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Author Topic: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison  (Read 4162 times)

Ben

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Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« on: February 18, 2015, 01:42:17 PM »
Well, this has got to suck. From the story, it appears to be a genuine flintlock from the 1700's and not a replica. I keep thinking CA gun laws are whack, but I reckon it's not just us.

Also, what is the purpose of the state running ballistics on the pistol?


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/18/flintlock-from-1700s-could-land-elderly-nj-man-in-prison/
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Scout26

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 02:01:10 PM »
To exonerate Aaron Burr?
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wmenorr67

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 03:10:01 PM »
How do you even run ballistics on something that old?  Is the barrel even rifled?
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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 03:12:07 PM »
Quote from: Ben on February 18, 2015, 01:42:17 PM
Well, this has got to suck. From the story, it appears to be a genuine flintlock from the 1700's and not a replica. I keep thinking CA gun laws are whack, but I reckon it's not just us.

Also, what is the purpose of the state running ballistics on the pistol?


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/18/flintlock-from-1700s-could-land-elderly-nj-man-in-prison/

California at least makes a distinction between modern and antique (pre-1899) firearms.  Apparently NJ does not.

If the poor guy does get convicted, let's pressure Gov. Christie to pardon him.
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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 03:24:20 PM »
Quote from: wmenorr67 on February 18, 2015, 03:10:01 PM
How do you even run ballistics on something that old?  Is the barrel even rifled?

Almost certainly not rifled, the ball would be patched, so even scuffs in the bore wouldn't transfer, and there's no cartridge case nor a firing pin to mark it.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 04:27:28 PM »
Quote from: KD5NRH on February 18, 2015, 03:24:20 PM
Almost certainly not rifled, the ball would be patched, so even scuffs in the bore wouldn't transfer, and there's no cartridge case nor a firing pin to mark it.

My point exactly.
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HankB

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 04:32:23 PM »
We should all be reassured that GOP Gov. Christie is running New Jersey - and is a possible GOP candidate for POTUS.

He'll see proper justice done.

 :facepalm:
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brimic

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 04:42:46 PM »
Hmmm. The man lived and retired in New Jersey, paid taxes to the state, has a pension from the state, voted in the state, he's in part responsible for  the  fascist laws in the sate that have snared many others and/or denied others rights that are common in other states.
I have zero sympathy.
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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 05:28:11 PM »
Run ballistics on it?  Will the lab even know how to fire it?  Or are they just looking to fondle and damage a valuable antique?
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MikeB

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 05:52:20 PM »
Quote from: brimic on February 18, 2015, 04:42:46 PM
Hmmm. The man lived and retired in New Jersey, paid taxes to the state, has a pension from the state, voted in the state, he's in part responsible for  the  fascist laws in the sate that have snared many others and/or denied others rights that are common in other states.
I have zero sympathy.

I was sort of thinking the same, he is a retired teacher so very great likelihood he has been voting for NJ Dems all along. I could be wrong though.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 06:24:51 PM »


1. Did anyone else notice the byline?

2. What is 200+ year old antique pistol doing in a glove compartment?
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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 06:37:22 PM »
Quote from: fistful on February 18, 2015, 06:24:51 PM

1. Did anyone else notice the byline?

2. What is 200+ year old antique pistol doing in a glove compartment?

Thomas Jefferson left it there when he sold the car?
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zxcvbob

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 06:43:30 PM »
Quote from: fistful on February 18, 2015, 06:24:51 PM

1. Did anyone else notice the byline?

2. What is 200+ year old antique pistol doing in a glove compartment?

He said he had just bought it and was taking it home to add to his antiques collection.
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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2015, 07:00:21 PM »
Quote from: Firethorn on February 18, 2015, 05:28:11 PM
Run ballistics on it?  Will the lab even know how to fire it?  Or are they just looking to fondle and damage a valuable antique?

I'd guess that they're required to test every seized firearm.

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zxcvbob

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2015, 08:23:47 PM »
By federal law, it's not a firearm by definition.  Doesn't that preempt the NJ law?  Supremacy Clause, or something?
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brimic

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2015, 08:36:12 PM »
Quote from: zxcvbob on February 18, 2015, 08:23:47 PM
By federal law, it's not a firearm by definition.  Doesn't that preempt the NJ law?  Supremacy Clause, or something?
nope. They are enforcing a New Jersey law. New Jersey can define ananything they wat as a firearm.
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griz

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2015, 11:23:05 PM »
So when an anti-gunner says the 2nd amendment only applies to guns that were common in the 1700s they don't actually mean that you should be allowed to own one?  Maybe it's an assault flintlock so it's more dangerous.
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Scout26

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2015, 08:12:39 AM »
Apparently he didn't get the "STFU" when talking to the police memo.... :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2015, 09:18:47 AM »
As I read the article, I was reminded of a situation I experienced a while back.  My wife was shopping for an antique desk, and I was along for the ride and to carry what she bought.  In one antique shop, they had a few firearms...flintlock and percussion cap.  I was looking and admiring, and talking with the guy working the case where the guns were displayed.  Long story short, he went on to tell me how he was opposed to private gun ownership, thought guns should be only available for hunting and target shooting at clubs where the guns would be stored in vaults and have GPS tracking in them so they couldn't be taken off the property, etc.  When I asked about the guns in the case, his response was something along the lines of "well, not these guns."  Got to wonder if this is another person who supports RKBA, only as far as his personal interests go...
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erictank

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2015, 09:31:18 AM »
Quote from: wmenorr67 on February 18, 2015, 03:10:01 PM
How do you even run ballistics on something that old?  Is the barrel even rifled?

Report I read said it was not.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2015, 12:03:59 PM »
Given this is on a major news feed and pretty much all of the 3400+ comments were of the decidedly whiskey-tango-foxtrot variety, I'm guessing the department involved and more than a few policritters are getting an earful from a rightfully pissed off citizenry. Not to mention the godawful PR in the antiquities community of potentially destroying a nice piece of history.

Brad
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 12:07:09 PM by Brad Johnson »
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wmenorr67

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2015, 01:06:57 PM »
Interesting that the undersheriff/deputy who made the original stop was going to let the guy go, but the sheriff is the one that made the call to be an ass.  Maybe time for a recall election on the sheriff.  At least one of his employees has a brain and integrity.
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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 04:12:16 PM »
Quote from: Brad Johnson on February 19, 2015, 12:03:59 PM
Given this is on a major news feed and pretty much all of the 3400+ comments were of the decidedly whiskey-tango-foxtrot variety, I'm guessing the department involved and more than a few policritters are getting an earful from a rightfully pissed off citizenry. Not to mention the godawful PR in the antiquities community of potentially destroying a nice piece of history.

Brad

Wonder how New Jersey law works.  Here in Ohio, firearms seized in a criminal investigation which results in a conviction are forfeit to the law enforcement agency for destruction, use by the agency, or sale to a licensed dealer if the firearm is deemed to have a sporting use.  At least here, odds are it would be sold and avoid a furnace...
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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 04:15:43 PM »
Quote from: Chris on February 19, 2015, 04:12:16 PM
Wonder how New Jersey law works.  Here in Ohio, firearms seized in a criminal investigation which results in a conviction are forfeit to the law enforcement agency for destruction, use by the agency, or sale to a licensed dealer if the firearm is deemed to have a sporting use.  At least here, odds are it would be sold and avoid a furnace...
Wonder if the sheriff saw it and thought to himself "Gee, what a neat piece of history, I always wanted one of those. Hmmm . . . I wonder if . . . "
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T.O.M.

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Re: Flintlock May Send Man to Prison
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2015, 06:29:24 PM »
Quote from: HankB on February 19, 2015, 04:15:43 PM
Wonder if the sheriff saw it and thought to himself "Gee, what a neat piece of history, I always wanted one of those. Hmmm . . . I wonder if . . . "

Sure that has happened before, maybe even here...
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