Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on October 19, 2021, 10:32:19 PM
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I'm not talking about teaching three gun or long-range precision - just enough to make a good group at 50 or 100 yards.
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Young eyes or old eyes? It makes a difference.
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Young eyes or old eyes? It makes a difference.
I'll put you down as "it depends."
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I would say start with the red dot. Just thinking a red dot would be more fun for beginners. Maybe less focus on sight alignment and more focus on trigger pull and safety.
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Iron aperture sights. Gotta start with the fundamentals. Starting at scopes just encourages learning to chase wobbles.
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I wouldn't start a newbie at 50 or 100 yards. Start at 25 yards with iron sights. Don't move out to 50 yards until they can get decent groups at 25 yards.
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I agree with French and Hawkmoon. Jim also isn't wrong, if you can't see your sights, the experience will prove frustrating and unproductive.
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Your basic iron sights. A thing with a notch, and a post. Don't get complicated, and don't go high-tech to start.
Draw a sight picture on a target. Point to the things on the .22 you are using. Go from there.
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I wouldn't start a newbie at 50 or 100 yards. Start at 25 yards with iron sights. Don't move out to 50 yards until they can get decent groups at 25 yards.
No one said to start them at 50 or 100.
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Your basic iron sights. A thing with a notch, and a post. Don't get complicated, and don't go high-tech to start.
Draw a sight picture on a target. Point to the things on the .22 you are using. Go from there.
Diopter irons have better efficacy (circle and post), but yes to all of the above. Learn to walk before you run. Irons before optics.
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No one said to start them at 50 or 100.
Your question certainly implied exactly that.
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Red dot or Eotech is as close to point and click as you get for guns. Personally I’m a big fan of irons but red dot is even easier to use. The caution about wobble chasing is real though. A red dot doesn’t obscure any parts of the target like irons do and newbies who have no gun experience at all seem to really like that aspect.
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If your goal is to help someone to have fun and enjoy shooting, I would say red dot. Irons have their place, but if I just had an afternoon with someone and wanted them to leave enjoying the experience I would give them a .22 with a red dot and fun targets.
Might be a different answer if you are teaching for something else or have a captive audience you are training.
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Iron Patridge-style (square cut rear with square notch, square front sight) for beginners. Probably a red dot for older folk.
Stay away from beads and "scooped-out" rear sights unless they're shooting antiques.
Scopes? I don't know. Depends on the target, the shooter,and how old the scope is. (Older scopes seem to require the shock of recoil to settle in for each adjustment.)
And regardless of sight style, emphasize firing for group, without adjusting for each shot, not for center of bull. That comes later, when you reveal the arcane secrets of minutes of angle and <gasp!> tangents...
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Thinking about it, I'm flippy floppy. Red dots and holos are here to stay, so why not just start them on a single dot? On the other hand, there is something to what Boomhauer said.
If I started someone with iron sights and had them available, it would be circle/post. M1/M14 type sights are some of the best iron sights ever invented, IMO. Super intuitive and almost the iron equivalent of a red dot.
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Red dot.
The most open one you have will make it easier, but any decent 1x red dot will be fine.
they can go back and learn irons later if they want.
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If your goal is to help someone to have fun and enjoy shooting, I would say red dot. Irons have their place, but if I just had an afternoon with someone and wanted them to leave enjoying the experience I would give them a .22 with a red dot and fun targets.
Might be a different answer if you are teaching for something else or have a captive audience you are training.
That is what I was thinking. I would want any shooter to learn iron sights, but starting out with a red dot would be easier to use making it more fun. That is what will bring them back to learn more.
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I voted for fixed-power scope only because you wrote, " just enough to make a good group at 50 or 100 yards." At that distance, a magnified optic is the way to go.
If you were shooting .22s or pistols at close distances, I'd recommend a red dot.
Iron sights are outdated, but still fun to use.
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Thanks for the replies. Some good points made. It seems my question was misunderstood.
If your goal is to help someone to have fun and enjoy shooting, I would say red dot. Irons have their place, but if I just had an afternoon with someone and wanted them to leave enjoying the experience I would give them a .22 with a red dot and fun targets.
Might be a different answer if you are teaching for something else or have a captive audience you are training.
It's kinda the second one. As I said in the poll question, "teaching rifle marksmanship basics to new shooters." That means breath control, sight alignment/sight picture, trigger squeeze, stance, etc. I think that's usually different from taking someone shooting for the first time, or trying to get them interested in shooting. I'm asking about someone already interested, and now they want to learn how to go from barely getting on the paper to getting more respectable groups. Maybe I should have spent more time explaining what I was asking about.
I guess some people are reacting more to the thread title, which is a less specific question. For thread titles, I often sacrifice a little accuracy, in favor of something shorter, and more eye-catching. Sometimes that doesn't work out so well.
Your question certainly implied exactly that.
I mentioned 50 and 100 yards as limits (not as starting points), because I thought that would keep the focus on entry-level marksmanship, and not privilege magnified sights too much over the irons and red dots. I agree that 25 yards is a good place to start with rifles. After that, wouldn't you go farther out, to see if they're really developing the skills of a marksman? It's a rifle, after all.
I hope that clarifies things a little bit.