Author Topic: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.  (Read 12410 times)

yesitsloaded

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http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html
 TBLISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Russian television Friday showed a convoy of Russian tanks and said they were heading into the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia as escalating tensions over the region threatened to boil into full blown conflict.
Georgian troops fire rockets at separatist South Ossetian troops from an unnamed location not far from Tskhinvali.

The move came after Russia denounced as "aggressive" a Georgian troops military offensive to regain control over the province, vowing to respond.

Russian authorities earlier said several of its peacekeepers died in a Georgian attack in South Ossetia, which borders Russia and has strong ties to its vast northern neighbor, and they vowed not to leave Russian citizens in the territory unprotected.

"The Georgian leadership has launched a dirty adventure," a statement from Russia's Defense Ministry said on Friday. "We will not leave our peacekeepers and Russian citizens unprotected."

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Georgia started the fighting and warned that Russia would respond to their actions.

"Heavy weapons and artillery have been sent there, and tanks have been added. Deaths and injuries have been reported, including among Russian peacekeepers," Putin said in comments carried Friday by Russia's Interfax news agency. Video Watch more about the increased violence in Georgia »

"It's all very sad and alarming. And, of course, there will be a response."

Earlier Friday, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said in a televised statement that Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities.

He added that there were injuries and damage to buildings. "A full-scale aggression has been launched against Georgia," he said.

A Georgian official reported that seven people were hurt in the attack, the Associated Press said.

Saakashvili urged Russia to immediately stop bombing Georgian territory. "Georgia will not yield its territory or renounce its freedom," he said.

He also called for the full-scale mobilization of Georgian reserve forces as fighting continued to rage in South Ossetia's capital.

Meanwhile, NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer issued a statement Friday saying he was seriously concerned about the recent events in the region, and called on "all sides to end armed clashes and begin direct talks."

The United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence. "The U.S. has been in discussions for many months with all parties to find a peaceful resolution," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

"We urge all sides to refrain from violence and to begin direct talks."

Russian peacekeepers are in South Ossetia under a 1992 agreement by Russian, Georgian, and South Ossetian authorities to maintain what has been a fragile peace. The mixed peacekeeping force also includes Georgian and South Ossetian troops.

The latest events came just hours after the U.N. Security Council finished an emergency session to discuss a dramatic escalation of violence in Georgia and South Ossetia. The session ended Friday morning without a statement about the fighting.

Violence has been mounting in the region in recent days, with sporadic clashes between Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists. South Ossetia declared its independence from Georgia in the early 1990s, but its independence is not internationally recognized.

Georgian troops launched new attacks in South Ossetia late Thursday after a top government official said a unilateral cease-fire offer was met with separatist artillery fire.

"The objective of the operation is to protect the civilian population, to ensure their security and then convince the separatists that there is not a military solution to this conflict," said Alexander Lomaia, the secretary of Georgia's National Security Council.

Lomaia said Georgian troops were responding proportionately to separatist mortar and artillery attacks on two villages -- attacks he said followed the cease-fire and call for negotiations by Saakashvili.

The official news agency of the South Ossetian government reported heavy shelling in the territory's capital, Tskhinvali, that left dozens of buildings ablaze.

About 2,000 Georgian troops attempted to storm Tskhinvali overnight and were regrouping south of the city, according to Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency.

Around 10 a.m. Friday, Georgia said Russian military aircraft violated Georgian airspace and dropped two bombs on Kareli, a part of Georgia that is about 50 miles northwest of the capital, Tblisi, and is not in the conflict zone, said Shota Utiashvili, spokesman for the Georgian Ministry of Interior.

Georgia, located on the Black Sea coast between Russia and Turkey, has been split by Russian-backed separatist movements in South Ossetia and another region, Abkhazia.

Georgian and South Ossetian negotiators had been scheduled to meet Friday in Tskhinvali, Moscow's chief negotiator, Yuri Popov, told the Russian news agency Interfax.

Saakashvili announced Thursday night that he had ordered his troops to cease fire while the negotiators met, but Lomaia said the call was met with more attacks.
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In addition, Lomaia said, hundreds of "mercenaries" -- or "volunteers," as the South Ossetians described them -- are pouring across the border from Russia to join the fight.

The commander of a Russian peacekeeping mission has told Georgian officials that his troops are unable to control the situation.

There goes the neighborhood.
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Manedwolf

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2008, 03:49:54 AM »
News just reported that the Russians are bombing the military airfield that the US just left, there. Georgia reports that it has shot down two Russian aircraft.

Missile fire and heavy artillery fire have been reported in Tskhinvali, with "many buildings on fire". There's also apparently fighting between mechanized armor going on.

There goes the neighborhood, indeed. sad

wmenorr67

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2008, 04:03:51 AM »
Yes and Georgia has shot down two Russian planes.
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Manedwolf

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2008, 04:08:14 AM »
Sounds like a typical European war, in that, as usual, villages have been destroyed in the artillery and armor fighting. Tskhinvali is "almost completely destroyed", witnesses have now reported, and a number of other villages got to be battlegrounds for tank fights, apparently.

Why do they always have tank fights in the villages in Europe? Every single war, they do that.

PTK

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2008, 04:23:51 AM »
Well crap. That's not good news at all.  undecided
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MechAg94

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2008, 05:15:22 AM »
Sounds like a typical European war, in that, as usual, villages have been destroyed in the artillery and armor fighting. Tskhinvali is "almost completely destroyed", witnesses have now reported, and a number of other villages got to be battlegrounds for tank fights, apparently.

Why do they always have tank fights in the villages in Europe? Every single war, they do that.
Houses provide concealment I guess for tanks, vehicles, and anti-tank infantry. 
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HankB

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2008, 05:45:28 AM »
Sounds like a typical European war, in that, as usual, villages have been destroyed in the artillery and armor fighting. Tskhinvali is "almost completely destroyed", witnesses have now reported, and a number of other villages got to be battlegrounds for tank fights, apparently.

Why do they always have tank fights in the villages in Europe? Every single war, they do that.
If you go to Tskhinvali on Google Earth and switch on "terrain" you'll see the place is in a natural valley between mountains, with plains to the south . . . a natural funnel/choke point where armor is concerned.
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Manedwolf

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2008, 05:53:53 AM »
Russia just sent at least 150 armored units into that area, and Georgia is sending all their own. And they're slugging it out.

That is NOT a place you'd want to be right now.

Though when it comes to "tank style", people from that area still have it down. This is a Georgian tanker from a photo today:


The Annoyed Man

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2008, 08:00:21 AM »
He's got kind of a "bring it on" look to him, doesn't he?  cool

Of course, he's probably sitting in a T-55 going up against T-90s and Migs, but I guess it isn't the size of the dog in the fight . . .

Perd Hapley

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2008, 08:24:33 AM »
Why do they always have tank fights in the villages in Europe? Every single war, they do that. 

Wouldn't you expect villages and towns to be located at the cross-roads, the bridges, the fords, etc?
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Dntsycnt

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2008, 08:25:38 AM »
What's the deal with the barrel on that rifle?

Gewehr98

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2008, 08:34:39 AM »
It's a Krinkov - a shorty AK variant w/either sidefolding or underfolding stock.  Russian tank crews like them a lot because they maneuver and stow better in the cramped confines of that vehicle compared to the full-length Kalashnikovs.

Depending on what it's chambered for, either 5.45x39, or 7.62x39, it can be quite loud and obnoxious.  I paid a bunch for my 7.62x39 NFA semiauto variant, but it is indeed a kick in the pants. Here's one in 5.45x39 (it could be a domestic 5.56x45 variant, too)

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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2008, 09:56:48 AM »
 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4486208.ece
 An interesting, and unsettling quote.
Quote
Mr Saakashvili, a US-educated lawyer who succeeded Eduard Shevardnadze in 2004 and has since tried to align it more closely to the West, compared the Russian action with the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and appealed to the outside world to intervene.

"Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory," he told CNN as Russian armour rolled into South Ossetia.

"Its not about Georgia anymore. Its about America, its values: we are a freedom-loving nation that is right now under attack."

One of Many

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2008, 10:27:19 AM »
Russia has been occupying the breakaway region, and had the "peacekeepers" there to establish a claim on the territory. Many of the citizens there have Russian citizenship, so that Russia can claim the right to enter and use force to "protect" their citizens. It is much like the "possession is nine tenths of the law" proverb concerning disputed property.

The Russians encourage the local separatists to attack the Georgian defense forces, then when the Georgian national troops respond, Russia calls it a provocation justifying the invasion. It is a sham to cover a planned takeover of territory belonging to Georgia, and conversion of that territory to Russian Control. If the UN and NATO allow this to happen, you will see the same thing repeated in other areas where the locals don't want to be governed by their national government. The locals don't want to be governed by Russia either, but they will use Russia for a while to obtain their independence from federal control, then they will revolt against Russia at a later time.

The locals that are loyal to Russia are evacuating the area, so that most of the deaths will be among those that support the Georgian Federal government. The Russians will claim that the damages done to the towns and villages was caused by the Georgian troops, even though most of the power in the region is in the hands of the Russian military. Will David (Georgia) be able to slay Goliath (Russia) with a slingshot?

If and when the Russians withdraw, Georgia will be looking at a region that has had its economy destroyed, and massive costs to rebuild. Russia will not provide any of the costs to rebuild. If Russia defeats Georgia, then Russia will rebuild the region and force all of the Georgian citizens out of the area, repopulating it with only Russian people from the nearby areas, and the Russian citizens that occupied the area in order to justify the attack in the first place.

This is a well planned and carefully orchestrated attempt to takeover a part of a neighboring country, not unlike Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait. The question is will the UN, NATO and the US have the courage to take military action to kick Russia out of the region as Hussein was after his invasion? Russia is betting that they will not, because of the size, military power, and economic clout that Russia has.

lupinus

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2008, 10:29:38 AM »
Isn't Georgia our ally?  Or at least ally of sorts?

Be interesting to see what sort of response the west, and especially America NATO in particular, give Russia over this.

If your citizens are in a war zone helping them get out is fine.  Full blown assaults are not covered by that excuse.

Though I think it would be hilarious if Georgia kicks Russian troops in the ass and holds them off.
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ssn vet

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2008, 10:35:21 AM »
South Ossetia,

Putin's pay back for Kosevo!


Quote
If your citizens are in a war zone helping them get out is fine. 


The setting of the stage for this little party has been going on since '89.  Russia started issueing passports to the Georgian Ossetians a couple years ago, creating the basis for them "protecting our people".

Quote
This is a Georgian tanker from a photo today:


if he's alive tomorrow, he'll be one of the lucky ones.....did you catch the photos of burning Georgian armor?

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,4780,00.html#8_0

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lupinus

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2008, 11:12:05 AM »
Quote
The setting of the stage for this little party has been going on since '89.  Russia started issueing passports to the Georgian Ossetians a couple years ago, creating the basis for them "protecting our people".
Speaking purely hypothetically of course, don't have faith they are legitimately doing so.
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Manedwolf

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2008, 11:55:21 AM »
Vlad ruining George's day at the Olympic opening ceremonies.

"Oh hai, we just invaded Georgia. A city got blown to hell and there's a lot of tanks."



Poor George. Probably had to go down a bottle of Pepto.

seeker_two

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2008, 11:56:42 AM »
Quote
Will David (Georgia) be able to slay Goliath (Russia) with a slingshot?

Wonder, if things get desperate for the Georgians,  we'll find out that Georgia has been hiding a few of those missing Russian nuclear "slingshots"?.....
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xavier fremboe

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2008, 12:46:05 PM »
SWMBO and I are supposed to go to Russia next month.  Wonder how this will effect things... undecided
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2008, 12:46:52 PM »
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hpNRP9ysixHH3P9izLJRjYT1ATkA
Check out the map.  The Russians are about to take Savannah.

MechAg94

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2008, 02:05:22 PM »
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hpNRP9ysixHH3P9izLJRjYT1ATkA
Check out the map.  The Russians are about to take Savannah.
That is classic!   laugh
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xavier fremboe

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2008, 02:42:49 PM »
текумцех шерман is at the head of the column marching to the sea.
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De Selby

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Re: While the world was watching the Olympics, Russia has started a war.
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2008, 05:51:43 PM »
Wait a second here:

Not that Russia is a good place...but here're the facts as I can make them out:

The Ossetians do not want to be part of Georgia.  If anything, they want to be part of Russia.

Georgian troops attacked South Ossetia.

Russia is now attacking Georgia, screaming that Georgia attacked its allies in Ossetia (who apparently actually do not want to be part of Georgia)...

And Russia started the war? I should be rooting for Georgia to force a state to join Georgia why?
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