Author Topic: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...  (Read 10927 times)

Manedwolf

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Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« on: March 03, 2009, 04:35:41 PM »
Today, meeting with Brown.

Quote
And, you know, the stock market is sort of like a tracking poll in politics. You know, it bobs up and down day to day.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/03/AR2009030301936.html

Also today.

Quote
S&P finishes below 700 for the first time since October 1996



Is this ship here "bobbing up and down", Obama?



Maybe you should put more load on it by raising capital gains taxes, Obama? It can handle it...right?

Is this amateur hour, or actually deliberate? I'm not sure.

ilbob

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2009, 04:37:56 PM »
I doubt there will be a whole lot of capital gains to be taxing anytime soon.
bob

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LibertarianFTW

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2009, 04:41:21 PM »
Quote
I doubt there will be a whole lot of capital gains to be taxing anytime soon.

I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there that have been in a short position since this all started.

longeyes

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2009, 04:52:51 PM »
Obama likes a sinking market.  The Underclass doesn't own stocks.  His vision of economics is to punish the productive for their sins.  The War on Terror has been replaced with a War on Capital.
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Werewolf

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2009, 05:03:58 PM »
I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there that have been in a short position since this all started.

Yeah...

And most of 'em have the title of The Honorable Mr or Ms and a DC address.
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El Tejon

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2009, 05:06:17 PM »
It is deliberate.

I know you've read the Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.  Read it again this weekend, Mane.  It all makes sense now. =D
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txgho1911

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2009, 05:26:53 PM »
Where is that El Tejon.

Looks like the markets are going through the motions of strangulation and this admin will look on out of some morbid curiosity. Like no matter what the world and economy actually do his plan is moving forward.
socialnewswatchDOTcom instead of Drudge

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2009, 05:33:26 PM »
I can't believe I'm going to do this... but...

Maned, how can you rail against this:
Quote from: Obama
And, you know, the stock market is sort of like a tracking poll in politics. You know, it bobs up and down day to day. And if you spend all your time worrying about that, then you're probably going to get the long-term strategy wrong.

Now, having said that, the banking system has been dealt a heavy blow. It has to do with many of the things that Prime Minister Brown alluded to: lax regulation, massive over-leverage, huge systemic risks taken by unregulated institutions, as well as regulated institutions.

And so there are a lot of losses that are working their way through the system. And it's not surprising that the market is hurting as a consequence. You know, in fact -- you know, I think what we're seeing is that, as people absorb the depths of the problem that existed in the banking system, as well as the international ramifications of it, that, you know, there's going to be a natural reaction.

OBAMA: On the other hand, what you're now seeing is -- is profit and earning ratios are starting to get to the point where buying stocks is a potentially good deal if you've got a long-term perspective on it. I think that consumer confidence, as they see the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act taking root, businesses are starting to see opportunities for investment and potential hiring.

When you have consistently crowed at the top of your lungs about the overinflated markets, most particularly the housing market?

The systemic lies and misrepresentations of imaginary wealth are steaming to the surface and disappearing, leaving behind the true measure of our country.

Make no mistake:  I don't support increases on Capital Gains, or arbitrary props on housing values.  I want the market to recover, not to continue to slip under the waves.

But I think you had a bit of a malicious search for a word-bite when you opened this thread.

Yick, I hate to say it, but there is a kernel of truth in Obama's mad ramblings.  When you strip of the socialist Alinsky trappings and examine some of his policies, they make sense (except capgains, guns, health care and about 83% of his core platform).  I'll be happy to see him go as a 1 term wonder, or even earlier if possible, but I actually consider this market correction to be a Good ThingTM.

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wquay

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2009, 07:43:27 PM »
AZRedhawk44, agreeing with Obama??!!

*steps away from the computer to go ice skating in hell*

RevDisk

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2009, 08:04:35 PM »
AZRedhawk44, agreeing with Obama??!!

*steps away from the computer to go ice skating in hell*

I also agree with Obama on the market correction being a long term good thing.  Anyone who took one glance at housing prices from the mid-90's to the mid-00's could tell you that.

I however do not think Obama particularly cares that it is a good thing.  His socialism is turning a normal market correction into a nightmare by responding to correction with insane amounts of entirely counterproductive spending instead of focusing on job growth.  Whether it is a product of incompotence or maliciousness is a matter of debate.  Personally, I have not made up my mind yet.  I'm still reeling from the trillions of dollars in debt (plus interest) that I and others my age will be forced into paying off for the rest of my natural life.
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2009, 08:07:26 PM »
But there is also the component of the stock market that represents hope for the future.  You don't invest money if you think the market may go down even further or if you are afraid Obama will wreck things further. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

makattak

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2009, 08:27:56 PM »
The correction was a very good thing.

I've said that for some time.

At this point, though- the economy should have actually taken all its lumps from mal-investment. (And somehow we are conveniently ignoring those government policies that encouraged it).

NOW, the economy is responding to what the government is doing:

Here's one of the strange characteristics of markets: good things that the government does (less intrusion, less taxes, etc...) will have a much slower effect on the markets as individuals still are unsure as to who will benefit the most. As such, investment and recovery will occur as people realize where the best investments are.

Bad things the government does (more intrusion, more taxes) have a extremely quick effect on the market: people know EVERYONE will be hurt, even though some will be hurt more than others. WORST OF ALL, is when people do not know what the rules of the game will be. Uncertainty is the absolute worst thing for a market.

People won't invest when they don't know what's going to happen: will they be able to keep their earnings? will they be able to recover investments, even at a loss? (Foreclosure).

People don't know- is it any wonder banks don't want to lend?

Edit:

I just got smacked in the face with that: Banks don't want to lend!

I have taught this enough, I should recognize one of the symptoms of a major financial crisis (it's not a sufficient condition, merely necessary).

Why don't banks, who statistically have the safest investments (their loans), want to invest? Uncertainty. Everything the government has done has been to encourage uncertainty lately.

Requiring them to lend is a monumentally bad idea as well.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 08:31:49 PM by makattak »
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

longeyes

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2009, 08:40:21 PM »
The economy definitely needs to drain the "funny money" out of the system, and the stock market is going to reflect that with a correction.

But I believe what we are seeing is not just a normal deflation of overheated prices and excess valuations but a graphic and dramatic image of Capitalism Itself Under Mortal Attack.

This is not a war on excessive easy credit and profligate money supply but a war on capital and capitalism itself.  The market recognizes that this is something New and Different, not a correction per se but a new--and unwelcome--era of the politicization of financial markets altogether.


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grampster

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2009, 08:45:35 PM »
"At this point, though- the economy should have actually taken all its lumps from mal-investment. (And somehow we are conveniently ignoring those government policies that encouraged it)."

No!  We are not ignoring it.  The MSM is ignoring it.  The blame bag has several occupants.  MSM drags all but one out of the bag.

Do you actually believe that Obama would have won the election and reinforced the D majority in the House if the MSM had laid out all of the facts about the economy?  Maybe, maybe not.  There were R hacks with their fingers in the pie in DC as well.  But the major point about all of this is who enabled the robber barons.

Many say that blame doesn't change reality; that we need to move on.  But having Americans understanding the whole picture  may certainly impact who does what moving forward.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2009, 10:27:16 PM »

Is this amateur hour, or actually deliberate? I'm not sure.
Deliberate.

Nick1911

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2009, 10:58:40 PM »
Deliberate.

Based on the premise that it's very unlikely one would preform all of the completely wrong actions unintentionally?

wquay

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2009, 12:38:14 AM »
I just got smacked in the face with that: Banks don't want to lend!

I have taught this enough, I should recognize one of the symptoms of a major financial crisis (it's not a sufficient condition, merely necessary).

Why don't banks, who statistically have the safest investments (their loans), want to invest? Uncertainty. Everything the government has done has been to encourage uncertainty lately.

Requiring them to lend is a monumentally bad idea as well.

Most of the consumer "credit crisis" is just a return to sane and normal lending practices. Credit is out there. I was approved for an auto loan last month. My grandmother listens to some of the hysteria about high interest rates and down payments for real estate, and just says those were the terms for their mortgage 30 years ago.

HankB

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2009, 08:50:37 AM »
Quote
When you strip of the socialist Alinsky trappings and examine some of his policies, they make sense (except capgains, guns, health care and about 83% of his core platform).
It's still very early in the Barack Hussein Obama administration, but I'm beginning to think that when he actually gets something right, it's "broken clock" syndrome . . . you know, a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day . . .  :rolleyes:

Otherwise, he's either stupid, malicious, or the most highly placed Fifth Columnist we've ever seen.
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longeyes

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2009, 11:13:32 AM »
What matters is his intent, and his intent is to make us all slaves of a vast government bureaucracy.

That there will be adventitious plusses to his policies goes without saying.  He may well make a few trains run on time, but they will be run by serfs and ridden by serfs.
"Domari nolo."

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El Tejon

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2009, 11:20:21 AM »
long, it's what his boss and field training officer, Rich Daley (and his daddy), did in Chicago:  put the entire city on the payroll to ensure political power. 

Obama is doing the same thing, but on a larger scale. =D
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longeyes

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2009, 11:29:06 AM »
And in visiting Chicago (I was born there and have family there still and used to go there on business) I always appreciated the fact that the city was cleaner than L.A.  And the els were great fun for an Angeleno. :)   
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

longeyes

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2009, 11:36:21 AM »
The following bit of advice to our new President from Victor Davis Hanson is, as far as I'm concerned, about as good as it gets--sober, sane, reasoned, and anything but hysterical:

The Great Divider?

Posted By Victor Davis Hanson On March 2, 2009 @ 8:01 pm In Uncategorized | 76 Comments

Do As I Say­Not As I Do?

I confess I did not believe Barack Obama entirely during the campaign when he bragged on working across the aisle and championing bipartisanship.

You see, as in the case of any other politician, one must look to what he does­and has done­not what he says for election advantage.

And in the case of Sen. Obama, in his nascent career in the Senate, he had already compiled the most partisan record of any Democratic Senator. He had attended religiously one of the most racially divisive and extremist churches in the country. His Chicago friends were not moderates. His campaigns for state legislature, the House and the Senate were hard-ball, no-prisoner affairs of personal destruction, even by Chicago standards. Campaign references to reparations, gun- and bible-clingers, and Rev. Wright’s wisdom were not words of healing.

In short, while the rhetoric was often inspirational, I found no real reason then­or now­to believe that Barack Obama wishes to be a uniter. And nothing in his first five weeks of governance has disabused me of that first tough impression.

Nevertheless, here are five modest recommendations that he might adopt if he were really interested in bringing the country together.

1) Forget talk radio. During the campaign, President Obama, you went after Sean Hannity on numerous occasions­which are recycled ad nauseam almost daily as sound-bites on his radio program. Once in office, both you and your staff have zeroed in on Rush Limbaugh by name. But Presidential candidates and elected Presidents must seem above the fray, and not descend into tit-for-tat with media celebrities. There is a reason why even your closest associates have ceased calling you Barack and now quite properly address you as “Mr. President”­and it is not due to your persistence in demonizing talk radio.

Did George Bush go after Bill Maher or Air American or Keith Olbermann when almost daily they slandered his character? Did he serially evoke Michael Moore? To have done so by name, would have demeaned his office. Worry about refuting conservative ideas, and governing the country, rather than dueling over the airways with those who get paid for only that. The country wanted a Lincoln, not another Nixon going after Dan Rather at a press conference. So far your administration resembles the latter, not the former.

2) Forget about George Bush. We got the message already that he is near satanic, you angelic. Yet even in your inauguration speech, you could not leave well enough alone, and so once again went after a predecessor who won two elections, and so far has been circumspect in his criticism of your own brief tenure. Even ex-Presidents­cf. Jimmy Carter’s self-serving ankle-biting and Bill Clinton contorted snipes­reduce the office when they engage in schoolyard “they did it, not me” finger-pointing.

Again, in your first address to the nation, you went out swinging: “As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals.” But President Bush never set up such a Manichean either/or situation, as you yourself must accept, when you embraced his protocols on FISA, the Patriotic Act, the Bush-Petraeus Iraq withdrawal plan, and kept rendition, and so far have not quite closed Guantanamo.

And there was more still in that address: “A surplus became an excuse to transfer wealth to the wealthy instead of an opportunity to invest in our future. . .Regulations were gutted for the sake of a quick profit at the expense of a healthy market.”

But Mr. President, deficits arose from out-of-control spending, inasmuch as the Bush tax cuts resulted in increased revenue. It is fair to fault the past eight years of profligate spending, but when you engage in such demagoguery, the American people can detect your subtext: “I won’t criticize Bush’s spending because I found it not enough and will trump it; I will criticize his tax cuts, since I want to make the wealthier pay for my even greater borrowing.”

Cutting taxes on everyone who pays them is not transferring wealth, unless you believe that one’s own income belongs to the government in the first place. Under Bush, nearly 50% of the tax filers for the first time paid no income tax at all­hardly a transfer of wealth.

As far as “gutting” regulations go, I don’t think you wish to go there­given the careers of Franklin Rains, a disgraced Jim Johnson (of your recent hire), Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd, who not only really did gut regulations that were at the center of the financial meltdown, but profited from such complicit laxity.

3) Drop the messianic style. The campaign is over. The Victory Column and Parthenon facades belong to last summer. Remember, it’s hard finding elites to serve in government that are not tainted. You yourself discovered that depressing fact when you nominated tax-dodgers and lobbyists to your own cabinet. Not only did you have far more trouble on such ethical fronts than did Bush in his first month of nominations, but you suffered the additional wage of hypocrisy after adopting the prophetic rhetoric about your own virtue. 2012 will come soon enough without vero possumus at every turn.

4) Enough of the evil “rich.” We’ve heard now about the proverbial jets, parties, and ‘they want us to eat cake’ rhetoric that is approaching the sloganeering of the French Revolution. No one likes a Bernie Madoff, or supports AIG and Citicorp execs wanting federal subsidies to cover their lavish lifestyles.

But a little humility is in order: the problem is not just Richard Fuld at a bankrupt Lehman Brothers, but also Clintonites like Robert Rubin at Citicorp, and liberals at Freddie and Fannie who took millions while destroying the financial integrity of hallowed institutions.

A William Jefferson, Charles Rangel, or John Murtha is an advertisement for ethical impropriety. Nancy Pelosi’s private jet is as worrisome as those of the Big Three auto execs now on public assistance; both Ms. Pelosi and the car CEOs get federal monies and preside over bankrupt entities­and fly in class.

You are our President; so, please, begin seeing greed as an equal opportunity vice that infects liberal and conservatives alike­and anyone else with all too human frailties. If anything, the liberal egalitarian suffers the additional wage of hypocrisy for engaging in Rangelesque schemes or Robert Rubin ‘me-first’ bonuses­in the same manner conservatives do when caught with women or drugs after boasting of the need for old-time morality.

5) Stop the dissimulation. Your plan might work for a while given the incineration of trillions in stock and home equity and the need for replacement cash, but its revenue-raising component is not just aimed at the miniscule number of “rich”, which you imply to the American people are flying the skies of America in private jets while being unpatriotic in avoiding taxes and violating regulations.

In fact, for your plan to succeed, you must go after the upper, upper middle-class, those making between $250,000 and $600,000 who are restaurant owners, home builders, labor contactors, architects, surgeons, engineers, hospital executives, college administrators, Ivy-League law professors, and many dentists.

These households are wealthy, yes; but they don’t own or even fly on $50 million private jets or host private Super Bowl parties. Their income is all reported, and with such good salaries come high insurance and, in the case of business, constant reinvestment and expensive inventories. They are not greedy, but the bulwark of the United States’ productive classes who in aggregate pay over 40% of the collective income taxes, and provide most of the jobs in the country. Under your plan many in these high-tax states will pay nearly 70% of their incomes in FICA, Medicare, federal income, and state income taxes. Why gratuitously mislead the American people that those for whom you will lift FICA ceilings or up their IRS bites to 40% are in any way synonymous with the super-rich? Remember the very, very wealthy voted overwhelmingly in your favor precisely because their riches gave them immunity from high taxes, and in many cases they were far removed from the everyday risk and worry of owning a hardware store or trying to keep together a family-owned construction firm. George Clooney is a world away from a paving contractor, just as making $400,000 a year on call 24/7 is not quite making $40 million investing or $2 million for a cameo.

So please no more intellectual dishonesty, Mr. President. Those in great numbers who will pay your higher taxes are not really the rarer Warren Buffets, Bill Gateses, Diane Feinsteins, Teresa Heinz Kerrys, Sean Penns, George Soroses, Oprah Winfreys, or Tiger Woodses, whose mega-wealth really does result in private jet rides, and yet exempts them from worries that increased taxes might wreck their small businesses.

A final note. You are engaged on a vast revolutionary agenda, one that if successful will create a high-tax, big government, large entitlement, UN-centered, and European-emulating country, far different from America of the past. Given your political skills and the current economic crisis, you, as FDR once did, may well pull it off.

Such radical transformation ipso facto creates winners and losers and means radical readjustments that stir passions. But the challenge of a President is to show empathy for those you must target, and some sensitivity to counter-arguments made from good intentions and sound logic.

Instead, you are beginning to create an ‘us/them’ climate of increasing passionate intensity, and unleashing zeal that cannot be healthy for the country. So far your soaring rhetoric, untraditional background, and the good will of the American people have mitigated such extremism as your Attorney General calling the nation collective “cowards” or your own serial invective again “the rich,” “bankers” and Rush Limbaugh.

But there will come a time, when you will rue the politics of class warfare and the rhetoric of the demagogue­and may find the very intensities that you are unleashing for political advantage now, later on will be precisely those that you most regret that even you cannot control.

So a little less ‘Bush did it’ or Rush this and Sean that, and a little more of the need of all Americans to debate in calm and respect dissension in these times of uncertainty in which no one has all the answers.

Article printed from Works and Days: http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson

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"Domari nolo."

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Molon Labe.

HankB

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2009, 11:56:16 AM »
And in visiting Chicago (I was born there and have family there still and used to go there on business) I always appreciated the fact that the city was cleaner than L.A.  And the els were great fun for an Angeleno. :)   
I, too, grew up in Chicago, and visited there late last year. (I haven't ridden the el for something over 25 years - even 'way back then it was getting nasty.) My impression was that Chicago had become crowded and dirty since I left. If it looks cleaner than L.A. . . . that latter city must be a real cesspool.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

longeyes

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2009, 12:06:17 PM »
I haven't been back to Chicago in some years now, I admit, so these are memories of ten years ago or more.  I wouldn't call L.A., even the "good areas" exceptionally well-kept compared to other places I've seen, and some parts of it are now mighty grubby.  Hollywood would be a perfect example of that; not exactly fantasy material.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

MechAg94

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Re: Obama demonstrates his grasp of the situation once more...
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2009, 08:55:41 PM »
longeyes posts bothers me a bit also because many of the conservatives I see are very fickle about who they will support.  I think the Obama team will be going full bore on the personal destruction angle so I hope no one is thinking their candidate must be perfect because they won't be by the time of the next election.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge