Author Topic: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage  (Read 9542 times)

MillCreek

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Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« on: September 03, 2017, 05:36:48 PM »
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Fly320s

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 06:56:26 PM »
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

dogmush

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 08:49:38 PM »
Pre marital sex and relationships is a very different thing than actually being in a supportive, healthy marriage. Both can be good, and fun, and healthy, but they aren't really comparable.

The milk being compared is not the same.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 08:50:42 PM »
Pre marital sex and relationships is a very different thing than actually being in a supportive, healthy marriage. Both can be good, and fun, and healthy, but they aren't really comparable.

The milk being compared is not the same.

2% verses Whole.
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just Warren

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 09:20:00 PM »
I don't believe in that homogenized marriage!
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 09:22:32 PM »
I don't believe in that homogenized marriage!

What about all organic and hormone free?
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dogmush

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 09:50:33 PM »
What about all organic and hormone free?

Oh, there's GOING to be hormones.

wmenorr67

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 02:41:46 AM »
Oh, there's GOING to be hormones.

Unless you get a cougar that has already gone through the change.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 04:03:51 AM »
Unless you get a cougar that has already gone through the change.

You've got a lot to learn.
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Mannlicher

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 10:08:52 AM »
God knows marital sex is expensive.  As a wag once said, if it flies, floats or , well you know, you are better off leasing.

T.O.M.

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 10:20:32 AM »
Here's an observation from someone who deals with failing relationships at work, and also does a lot of volunteer work with teens.  First, young people feel no pressure to marry, other than what mommy may put on them.  Living as a couple without marriage is no big deal anymore. So they do.  Second, and how do I put this delicately, self love with internet visual stimulation is so accepted, college kids just don't rush relationships.  We've been doing college tours with my son, and I'm surprised by stores openly displaying aids for such activities.  It's a different world.
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zahc

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 10:38:18 AM »
I think it's more complicated than the article asserts...a large factor is the economic environment, which everyone refuses to acknowledge. Most moral codes are essentially economic, marriage especially, so any analysis should start there.

It's one of the curious inversions of progressivism to talk about rights in terms of groups and collectives, but analyze behaviors in terms of individuals. Hence poverty is always analyzed through case studies of the unfortunate, and case studies of the evil rich, distracting from the broad economic and policy causes such as welfare, inflation, over-regulation, and taxation.

This is an old playbook which is becoming increasingly reminiscent as modern US journalism converges to the Soviet journalism. Step one, avoid drawing attention the economy, or economic suffering. Step two, if you have to talk about it, distract by making it sound like a feature, or making it sound like it's not really a problem. Certainly not a fundamental problem with socialism/progressivism.

Real wages have been stagnant for generations, manufacturing jobs are gone, pensions are gone, and unemployment is high. When young people find it necessary to move regularly just to chase the few decent jobs left, it's not desperation. It's just the millenials are "the go generation" and "don't feel tied down to their hometowns like previous generations".

When the American dream of owning a home and car is out of reach of young people, it's not evidence of an economic crisis. It's just that "young people today are choosing not to own a car" and are "significantly less likely to tie themselves down with home ownership, preferring more flexible living arrangements".

When the average age of female childbirth, and male parenthood, are both at record highs, it's not because young people are graduating with crushing debts that don't actually increase their earning potential, and both of them have to work to make the same standard of living that their parents had with only the man working. It's not any of that. It's just they are choosing to get married later because of changing attitudes about sex and internet porn...not that the willingness to shack up and the porn epidemic are the result of dire prospects for successful marriage.

These aren't the droids you are looking for. Everything is paradise in the Soviet union. American Progressive politics work.



« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 11:41:48 AM by zahc »
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makattak

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 10:47:22 AM »
Here's an observation from someone who deals with failing relationships at work, and also does a lot of volunteer work with teens.  First, young people feel no pressure to marry, other than what mommy may put on them.  Living as a couple without marriage is no big deal anymore. So they do.  Second, and how do I put this delicately, self love with internet visual stimulation is so accepted, college kids just don't rush relationships.  We've been doing college tours with my son, and I'm surprised by stores openly displaying aids for such activities.  It's a different world.

You and others are missing another issue: the costs for marriage have risen and are nearly entirely borne by men. (Owing to the fact as to who is most likely to suffer loss from a divorce, especially an acrimonious one, evidenced by who the majority of divorces are initiated by. )

We've simultaneously devalued marriage and made it more expensive. We've also created completely unrealistic expectations for both sexes that they bring into a marriage.

Disney is of course part of this, but the hook-up culture is as well.

And who is it that suffers the most from all of this? Nope, it's not women, nor is it men. Children are suffering the most. We've moved from a culture that expects a person to accept responsibility and sacrifice in order to provide children with the best possible environment for their upbringing to making EVERYTHING about what the adult wants.

Need to "find yourself"? Drop your spouse.
Get bored with your spouse? Drop him.
Find an upgraded model? Drop your spouse.
Decide that your spouse isn't your soulmate? Go searching.

Our society encourages adults of both sexes to consider that marriage is supposed to be all about what the individual wants. Not about your spouse, not about your children, and not about the family.

Further, our legal system has been set up to make dissolving a marriage as easy as possible for females.* Unsurprisingly, women are responsible for the divorce 2/3 of the time.

We live in a profoundly immature culture.





*Not that men aren't prone to the same stupidity, because they do all of the above as well. It's just that the legal system isn't encouraging these choices for men.
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Sindawe

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 07:10:42 PM »
Quote
Need to "find yourself"? Drop your spouse.
Get bored with your spouse? Drop him.
Find an upgraded model? Drop your spouse.
Decide that your spouse isn't your soulmate? Go searching.

Quoted for truth.  Went through that with my then SO many many years ago.  :old:

Funny now, but about a year into the relationship (both getting ready to start college) I proposed a five year contract to be exclusive while in school.    With the option to renew or formalize via marriage if we both were head over heels with each other.  "Nope, we ARE getting married."

Even funnier, we split up about five years later, dissolving the legal contract of marriage we had at that time.  :facepalm:

I think we as a culture should consider other familial arraignments as options when possible or intended kids are in the mix.  I've always liked the idea of a line marriage as described in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Of course, I've been an unreasonable man... 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2017, 09:06:46 PM »
I think we as a culture should consider other familial arraignments as options when possible or intended kids are in the mix. 


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Fitz

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2017, 08:55:50 PM »
if you want to be married and have children, you should be prepared to stick it out through hard times for the sake of the child. If you aren't doing that, you shouldn't be getting married and having kids.
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Pb

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2017, 09:51:00 AM »
I think makattak is right.  Around 50% of marriages end in divorce, of which 70% are initiated by the wife.  Typically, this ends with the man losing his house and custody of his kids, and paying the woman who divorced him large sums of money for years.

A lot of these young men no doubt saw their fathers put through this.

A lot of men don't want to get married because they have seen marriage turned into a weapon to destroy decent men when the wife gets "unhappy."

dogmush

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2017, 10:01:17 AM »

A lot of men don't want to get married because they have seen marriage turned into a weapon to destroy decent men when the wife gets "unhappy."

While I'm sure that does happen, it the majority of marriage failures I've seen have been contributed to by both parties.  The "guy got screwed by evil wife" meme is popular among guys and their friends, but it's not as common as the men would like you to believe.

makattak

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2017, 10:24:50 AM »
While I'm sure that does happen, it the majority of marriage failures I've seen have been contributed to by both parties.  The "guy got screwed by evil wife" meme is popular among guys and their friends, but it's not as common as the men would like you to believe.

Funny, though. It isn't 50/50 on who files for divorce.

If the fault (as you suggest) is 50/50, but the filings are 70/30... hmmm... let's think about that...
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Ben

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 10:29:58 AM »
While I'm sure that does happen, it the majority of marriage failures I've seen have been contributed to by both parties.  The "guy got screwed by evil wife" meme is popular among guys and their friends, but it's not as common as the men would like you to believe.


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Pb

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2017, 12:07:42 PM »
dogmush, when the wife gets unhappy, the courts almost automatically give her cash and prizes (home, custody of the kids and money) in the divorce.

When men divorce their wives, they lose the house, the kids and lots of money.

Wives who divorce get rewarded.  Men who divorce get punished.

No surprise that 70% of divorces are filed by the wife.

The wife can do this for any reason or no reason.

Marriage has become a "contract" that one party can break for no reason and be rewarded by the courts.  That is sick, and a lot of men don't want to be victimized by it.

MechAg94

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2017, 12:16:12 PM »
I think makattak is right.  Around 50% of marriages end in divorce, of which 70% are initiated by the wife.  Typically, this ends with the man losing his house and custody of his kids, and paying the woman who divorced him large sums of money for years.

A lot of these young men no doubt saw their fathers put through this.

A lot of men don't want to get married because they have seen marriage turned into a weapon to destroy decent men when the wife gets "unhappy."
A person I know has a 30 something son.  His girlfriend got pregnant.  He wants to get married, but she is reluctant.  Apparently, her parents were divorced and she was put through a lot as one of the kids.  His parents have been married for decades. 

My take from that is part of this might be the kids of divorced parents being reluctant to jump into something that made their parents and them unhappy. 
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RevDisk

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2017, 12:21:44 PM »
While I'm sure that does happen, it the majority of marriage failures I've seen have been contributed to by both parties.  The "guy got screwed by evil wife" meme is popular among guys and their friends, but it's not as common as the men would like you to believe.

From personal observation, where the plural of anecdote is not data, it's roughly a 50/50 spit of who I think is probably at fault for the divorce. No, call it closer to 25/25/50. Quarter of the time it's the husband's fault, quarter of time it's the wife, half the time it's bloody well both parties.

Unsurprisingly, ask a bunch of dudes who gets hosed worse in divorces, they'll say men. Ask women, they'll likely say women.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2017, 01:12:12 PM »
A person I know has a 30 something son.  His girlfriend got pregnant.  He wants to get married, but she is reluctant.  Apparently, her parents were divorced and she was put through a lot as one of the kids.  His parents have been married for decades. 

My take from that is part of this might be the kids of divorced parents being reluctant to jump into something that made their parents and them unhappy. 

This is something that I would think to be a major factor in current marriage rates. I don't know anyone who was a child of divorced parents that aren't at least a little squirrelly about the whole concept of marriage.
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dogmush

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Re: Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2017, 02:02:08 PM »
dogmush, when the wife gets unhappy, the courts almost automatically give her cash and prizes (home, custody of the kids and money) in the divorce.



Like Rev said, the plural of anecdote is not data, but at least among my friends (and my soldiers, whose divorce details I get to track to make sure they're doing the right thing) it's not as automatic for the woman as lots of folks seems to think.

If she keeps the house, then he gets half the value (positive or negative) in cash.  Single custody is almost unheard of, and the courts try very hard for 50/50.  If custody is 50/50, there will rarely be child support.  Alimony takes a spouse who never has and/or can not work and has no skills. Assets and debts tend to be split pretty evenly.  Perhaps Florida is on the leading edge of equality in marital law, but I doubt it.  I will say that enforcing a divorce decree can be a challenge, especially if there is a lot of hurt feels, but the decrees themselves are pretty even, from the 15-20 I've had the misfortune to have to look at over the last decade.


Generally speaking talk to anyone that is divorced (male or female) and they will tell you they got screwed by the courts.  If everyone feels screwed, that's a sign of a pretty fair system.