizona, Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois. It also will air across Pennsylvania, which holds its primary next week, as well as Florida, Maryland and Massachusetts.

The mayors group is trying to gather support in Congress to:

_End the gun show loophole.

_Require gun dealers to perform criminal background checks on all gun-handling employees.

_Close a so-called fire-sale loophole that allows gun dealers whose licenses have been revoked by the government to sell off their inventory without background checks.

_Add those placed on the terrorist no-fly list to the list of people prohibited from purchasing a firearm.


On that "fire sale" bit.  Isn't that a sale to other dealers, who don't need a check anyway?



"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2008, 01:05:37 PM »
I picked up a 100 round WWB pack at Wally World before a IDPA shoot, the clerk wanted to see my ID so she could scan it at the register. I almost walked out the store without my purchase if I wasn't set on shooting that AM.

I am still trying to figure out why they couldn't just look at my ID to make sure I am over 21 instead of scanning it.

Oh yeah Bloomberg, crack down on the criminals, also you might as well ban cars also since they are used in crime.



Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,317
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2008, 01:06:57 PM »
Quote

I am still trying to figure out why they couldn't just look at my ID to make sure I am over 21 instead of scanning it.

They have never tried to scan my ID, nor would I let them.

I will never buy a gun from Walmart after this. Undecided on ammo, though...Ammo is a bit harder to obtain at a reasonable price around here.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 01:10:27 PM »
Good. Who needs 'em?

bedlamite

  • Hold my beer and watch this!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,790
  • Ack! PLBTTPHBT!
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 01:12:47 PM »
On that "fire sale" bit.  Isn't that a sale to other dealers, who don't need a check anyway?


AFAIK, after the FFL is gone, the ATF considers the guns the property of the person who held the FFL, and they can be sold as a private sale without a 4473, assuming no local laws are broken.
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,317
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 01:39:47 PM »
Quote
Good. Who needs 'em?

Well, when you are a student trying not to get raped over the price of ammo, Walmart is kind of nice. I don't have money to burn, and when the local dealer charges twice what Walmart charges for a box of Federal .30-30...

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2008, 01:57:56 PM »
Quote
Good. Who needs 'em?

Well, when you are a student trying not to get raped over the price of ammo, Walmart is kind of nice. I don't have money to burn, and when the local dealer charges twice what Walmart charges for a box of Federal .30-30...



So, the local businesses are 'raping' you?  Don't they have to make a living, also?

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,317
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 02:13:04 PM »
Quote
So, the local businesses are 'raping' you?  Don't they have to make a living, also?

I'm also leaving out the bad customer service, my treatment because I was a teenager, and the outrageous price of well, everything. I'm sorry, but a box of ammo costs $9.50 at Walmart and $23.95 at the aformentioned gunshop, where do you think I am going to take my money?

Or when they tell me that a SBR is a $5 tax? AND they are supposed to be competent in dealing with NFA stuff?

If it wasn't for Walmart, I wouldn't have nearly the amount of ammo, nor would I be able to afford to shoot very much at all.



Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,768
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2008, 02:27:30 PM »
Save your money and mail order is the only alternative I can suggest. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,768
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2008, 02:29:36 PM »
Quote
Changes at the stores that sell guns will include the creation of a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime.

So they will essentially have a gun registration for all guns sold at their store?  Who will they share that information with? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2008, 02:45:54 PM »
Quote
Good. Who needs 'em?

Well, when you are a student trying not to get raped over the price of ammo, Walmart is kind of nice. I don't have money to burn, and when the local dealer charges twice what Walmart charges for a box of Federal .30-30...



So, the local businesses are 'raping' you?  Don't they have to make a living, also?

They do that by being competitive, either in service, price, or both.

Amazing concept.

Chris

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2008, 02:46:58 PM »
Apparently, they're not 'exiting' the gun business, only keeping better records

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2008, 02:48:28 PM »
Quote
They do that by being competitive, either in service, price, or both.

Amazing concept.

Chris

Yeah.  Ain't nothin' like third world child sweatshop labor to keep those costs down, right Chris?

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2008, 02:51:29 PM »
That's funny, I didn't know the guns and ammo sold in Wal-Mart were made in third world sweatshops.  Ruger, Remington, Weatherby, Marlin...

Not that it matters.  I spend my money where I get the most value.  For guns, it isn't WM, nor is it for most ammo purchases, but I won't rule them out over misguided PC concerns.

Chris

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2008, 02:58:30 PM »
Oh, and how else would those kids earn a living if Wal-Mart's business didn't keep them gainfully employed?  Sweatshop work is better than no work.

Chris

Angel Eyes

  • Lying dog-faced pony soldier
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,321
  • You're not diggin'
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2008, 03:36:47 PM »
Apparently, they're not 'exiting' the gun business, only keeping better records

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/

From the article:

Quote
Changes to come at about 1,100 Wal-Mart stores selling guns include:

Creating a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime. If the purchaser of that gun later tries to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk of the prior buy and could refuse to make the sale.

So if I buy a gun from Wally World, and it is stolen from me and used in a crime, I could be prohibited from buying another gun from them.  Punishing the victim, are we?  (not to mention the issue of how WM would be notified that a given gun was used in a crime: repeal the Tiahrt  amendment, I assume).

None of the measures listed in the article is going to keep even one gun out of the hands of criminals.  Then again, I suspect that was never the intent.

-Jack


"End of quote.  Repeat the line."
  - Joe 'Ron Burgundy' Biden

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2008, 03:45:36 PM »
Quote
So if I buy a gun from Wally World, and it is stolen from me and used in a crime, I could be prohibited from buying another gun from them.

If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one? 

Quote
Sweatshop work is better than no work.

Do you have small children, Chris?  How would you feel about them working 10-14 hours a day around dangerous equipment?  How would you feel if they lost fingers or hands?  But it's ok for the 'furrin' kids, right?  Because they're somehow inferior to your children.  rolleyes

No wonder Americans are reviled around the world.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2008, 03:51:26 PM »
Quote
Good. Who needs 'em?

Well, when you are a student trying not to get raped over the price of ammo, Walmart is kind of nice. I don't have money to burn, and when the local dealer charges twice what Walmart charges for a box of Federal .30-30...



So, the local businesses are 'raping' you?  Don't they have to make a living, also?
What's so terrible about being able to buy ammo at half the price?  Average folks like Avenger and me and most everyone I know, we like being able to buy stuff for less.  We like it when our money goes farther.  Wal Mart is great for that.

I thought you were all about standing up for the little guy.  Or do you only care about the little guy when it gives you a chance to grind your ax?

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2008, 03:55:31 PM »
Quote
So if I buy a gun from Wally World, and it is stolen from me and used in a crime, I could be prohibited from buying another gun from them.

If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one? 
Perhaps because it's your constitutional right to own firearms...?

Quote
Sweatshop work is better than no work.

Do you have small children, Chris?  How would you feel about them working 10-14 hours a day around dangerous equipment?  How would you feel if they lost fingers or hands?  But it's ok for the 'furrin' kids, right?  Because they're somehow inferior to your children.  rolleyes

No wonder Americans are reviled around the world.
Sweatshop work sucks, no doubt about it.  But the reality for many people around the world is that sweatshop work, bad as it is, is the best choice they have.  Are you so ignorant of the rest of the world that you don't realize how deplorable conditions are in most other countries, that for many people sweatshop work is a step up?  What gives you the right to deny them the choice?

And tell me, which ammunition manufacturer produces their ammo in sweatshops?  I'd like to know, so that I don't buy their inferior product by mistake.

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2008, 04:04:10 PM »
Quote
If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one? 

Yeah, that's right.

And if your car is stolen, then you shouldn't be able to own another car, because you obviously aren't responsible enough to keep it from being stolen.

Same thing with houses - if a burglar breaks in, you should be thrown out on the street and someone else should have your house who will put in better locks and an alarm system, etc.

And money too ... if you get robbed, then you shouldn't ever handle money again  rolleyes
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2008, 04:06:01 PM »
Quote
Are you so ignorant of the rest of the world that you don't realize how deplorable conditions are in most other countries, that for many people sweatshop work is a step up?

I'll need awhile to ponder the full arrogance of that statement.  I choose to believe that your tolerance of child sweatshop labor is just an aberration, and that's it's not the prevailing attitude of the American people.

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2008, 04:10:29 PM »
Quote
If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one? 

Yeah, that's right.

And if your car is stolen, then you shouldn't be able to own another car, because you obviously aren't responsible enough to keep it from being stolen.

Same thing with houses - if a burglar breaks in, you should be thrown out on the street and someone else should have your house who will put in better locks and an alarm system, etc.

And money too ... if you get robbed, then you shouldn't ever handle money again  rolleyes

The very least that will happen is your insurance premiums will increase.  But I suppose that's unfair too.  After all, you're just a victim.  rolleyes  A victim of your own negligence.

Mabs2

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,979
  • セクシー
    • iCarly
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2008, 04:15:41 PM »
I have never planned on buying a gun from Wal-Mart.  Same with ammo.  I don't even look at the stuff when I go there.  I would much rather spend the extra few dollars and buy from the guys at the local shop.  Maybe I'm just lucky to have a great gunshop in the area...
Quote from: jamisjockey
Sunday it felt a little better, but it was quite irritated from me rubbing it.
Quote from: Mike Irwin
If you watch any of the really early episodes of the Porter Waggoner show she was in (1967) it's very clear that he was well endowed.
Quote from: Ben
Just wanted to give a forum thumbs up to Dick.

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: Wal-Mart exits gun business...
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2008, 04:18:25 PM »
Do you have small children, Chris?  How would you feel about them working 10-14 hours a day around dangerous equipment?  How would you feel if they lost fingers or hands?  But it's ok for the 'furrin' kids, right?  Because they're somehow inferior to your children.  rolleyes

No wonder Americans are reviled around the world.

Yes, I have children.  If that was the best we could do and the alternative was starving, then I wouldn't have much choice in the matter. 

If anyone is forcing these kids to work, it's their parents.  Go whine to them.

Chris