Oregon pushes ahead with GPS-based taxing and tracking

[Manedwolf]

Okay. That's more than a bit frightening. Tax, tax, tax...and track while taxing.

http://www.dhonline.com/articles/2008/12/28/news/local/1aaa02_road.txt

Kulongoski to pursue mileage tax
By Hasso Hering
Albany Democrat-Herald

A year ago, the Oregon Department of Transportation announced it had demonstrated that a new way to pay for roads — via a mileage tax and satellite technology — could work.

Now Gov. Ted Kulongoski says he’d like the legislature to take the next step.

As part of a transportation-related bill he has filed for the 2009 legislative session, the governor says he plans to recommend “a path to transition away from the gas tax as the central funding source for transportation.”

What that means is explained on the governor’s website:

“As Oregonians drive less and demand more fuel-efficient vehicles, it is increasingly important that the state find a new way, other than the gas tax, to finance our transportation system.”

According to the policies he has outlined online, Kulongoski proposes to continue the work of the special task force that came up with and tested the idea of a mileage tax to replace the gas tax.

The governor wants the task force “to partner with auto manufacturers to refine technology that would enable Oregonians to pay for the transportation system based on how many miles they drive.”

The online outline adds: “The governor is committed to ensuring that rural Oregon is not adversely affected and that privacy concerns are addressed.”

When the task force’s study and test were in the news in 2006 and 2007, critics worried that the technology could be used to track where vehicles go, not just how far they travel, and that this information would somehow be stored by the government.

In more than one interview with the Democrat-Herald and others, James Whitty, the ODOT official in charge of the project, tried to assure the public that tracking people’s travels was not in the plans.

The task force’s final report came out in November 2007. It was based largely on a field test in which about 300 motorists in the Portland area and two service stations took part over

10 months, ending in March 2007.

A GPS-based system kept track of the in-state mileage driven by the volunteers. When they bought fuel, a device in their vehicles was read, and they paid 1.2 cents a mile and got a refund of the state gas tax of 24 cents a gallon.

The final report detailed the technical aspects of the program. It also stressed the issue of privacy.

“The concept requires no transmission of vehicle travel locations, either in real time or of travel history,” the report said. “Accordingly, no travel location points are stored within the vehicle or transmitted elsewhere. Thus there can be no ‘tracking’ of vehicle movements.”

Also, the report said, under the Oregon concept of the program, “ODOT would have no involvement in developing the on-vehicle devices, installing them in vehicles, maintaining them or having any other access to them except, perhaps, in situations involving tampering or similar fee evasion activities.”

Equipment for the Oregon test was developed at Oregon State University.

Whitty said last year it might take about $20 million to establish that the mileage tax is commercially viable. Eventually, GPS devices would have to start being built into cars, and fueling stations would have to be similarly equipped.

The gas tax would stay in force — Kulongoski has proposed that it be raised 2 cents — for vehicles not equipped to pay the mileage tax.

[MicroBalrog]

Oh, there is no oppression. At all.

[AZRedhawk44]

“The concept requires no transmission of vehicle travel locations, either in real time or of travel history,” the report said. “Accordingly, no travel location points are stored within the vehicle or transmitted elsewhere. Thus there can be no ‘tracking’ of vehicle movements.”

Then there's no reason for GPS in it at all.

Simply read the odometer via the OBD-II system and transmit that.

However... if no tracking of location is going on, then you're paying tax to Oregon for miles driven when outside of Oregon.

Ergo, vehicle tracking is happening.

QED.

[41magsnub]

Maybe the GPS use instead of odometer use is to differentiate between Oregon miles vs. out of state mileage so the tax is fairly applied.  Not that I trust that there will not be a LE back door to track any car.  Nor do I trust that the state would not want to tax all miles on the car regardless of what state it is in.

[HankB]

Sounds like an opportunity for hackers. 

[El Tejon]

Funny, there was a feature on NPR this morning in which Lefties were complaining that the gas tax ($0.18 per gallon, federal) was "not enough" to fund their coming "bridge to nowhere" union wet dreams.

I think we can predict Congress to attempt to chip our cars (as well as us) in the next couple of years.

[AZRedhawk44]

I would install a switched circuit on the GPS.  Put a dummy in there that lists my coordinates as on that island in the middle of Crater Lake that I can turn on on-demand.

Once a year I would accurately transmit my mileage with a single run to the grocery store worth 18,326.8 miles (or whatever), done at mach V.

There's no way I'd let the state track my movements.

[Manedwolf]

Sounds like an opportunity for hackers. 

Oh hell yes, there'd be a bypass within days. I can also honestly say that if they ever tried to do odometer readings for taxes, I'd have a second, messed-with instrument cluster to put in my car before every inspection. I'd have driven not much at all! (If they're recorded on the OBD, that can be tweaked, but mine also records on the digital odometer on the cluster. Cluster replacement is a snap bezel, four screws and one locking connector. You're supposed to have the dealer match old and new if you replace it. Ahem.)

[El Tejon]

There's an island in Crater Lake?!?!

Cool, that would make a great APS League of Evil hideout.

[Nick1911]

I would install a switched circuit on the GPS.  Put a dummy in there that lists my coordinates as on that island in the middle of Crater Lake that I can turn on on-demand.

Once a year I would accurately transmit my mileage with a single run to the grocery store worth 18,326.8 miles (or whatever), done at mach V.

There's no way I'd let the state track my movements.

Smart people can bypass anything.  The question is, will it be worth risking your gun rights and 10 years of federal prison time to save $xxx.xx a year?

[Manedwolf]

Smart people can bypass anything.  The question is, will it be worth risking your gun rights and 10 years of federal prison time to save $xxx.xx a year?

I really think demanding that people put tracking boxes in their cars in some states, including mine and several others, would quite literally be the tea party moment.

As for odometer inspections? Inspection stations vary. The gas station I use completely ignores the absolutely non-CARB-compliant engine modifications and extremely nonstandard HID igniters that were made by Toyota instead. I leveled the cutoff point myself, and the Accord came with the same bounceback housing the Acura TL used for its HIDs, (fits the arc tubes perfectly) but they still would not pass a "That's not standard!" anal retentive sort. As long as the lights work, the OBD registers emissions compliant, they could care less.

[El Tejon]

Inspection stations vary. The gas station I use

Inspection stations???

What the devil is that?  How does that work out there?

[Manedwolf]

Inspection stations???

What the devil is that?  How does that work out there?

Gas stations and garages get certified as inspection stations. You get a sticker once per year to put in the windshield. It's pretty much just lights work, brakes work, parts aren't falling off car, and they plug the OBD into a computer to see if the emissions log is spec.

It's annoying, but it does weed out the three-wheels-and-a-donut smokescreen-trailing "Mexicars" I've seen elsewhere.

[AZRedhawk44]

Smart people can bypass anything.  The question is, will it be worth risking your gun rights and 10 years of federal prison time to save $xxx.xx a year?

Has nothing to do with saving a buck.

I'd log my mileage from Jan1 to Dec31 and represent myself accurately, if that's how we're paying for the roads.

I'm not allowing a tracking system into my car though, that I can't choose to disable.

[castle key]

Not really GPS based taxing, but along the same lines, all new cars are equiped with some pretty high speed computer stuff that controls brakes, airbags, and other stuff. Should you crash your car, significant data can be downloaded from one of these black boxes letting the car maker and law enforcement know lots of cool things about the moment prior to impact.....speed, braking rate, angle of car (such as from turning), and stuff that could impact on your defense should you be sued for negligence.

Don't want LE or manufacturer to download such data??? Easy, disconnect the devices. Asisde from the impact on operations, what you are not told when you buy the car and is burried so deep in the fine print, is that the manufacturer retains ownership of this charming and intrusive little gadget!! You can't D/C it!!

Lovely

[Nick1911]

I'm not allowing a tracking system into my car though, that I can't choose to disable.

Then what, exactly, does one do if it becomes the law of the land?  Risk everything by being non-compliant most the time?  Cease owing a motor vehicle?

[Manedwolf]

Then what, exactly, does one do if it becomes the law of the land?  Risk everything by being non-compliant most the time?  Cease owing a motor vehicle?

Get angry and throw out the bums who voted it into office, and vote in people who will get rid of it. Or take it all the way to the Supreme Court as unconstitutional.

[Standing Wolf]

I really think demanding that people put tracking boxes in their cars in some states, including mine and several others, would quite literally be the tea party moment.

Only if government takes away football and "reality" shows on the idiot box.

[taurusowner]

There will be no tea party moment in the US as it is, regardless of how extreme the stimulus.  The attitude of most Americans is to shun away from the hardship and responsibility that protecting rights requires at all costs.  Something like a nuclear war or global famine that kills off a lot of the population and forces the rest to work hard to survive is the only real way to bring back the appreciation for hardship and self reliance.  But that would change not just the US, but the world.  So there will be no tea party with the US as we are right now.

[Paragon]

I fail to see how this could even claim to be accurate.  What about the(hypothetical) vehicle I have tagged, but tow around most of the time and use off-road?  Would I be charged for mileage on dirt trails? 

In all seriousness, I'd have that device disabled in no time.  There's no way to implement a tamperproof device that has to be installed by people at inspection stations or DMVs.  It would take me no time to locate and sever the power connection to the GPS device.  I'd even put a switch on and turn it on for a mile or two on my way to the station. 

[El Tejon]

*Warning, irony warning* 

Just back from court on a probation violation.  The violation:  tampering with House Arrest monitoring equipment.

It's like everyone in Oregon is born on House Arrest.

[41magsnub]

I fail to see how this could even claim to be accurate.  What about the(hypothetical) vehicle I have tagged, but tow around most of the time and use off-road?  Would I be charged for mileage on dirt trails? 

In all seriousness, I'd have that device disabled in no time.  There's no way to implement a tamperproof device that has to be installed by people at inspection stations or DMVs.  It would take me no time to locate and sever the power connection to the GPS device.  I'd even put a switch on and turn it on for a mile or two on my way to the station. 

One would presume that the GPS is only active while the engine is running unless the state wants to start providing free jump start service.

[charby]

Just cover the transponder with it's own tin foil hat.

[RevDisk]

Sounds like an opportunity for hackers. 

Pfft.  Yea, it's called "wrap the damn GPS antenna in something that blocks the signal". 

Preferably multiple layers of grounded conductive foil alternated with something nice and ferrite.  Grounded, people, GROUNDED!   No ungrounded tin foil.

[gunsmith]

if it passes ( I doubt it will )
expect neighboring states to get upswing in car registration