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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on June 27, 2010, 12:01:12 AM

Title: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Monkeyleg on June 27, 2010, 12:01:12 AM
I have in my new backyard a privacy fence made of lengths of 1" x 6" boards. They might be redwood, or maybe they're just stained to look like it. I haven't inspected them that closely.

There's a few that have warped at the top or bottom and come loose from the structure. Rather than try to make new ones or look for existing ones to match, I'm wondering if the boards can be submerged in water to soften them, then be fasted back on. I'm thinking that doing this might "warp" them straight.

Of course, I know next to nothing about working with wood. Could this work?
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 27, 2010, 12:09:05 AM
Sure -- until they dry out again. They warp because the grain isn't symmetrical. There's a possibility this fix might hold for long term, but the best repair is to replace. When doing paneling that we really don't want to see warp, we cut a few kerfs in the back (hidden) side, leaving a thinner face so any warpage doesn't have as much force to pull on the fasteners. But that only works where the back side is concealed.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Monkeyleg on June 27, 2010, 12:36:35 AM
Quote
But that only works where the back side is concealed.

Around here every house has a fence, so the side facing away from our yard is obscured by the neighbors' fences. So the the kerfs might work.

But what's a kerf? ;)
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 27, 2010, 12:44:51 AM

But what's a kerf? ;)

'Frek' spelled backwards.

Brad
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Monkeyleg on June 27, 2010, 12:49:08 AM
sknaht.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 27, 2010, 02:14:08 AM
Around here every house has a fence, so the side facing away from our yard is obscured by the neighbors' fences. So the the kerfs might work.

But what's a kerf? ;)

It's just a groove, a sawcut that only goes 1/3 to 1/2 of the depth of the board.

A kerf will also weaken the board. If you want to try it, I'd suggest doing your wetting and straightening first, then use a Skilsaw to cut a couple of lengthwise "kerfs" before you nail or screw the boards back in place. Use screws -- they're much more resistant to pull-out. If you cut the kerfs first, the boards might break along the cuts when you try to straighten them.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 27, 2010, 09:33:28 AM
But what's a kerf? ;)

You're from the land of Paul Bunyan, and you don't know kerf?   :P
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: KD5NRH on June 27, 2010, 09:45:26 AM
There's a few that have warped at the top or bottom and come loose from the structure. Rather than try to make new ones or look for existing ones to match, I'm wondering if the boards can be submerged in water to soften them, then be fasted back on. I'm thinking that doing this might "warp" them straight.

The best way to do that would be to get something very straight and strong, like maybe a hardwood 6x6 of the right length, steam the boards, and clamp them to the straight piece until they dry.  Use a few spacers, so you're actually overbending the warped boards slightly, so that when they spring back on being released, they'll be straight.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: 230RN on June 27, 2010, 10:02:21 AM
kerf n. A groove or notch made by a cutting tool, such as a saw or an ax. The width of a cut made by a cutting tool.  The transverse distance between the offsets of the teeth of a saw.  Can also be applied to the width of a torch cut.  Usage: "Don't use a torch to cut kerfs in the backs of your fence boards."

Quote
from wiki: # Kerf: Width of the saw cut. On most saws the kerf is wider than the saw blade because the teeth are flared out sideways (set). This allows the blade to move through the cut easily without getting stuck (binding). However, some saws are made so that the teeth have no set on one side. This is done so that the saw can lie flat on a surface and cut along the surface without scratching it. These are referred to as flush cutting saws. Although the term kerf is often used to refer to the width of the saw blade, it actually means the width of the cut, which is affected by the width of the blade, the amount of wobble created during cutting, and the amount of material pulled out of the sides of the cut. This distinction can be important because the use of a blade that is too thin can result in excessive wobble and a wider kerf.

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F0%2F0c%2FSaw_blade.png%2F100px-Saw_blade.png&hash=2712af9375fddce5a8e861bc9220e1b9d1e9cdea)

For steel in a lathe:

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mini-lathe.com%2Fmini_lathe%2Foperation%2FParting%2FParting2.jpg&hash=be606c6a525afbb942b3cc8e1eac470706428991)

(Credit: http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_lathe/operation/Parting/parting.htm)

The kerf is obvious here, though it's very close to the width of the cutter.

There.  That orta do it.

Ha.  Now you guys got me interested in the word's origins, so look out!

Terry, 230RN

(saw kerf diagram also from the wiki article.)
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Monkeyleg on June 27, 2010, 10:53:03 AM
Quote
You're from the land of Paul Bunyan, and you don't know kerf?

The land of Paul Bunyan is Brainerd, MN. I'm from Milwaukee, the land of beer and brats.

Thanks for the replies. This sounds simple enough but, with my ability to really mess up woodworking projects, I expect the boards to all crack in half.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 27, 2010, 11:18:20 AM
The land of Paul Bunyan is Brainerd, MN. I'm from Milwaukee, the land of beer and brats.


My apologies.  The "kerf" is (among other things) the notch cut in the trunk of a tree, in the direction it is intended to fall.  When using a chain-saw, the kerf is also the wooden wedge that is removed from said notch. 
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Sergeant Bob on June 27, 2010, 12:24:27 PM
The land of Paul Bunyan is Brainerd, MN. I'm from Milwaukee, the land of beer and brats.

Thanks for the replies. This sounds simple enough but, with my ability to really mess up woodworking projects, I expect the boards to all crack in half.

One thing I love about these forums is the vast quantities of available wisdom.

I now know where Paul Bunyan is from, what a "kerf" is, and that Wisconsin is full of fat drunks. :P =D
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Doggy Daddy on June 27, 2010, 12:36:37 PM
Quote
I now know where Paul Bunyan is from, what a "kerf" is, and that Wisconsin is full of fat drunks.

I knew 2 out of 3 before reading this thread.   =D

DD
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Harold Tuttle on June 27, 2010, 12:51:55 PM
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mini-lathe.com%2Fmini_lathe%2Foperation%2FParting%2FParting2.jpg&hash=be606c6a525afbb942b3cc8e1eac470706428991)

I thought that was swarf
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Harold Tuttle on June 27, 2010, 12:52:51 PM
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium1.uploadit.org%2FdocZox%2F%2Fmerryworf.jpg&hash=f3923a50002a7e03454b8843816664945438ed2d)
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Sergeant Bob on June 27, 2010, 01:33:10 PM
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium1.uploadit.org%2FdocZox%2F%2Fmerryworf.jpg&hash=f3923a50002a7e03454b8843816664945438ed2d)

He said "warped", not "Worfed". :P
Title: just a thought
Post by: sanglant on June 27, 2010, 02:35:01 PM
if your willing to invest enough cash, you could stabilize them. meaning using a vacuum pull epoxy through the grain. but i have never heard of anyone setting up to do pieces that size. :angel: maybe some thin CA glue soaked in from the unfinished side?
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 27, 2010, 03:36:07 PM
He said "warped", not "Worfed". :P


I think that picture counts for both.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: KD5NRH on June 27, 2010, 04:34:32 PM
I thought that was swarf

Swarf is the stuff that was in the kerf.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Scout26 on June 27, 2010, 06:59:08 PM
One thing I love about these forums is the vast quantities of available wisdom.

Sadly, not much of it is useful..... =D ;)



My college roommate was from Brainerd, MN.  One of the previous jobs listed on his resume was "Operated Largest Talking Animation in the World, the 26ft tall Paul Bunyan at the entrance of Paul Bunyan Land."
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Tallpine on June 27, 2010, 09:21:46 PM
A kerf is where sawdust comes from  :laugh:

This topic is a good springboard for conversation.  =D

Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: charby on June 27, 2010, 11:58:47 PM
Student of Forestry here, more than likely the board will return to its warped shape. Check out this paper on some wood geek. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1987/maegl87a.pdf
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Harold Tuttle on June 28, 2010, 10:03:29 AM
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium1.uploadit.org%2FdocZox%2F%2Fidentifying-wood.jpg&hash=4f628814a255df7ca6856535406532eb8729edc0)

a proper installation with the right materials is dimensionally stable,
It's hard to fix something that wasn't installed correctly.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Monkeyleg on June 28, 2010, 10:05:33 AM
:D:D:D

OK, I'll try it on just a couple of boards to see if it works. That is, I'll try it on a couple of boards in a couple of months when it's not in the 90's and humid. ;)
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: gunsmith on June 28, 2010, 01:21:03 PM
even the most warped board can be made straight if he lets God into his heart. :angel:
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 28, 2010, 06:50:38 PM
:D:D:D

OK, I'll try it on just a couple of boards to see if it works. That is, I'll try it on a couple of boards in a couple of months when it's not in the 90's and humid. ;)

Actually, hot weather with high humidity would be a good time to try it -- as far as the wood is concerned. Rough on you, though. You want to get the wood as moist as possible, as deeply into the wood as possible, then you DON'T want it to dry out too fast.

Old time shipwrights used to put oak ribs into steam boxes and cook 'em 'til they were almost like spaghetti. Then they'd bend 'em around rigid forms to the shape of the hull they were framing, and fasten them in place until they cooled and dried. They did the same thing with mahogany planks for the outer skin of the hull.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Leatherneck on June 28, 2010, 07:54:41 PM
Quote
The best way to do that would be to get something very straight and strong, like maybe a hardwood 6x6 of the right length, steam the boards, and clamp them to the straight piece until they dry.  Use a few spacers, so you're actually overbending the warped boards slightly, so that when they spring back on being released, they'll be straight.
Nope. won't work. Once the lignin is dried, the board wants the least-stressful position. As somebody said, it's best to simply replace badly warped fence boards. If you don't want to do that, fasten the board with more hold-down strength like galvanized deck screws in stead of nails.

TC
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Tallpine on June 28, 2010, 09:56:06 PM
I would think the work to straighten the boards would be more costly than just buying new ones.

You could always cut the old boards in short pieces and use them for ... something.
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Scout26 on June 28, 2010, 09:57:28 PM
Call a fencing contractor and be done with it......... ;)
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: Monkeyleg on June 28, 2010, 10:26:01 PM
I wouldn't be talking about straightening boards if I was willing to spend money. ;)
Title: Re: Can warped boards be straightened?
Post by: KD5NRH on June 28, 2010, 11:05:13 PM
Call a fencing contractor and be done with it......... ;)

Foli, epee, or saber?