Exec Privledge for Fast and Furious

[HankB]

OK, the House committee voted to find Holder in contempt.

Now it has to be submitted to the full House for a vote.

Then what?

Trial? By who? Or is a contempt citation by the full House sufficient, just like a judge's contempt citation doesn't require a trial?

Is there any chance - even in theory - that we'll see Holder in an orange jumpsuit doing a perp walk, and what will it take to get there?

[AmbulanceDriver]

OK, the House committee voted to find Holder in contempt.

Now it has to be submitted to the full House for a vote.

Then what?

Trial? By who? Or is a contempt citation by the full House sufficient, just like a judge's contempt citation doesn't require a trial?

Is there any chance - even in theory - that we'll see Holder in an orange jumpsuit doing a perp walk, and what will it take to get there?

I dunno, but I'd pay money to see that.....

[zxcvbob]

Two interesting possibilities in theory.  (the second is the more interesting IMHO)

1) the House impeaches Holder and send him over to the Senate for prosecution.

2) they send the Sergeant at Arms, perhaps accompanied by the Capitol Police, to arrest Holder and lock him up on *civil* contempt charges.  There he sits until Issa is satisfied that he has fully complied with the subpoena, or until Congress adjourns, whichever occurs first (it would be the adjournment)

Of course I predict that nothing will happen except Obama and Holder accuse the Republicans of being racists.

[gunsmith]

AAaarrRRRrrGGggghHHhh!!!

So dang annoying!!!

The media will cover up for their hero, hoping the scandal wont be talked about until after B.O is reelected.
( watergate story broke before the election too)
Hopefully enough of us can speak up so history doesn't repeat it self!

[zxcvbob]

I just had an evil tho't.  
Remember about a year ago when Obama accidentally said that Holder didn't know anything about Fast and Furious -- and the implications of that statement (how does Obama *know* that Holder doesn't know.)  Now Obama invokes executive privilege, which shatters his plausible deniability (have you noticed how Hillary has kept her mouth shut?  She's not as arrogant and narcissistic as O and her deniability is still intact)

Issa should approach Holder about testifying against the president and try to pin the whole thing on him.  

[brimic]

Issa should approach Holder about testifying against the president and try to pin the whole thing on him. 

That would be one way to crack that nut, but there is enough dirt on both Obama and Holder to put them both in prison for a long, long time. Obama has everything over Holder, which is why Holder isn't going to appoint a special prosecutor over the classified secrets Obama leaked.

An AG with any shred of integrity would already have appointed a special prosecutor, this is why Obama can't allow Holder to be removed and replaced with someone else.

[Scout26]

Kobiashi Maru Mr. President.

Except for the part about the press covering for both of them (Obama and Holder).

[zxcvbob]

Gordon: "Disgraceful!"
James: "Disgusting!"
Henry: "Despicable!"

[Azrael256]

Did...

Did you just quote Thomas?

[zxcvbob]

It seemed appropriate 

[vaskidmark]

Just to give them a chance to amend and revise their statements -  could DOJ/POTUS get away with not turning over documents if they cited the Separation of Powers clause?

Oh, heck!  Someone call them up and suggest they try it.  But don't tell them how to Google Nixon (Watergate), Clinton, or Johnson - who all tried and lost.  K?

stay safe.

[Ron]

It will all come out.

They are just delaying to try and get past the election.

[Jamisjockey]

Two topics discussing exact same thing, merged.

[Tallpine]

Two topics discussing exact same thing, merged.

No wonder "First Unread Post" was so confused 

[brimic]

Gordon: "Disgraceful!"
James: "Disgusting!"
Henry: "Despicable!"

Coffee ejected from my nose.

[Perd Hapley]

Did everybody hear Nancy Pelosi's take on this? "Voter suppression"? You mean, like when some alien cancels out my legitimate vote, since he wasn't asked for ID?

[AJ Dual]

Except for the part about the press covering for both of them (Obama and Holder).

I don't disagree. I just meant in terms of the original goal of creating a "Reichstag fire" for gun control, and that Obama was put in an no-win situation.

No exec priv for Holder, and the dirty laundry is aired. Grants exec priv to Holder, and the guilt by association factor is immense.  I never meant that it was possible for a racial minority Democrat to actually go down Nixon-style over anything short of murder... of puppies... on live TV...

Although, as to the media... If the MSM decides in its collective consciousness that "he won't win anyway", there's a chance someone's aspirations to be the next Woodward & Bernstein might be enough to make them overcome their nominal ingrained liberal bias.

[RevDisk]

Did a bit more research...   

Ye gods.  ATF brass, DOJ and White House intimidation of whistle blowers, reporters and agents. The Aug 15 2011 bribe to Mexico of $500m, laundered through Merida Initiative, if Mexico STFU. Hell, the transcripts of Acting Director Melson testifying before Congress alone are downright disturbing. Apparently ATF agents were supposed to take the fall for the DOJ, according to Melson who has since been reassigned to the DOJ.

according to July 26 2011 Oversight Committee testimony by ATF Attaches to Mexico, they were specifically ordered not to inform the Mexican government and keep MX officials in the dark. It was not a failure to notify re F&F, it was intentional. According to the personnel who implemented it, Agents Darren Gil and Carlos Canino. There is an difference between failure to notify, and intentionally smuggling weapons into a foreign country while intentionally making false statements to said foreign government.

Holder likely committed perjury re when he was notified about F&F, and possibly who authorized what. Napolitano also likely committed perjury regarding other agencies involvement in F&F. That is why Obama clamped down on them at Holder's request, and bloody quickly. Minimum of two cabinet members would face perjury charges, and gods alone know what other lawsuits and criminal charges. In addition, the DOJ IG has a report ready to lay the blame solely on the BATFE, and call it a rogue operation strictly by BATFE personnel. This is to intentionally ignore DOJ, Border Customs, Immigration, DEA, FBI, etc were part of the task force involved...

It physically pains me to say this... but... a lot low level ATF agents are the heroes here. They expressed their doubts, leaked information to the proper authority to defy the DOJ gag orders, risked their careers and their lives. Several have also been crucified by testifying before Congress in defiance of the DOJ gag order.

The other heroes are gun dealers and gun bloggers. The gun dealers for thankfully retaining evidence that the BATFE used coercion to force them to make illegal transactions, and the gun bloggers for actually getting the word out.

The "good" news is, worst case.  The documents are blocked, the Congressional investigation is shut down by sympathetic Republicans, and the coverup is more or less successful.  The BATFE is going to slapped down hard. They are the official fall guy if the DOJ successfully manages to block the release of those documents. If Obama wins a second term, he will not be touching gun control with a ten foot pole, because it would restart investigation into the DOJ's role in F&F.

The best case is DOJ officials are sent to prison for numerous crimes, including accessory to several hundred murders, violating international arms trafficking laws, perjury, obstruction of justice, etc. BATFE is also sharply restricted.


If this actually came out in the news, it'd make Watergate look like a picnic.

[Jamisjockey]

More fuel to the fire.  This is a repeat of the Bush era "Wide Reciever", which was recognized as a failure and shut down.  So this administration looked at a failed operation, restarted it, tried to hide it from the public and the Mexicans. 
I love the blame bush aspect, when in fact this adminstration is repeatedly doing things that the bush administration tried. 

[makattak]

If this actually came out in the news, it'd make Watergate look like a picnic.

As has been noted many times: no one died as a result of Watergate. That ALONE should have the press digging into and publicizing this scandal. Imagine the ratings from that, government cover-up of operation that aided criminals in the murder of two law enforcement agents and hundreds (or more) of Mexicans.

Strangely they have no interest at all. Funny that.

[zxcvbob]

Best case (fantasy) IMHO is Clinton is forced to resign (she's the only one smart enough to maintain plausible deniability; Obama had it and threw it away), and Obama, Holder, Napolitano, and a few other senior DOJ and ATF officials are lead away in handcuffs -- and Holder eventually gets the death penalty.  It wouldn't hurt my feelings too much if Alberto Gonzales ended up in prison for a year or two also.  Joe Biden is left scratching his head wondering WTF happened.    

Ultimately I don't think anything will happen except the Oversight Committee republicans, and Issa in particular, will be branded as "racists".

[TommyGunn]

More fuel to the fire.  This is a repeat of the Bush era "Wide Reciever", which was recognized as a failure and shut down.  So this administration looked at a failed operation, restarted it, tried to hide it from the public and the Mexicans.  
I love the blame bush aspect, when in fact this adminstration is repeatedly doing things that the bush administration tried.  

I keep hearing this. It isn't exactly true.  Under wide receiver, Mexican officials were in on it and cooperated.  The guns were actually tracked via electronic beepers installed in the guns.  Neither these two circumstances were even attempted by Eric the WithHolder's F&F team.
Wide Receiver did fail of course; that much is true.  The cartel critters discovered they were being tracked by aircraft and drove around in circles until the aircraft had to return for refueling.  Apparantly Bush's Men From UNCLE did not anticipate this by handing off the recon to a fully fieled replacement aircraft.
The above is why I will never believe that FAST & FURIOUS was never anything other than attempt to glean support for another round of gun control laws.
And that F&F is another homage to Einstein's old warning that "the definition of insanity is to try the same thing over again expecting different results."  

[SADShooter]

But when you believe you are both smarter and justified, you just know you'll get it right.

[Jamisjockey]

I keep hearing this. It isn't exactly true.  Under wide receiver, Mexican officials were in on it and cooperated.  The guns were actually tracked via electronic beepers installed in the guns.  Neither these two circumstances were even attempted by Eric the WithHolder's F&F team.
Wide Receiver did fail of course; that much is true.  The cartel critters discovered they were being tracked by aircraft and drove around in circles until the aircraft had to return for refueling.  Apparantly Shrubbie's Men From UNCLE did not anticipate this by handing off the recon to a fully fieled replacement aircraft.
The above is why I will never believe that FAST & FURIOUS was never anything other than attempt to glean support for another round of gun control laws.
And that F&F is another homage to Einstein's old warning that "the definition of insanity is to try the same thing over again expecting different results."  

Well no *expletive deleted*it man.  It wasnt an accusatory post.  I skipped over all the details on wide reciever because i didnt feel like hammering out a long post.
But it did fail. And repeating it was stupid to boot.

[AJ Dual]

The "good" news is, worst case.  The documents are blocked, the Congressional investigation is shut down by sympathetic Republicans, and the coverup is more or less successful.  The BATFE is going to slapped down hard. They are the official fall guy if the DOJ successfully manages to block the release of those documents. If Obama wins a second term, he will not be touching gun control with a ten foot pole, because it would restart investigation into the DOJ's role in F&F.

The best case is DOJ officials are sent to prison for numerous crimes, including accessory to several hundred murders, violating international arms trafficking laws, perjury, obstruction of justice, etc. BATFE is also sharply restricted.

That's my thoughts on this. In the worst-case scenario where they all "get away with it", we still more or less "won", in that we discovered and stopped the false-flag operation designed to make a big case against RKBA. And those that tried will be terrified to poke the bear further.

That they'll likely mostly get away with this is sad and effed-up, but it's sad and effed-up in ways America already IS sad and effed-up, if you know what I mean.