Author Topic: Where Are We Headed, and Why?  (Read 7450 times)

S. Williamson

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Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« on: March 23, 2008, 05:46:43 AM »
Gun-control groups.  More advanced technology.  Proliferation of pornography.  Eco-friendly green advancement.  Socialistic government.  Space exploration.  Partially hydrogenated soybean oil and high fructose corn syrup.  Apathy.  Antioxidants, electrolytes, natural spring water.  Dianetics.  Political correctness.  Racism.

If the opposition (I don't want to use labels of any particular groups, as there are so many) wins has their way, what will happen?   
What is the future of mankind? 
Is it necessarily such a bad thing?  And if so, why?

Feel free to vent.  I think I know some answers, but not all. 

I want to hear honest opinions.  And, for this thread at least, respect each other by not picking apart someone's dystopian vision

This is a brainstorming exercise, and everyone is equal.  All opinions are equal. 

I don't want a pissing match between members.  I want to know what you think will happen.
Quote
"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
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Bigjake

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 06:35:25 AM »
Less free speech, under the guise of political correctness. "You can't say THAT, it offends me!"

More health regulations banning or controlling "bad food", ala the trans fat pandemic.

Less privacy, more .Gov cameras EVERYWHERE. (that's getting old already)

More "Green" bullshit leading to higher costs on everything, especially fuel.

Iraq a loss.  I don't want to belittle the average Iraqi, but I'm not sure if they'll step up to the plate if we cut and run, more than likely the place will just deteriorate into chaos and civil war.  I could be wrong though.

The U.S.A. as we know it diluted culturally to a southern "Canada Lite", except our second language will be Spanish instead of French, and California will be our Quebec.

Werewolf

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 06:43:35 AM »
Think Judge Dred without the good ending...
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oldfart

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 08:13:09 AM »
"Where are we headed?"

I think an inspection of the handbasket we're in will give you a clue.

S. Williamson

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 08:33:48 AM »
Specifics, please.
Quote
"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
-Douglas Adams

S. Williamson

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 04:42:54 PM »
... strange...

Thought I would've had more replies than this...  sad
Quote
"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
-Douglas Adams

Bigjake

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 04:45:55 PM »
Me too, where are our resident Paulistinians and Liberals?  I'm gravely in need of a laugh after Sean Connery in a Speedo.

Fjolnirsson

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 05:11:21 PM »
Until recently, I had thought we might be headed for something like "V for Vendetta", minus the religious overtones. Secret police, curfews, forbidden books, etc. The last year or so, I am leaning more towards "Soylent Green". Massive hunger, corruption the expectation for police, no cars, just slums from shore to shore, filled with millions of disenfranchised drones...

Not much difference between fascism and communism, except fascism seems to look prettier on the surface...
The uniforms are nicer..
Hi.

wooderson

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 05:21:09 PM »
We are, of course, heading toward the end of the world.
Why? Because it has to end sometime.

semi-serious answer:
Water and food scarcity, energy crises on top of energy crises, an economy that constantly roils between bubble and bust, unchecked population growth across the globe increasingly choking the planet of its resources, a continually hopeless situation in sub-Saharan Africa, the death of the American middle class, and a lot of really bad TV.
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El Tejon

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 06:23:23 PM »
Bah, I heard that nonsense in the '70s.

We are headed to a more prosperous, peaceful world.  Of course, we just have to survive President B. Hussien Obama. grin
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Dntsycnt

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 06:26:02 PM »
Quote
More advanced technology.  Proliferation of pornography.  Space exploration.

I consider these things good things.

I'd like to see more space exploration.  A big money drain, I know, but once we're able to colonize other planets the human race is set.  Of course, that's basically asking for a miraculous "Guess what guys, an apple fell on my head and I just realized how we can travel lightyears in seconds at the push of a button!" 

Increasing population is my biggest worry.  I see lots of food shortages, disease, and loss of elbow room.  This is why I am amused by people who object to homosexuality based on the "queerin dont make the world work" view.  Yes...gay couples don't produce children...GOOD.  There are enough without parents as it is, and even the ones WITH parents are getting a little too numerous, and it will only get worse.

It'd be nice if I could yell, "See ya suckers!!!" and fly for the frontier.

But, then again, population is kind of a self-solving problem, isn't it?  You get too numerous, plagues spread and most people die.  The few left are all the stronger.  I think.  I don't want to find out.

I'm not too worried about evil robots or colorful horses.  I do think as a society we are in a downslope in many ways, but a continual up-slope in many other, perhaps more important ways.  All in all I have high expectations for humanity, and rather low ones for my lifetime.  But I'll still freaking enjoy it!

grampster

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 06:33:50 PM »
Great populist pressure begins to force the government to open up the exploiting of vast resources of coal, oil and gas.  Environmental hard heads are pushed aside as America wakes up to the fact that "conservation" is nothing more than a ploy to control behavior.  The unintended consequences of wacko environmental regulation has too much impact on the economy.  The new energy plan is set up like the old utilities were, stock is issued, and provides a place for baby boomers to safely invest their retirement funds from 401k's and the like.  Social Security is partially tied into the Energy Stocks.  Because of America's determination and new energy policy, oil and gas prices plummet worldwide.  Several troublesome middle eastern countries begin to have revolts within their population and several tribalist and religious extremists are running for their lives.  Islam around the world begins to join the bandwagon by repudiating Wahhabist Islam.

 America begins to drift away from being involved in the middle east and begins to make positive inroads with countries to the south.  When the Cuban Embargo ended, (The one and only positive thing that President Obama managed to do) a push to mend fences in the south.  As a result, optimism breaks out and the country begins again to shake off what is finally comes to be defined as the Carter Malaise that the leftists have been cultivating for a couple of decades.

  So called human caused global warming is finally debunked.  All of this begins to occur at the end of the 3rd year of the Obama presidency when it becomes painfully obvious that America has drifted too far to the left and the populace repudiates this drift.

  The midterm elections saw the republicans taking control of the House and the Senate.  There is a bit of surprise that so many young people rallied around Newt Gingrich again as a new Contract with America gains speed.  Professor Gingrich stays on the sidelines and mentors the young turks.  Most of the new republican politicians had not been much involved with politics, but decided to change the face of the republican party, again.

Plans to build 30 nuclear power plants are gaining steam.  Several refineries are being enlarged.  The coal industry is thriving by selling coal to China, India and other emerging countries.  Several natural gas discoveries are creating jobs and lowering the cost of heating homes and providing power for electrical plants until the nuclear plants begin to come on line.

A proposal to build a high speed, elevated electric train system gathers public support.  The country is divided up into "Elevated Districts" and private companies are getting ready to bid on the construction of the system in districts.  Elevated stocks are issued as in the energy business.  Social Security will also be tied into this and congress finally decided to put SS funds in the proverbial lockbox.  The freeway rights of way will be used to construct this system.  The trucking industry is joining in with the Elevated to provide a better, faster way of delivering freight. Short way trucking firms are planing to add jobs as a result and the auto rental business is planning on a surge due to the fact that so many
Americans will be able to criss cross the country by inexpensive Elevated travel.  The tourist business is beginning to burst at the seams. 

American businesses begin to sprout up which will produce goods and services to emerging nations.

How about this....I hope you gloom and doomers would start being a little more positive.

PS:  El T hosts his first ever Zombie Bear Hunting Extravaganza.  A good time was had by all.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Dntsycnt

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2008, 06:46:32 PM »
Wow...I was going for vaguely-distant-future.

Grampster took it on whole-hog and made clear, substantive predictions.

.....nerd.

Tecumseh

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2008, 07:33:21 PM »
We are, of course, heading toward the end of the world.
Why? Because it has to end sometime.

semi-serious answer:
Water and food scarcity, energy crises on top of energy crises, an economy that constantly roils between bubble and bust, unchecked population growth across the globe increasingly choking the planet of its resources, a continually hopeless situation in sub-Saharan Africa, the death of the American middle class, and a lot of really bad TV.
  I suspect a global food crisis as opposed to a national one.  With the way corporate entities are looking to take control of the food supply we could eventually starve ourselves to death.  If we keep exploiting our environment and destroying the way of life we live we will suffer.

Can the original poster explain the proliferation of pornography?  I did not see any until I got home.  Wink


K Frame

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2008, 07:58:28 PM »
I wake up and realize that all of you have been a bad dream...
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

LAK

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2008, 02:05:24 AM »
Quote
I want to know what you think will happen
Why "peace and prosperity in every land" of course.

Why?

America is better off .... people are going back to work. Our nation is poised ... for greatness.

It is of course the logical and rational conclusion of the way we are being steered where we are headed. Those who have engineered all this say so, and they should know.

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Bigjake

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2008, 02:44:46 AM »
Thank you, Grampster.  That was well thought out and optimistic, and just what I needed this morning.  I really hope you're right!

roo_ster

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2008, 05:57:48 AM »
Quote
More advanced technology.  Proliferation of pornography.  Space exploration.

I consider these things good things.

I'd like to see more space exploration.  A big money drain, I know, but once we're able to colonize other planets the human race is set.  Of course, that's basically asking for a miraculous "Guess what guys, an apple fell on my head and I just realized how we can travel lightyears in seconds at the push of a button!" 

Increasing population is my biggest worry.  I see lots of food shortages, disease, and loss of elbow room.  This is why I am amused by people who object to homosexuality based on the "queerin dont make the world work" view.  Yes...gay couples don't produce children...GOOD.  There are enough without parents as it is, and even the ones WITH parents are getting a little too numerous, and it will only get worse.

It'd be nice if I could yell, "See ya suckers!!!" and fly for the frontier.

But, then again, population is kind of a self-solving problem, isn't it?  You get too numerous, plagues spread and most people die.  The few left are all the stronger.  I think.  I don't want to find out.

I'm not too worried about evil robots or colorful horses.  I do think as a society we are in a downslope in many ways, but a continual up-slope in many other, perhaps more important ways.  All in all I have high expectations for humanity, and rather low ones for my lifetime.  But I'll still freaking enjoy it!

Underpopulation is the problem, not over population, in the civilized world.  A quick glance at birth rates and projected populations is a bracing antidote to population explosion bullshoi.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Dntsycnt

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 06:05:01 AM »
Good sir, I am intrigued.

Do you have any links I could take a look at?

I was under the impression that the population was under a continual exponential increase, both nationally and globally, and that medical advancement keeping people alive would only make it worse.

Scout26

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2008, 06:21:02 AM »
Quote
I suspect a global food crisis as opposed to a national one.

http://www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FSA_File/feb2008onepager.pdf


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Status  February 28, 2008
Current Enrollment
General 30.68 mil. ac.
Continuous (non-CREP) 2.91 mil. ac.
CREP 1.08 mil. ac.
Total 34.67 mil. ac.d.

34.67 million acres of food capable producing land in the US, currently producing......nothing.

Yep, starvation is just around the corner.....


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grampster

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2008, 09:47:34 AM »
In many of the developed nations, there is negative population growth, or static growth.  In the 3rd world, population is positive, but there is a lot of genocide and starvation going on, so I don't know if those populations are actually growing as fast as population trends indicate.

As for overpopulation, several years a go, the entire population of the world could have 1 square yard and they'd fit within the confines of Jacksonville, Fla.

The political situations in emerging nations have more to do with starvation than any single other issue.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2008, 10:07:04 AM »
Quote
A proposal to build a high speed, elevated electric train system gathers public support.  The country is divided up into "Elevated Districts" and private companies are getting ready to bid on the construction of the system in districts.  Elevated stocks are issued as in the energy business.  Social Security will also be tied into this and congress finally decided to put SS funds in the proverbial lockbox.  The freeway rights of way will be used to construct this system.  The trucking industry is joining in with the Elevated to provide a better, faster way of delivering freight. Short way trucking firms are planing to add jobs as a result and the auto rental business is planning on a surge due to the fact that so many
Americans will be able to criss cross the country by inexpensive Elevated travel.  The tourist business is beginning to burst at the seams. 

Ah, yes.  Blaine the Mono.  Suspended by The Beam 1,000 feet above The Wastelands.  Operating on Slo-Trans technology.   grin
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doc2rn

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2008, 12:14:08 PM »
I hope for the repeal of NAFTA, industries return, Oil becomes a regulated commodity not allowed to be removed from the US if refined here, nuclear solar & wind power, tax on all imports of 50%, tax of 75% on all comodities exported, and ceasing of giving away American tax dollars to other countries.

roo_ster

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2008, 12:17:14 PM »
Good sir, I am intrigued.

Do you have any links I could take a look at?

I was under the impression that the population was under a continual exponential increase, both nationally and globally, and that medical advancement keeping people alive would only make it worse.

The population bombers have bombed in the face of reality.

A couple good books on the subject:
Fewer: How the New Demography of Depopulation Will Shape Our Future by Ben Wattenberg
http://www.amazon.com/Fewer-Demography-Depopulation-Shape-Future/dp/1566636736/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206391793&sr=1-2
Newt Gingrich wrote this review on amazon.com:
Quote from: Newt
Ben Wattenberg's "Fewer: How the New Demography of Depopulation Will Shape Our Future" is a remarkable book and, in terms of its importance for our country and the world, it should attract a great deal more attention than most of the presidential campaign advertising.

Mr. Wattenberg reports conclusively that the world will have far fewer people than was expected even a decade ago, that in numbers and age and gender patterns this smaller population will be distributed in ways that will be significant, and that the implications for the environment, the economy and national security will be quite profound.

The biggest news is that in sheer numbers the human race is now likely to peak at 8.5 billion people instead of the United Nations projection of 11.5 billion. Even the U.N. demographers now agree that the population explosion will never reach the numbers they had once projected.

The biggest reason for this dramatic decline was captured in an earlier book by Mr. Wattenberg, "The Birth Dearth." Women are simply having fewer children and the result is that in some countries population is already starting to go down.

As Mr. Wattenberg notes, in order to sustain the current population, the average woman would have to have 2.33 children. Falling below that average will result in a population decline. Today some 40 countries are already below the replacement rate and Mr. Wattenberg expects virtually every country to be below the replacement rate by the end of our lifetime.

Fascinatingly, after all the focus on Chinese compulsory population control, it is not China that has had the most rapid change in birthrates among Asian countries. That honor goes to South Korea, where women now average only 1.17 children (even lower than Japan). China has dropped to 1.825 and is still declining.

Mr. Wattenberg makes so many fascinating points in this thin book that it is impossible to cover them all in a review. However, a few deserve to be singled out.

Europe is going to lose population dramatically by mid-century and therefore become significantly older. This will almost certainly entail a significant shift in power and in economic competitiveness away from an aging and shrinking European Union.

Mexico is on the verge of dropping below the replacement rate; over the next generation this will almost certainly slow the rate of migration to the United States. Russia is facing a demographic crisis, with the shortest lifespan for males of any industrial country and a catastrophic decline in women willing to bear children.

Mr. Wattenberg highlights the intellectual dishonesty of the Paul Ehrlich, left-wing environmentalists and their factual mistakes over the last generation. Mr. Ehrlich had predicted famines beginning in the 1970s. They simply haven't happened. The global warming projections all assumed a population of 11.5 billion. If the human race peaks at only 8.5 billion people - 3 billion fewer than predicted - and then starts a long-term decline, how that changes all those gloom-and-doom predictions.

Mr. Wattenberg highlights the unique role of the United States as the one industrial country that will keep growing. American population growth is a combination of the highest birthrate of any industrial country (2.01 children per female) and our willingness to accept immigration. Mr. Wattenberg projects that the United States will continue to grow in economic and other forms of power, while Europe and Japan decline dramatically. Indeed, in the Wattenberg vision of the future, there are only three large nations by 2050: China, India and the United States.

This is a book that should lead to very profound discussions, given its implications for pension programs in Europe and Japan, its implications for economic development throughout the world and its implications for environmental management and an honest assessment of the future.

Finally, this book is a tribute to the continued, persistent willingness of Mr. Wattenberg to take facts as they are presented and follow them without an ideological or political agenda. Hopefully it will lead many policy-makers to think deeply about how much the future will differ from their current expectations and then to ask how those differences should change American and world policies.

That book came out of the following article by BW, "It Will Be A Smaller World, After All."
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.16549/pub_detail.asp

America Alone by Mark Steyn examines some of the consequences of the slow-motion civilizational suicide:
http://www.amazon.com/America-Alone-End-World-Know/dp/0895260786/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206392195&sr=1-2
Western civilization, if it has a future, lies with America alone, since the Euros won't be around, as America is the only country in the West to have a replacement birth rate.
Here is one amazon.com review:
Quote
Regular readers of Mr. Steyn will not be unfamiliar with his central points:

1) In the ongoing conflict between the West and Islam, both the demographics and the will to power favor the Islamists. That a country like Spain, with a birth rate of 1.15 children per adult women, will extinguish itself in a few generations, while immigrants from countries such as Pakistan (birth rate 4.53) will move in to fill the vacuum.

2) That as an aggressive, unassimilated minority edges closer to a majority (as in France, with an estimated 30% Muslim population in the under 20 age group), the character of the democratic institutions will become more closely aligned with Islamic law and culture.

3) That the post-Christian welfare state is largely to blame for the pessimism and failures of will demonstrated by Europe.

4) That America represents the primary exception to this trend, if only by degree, and that only a concerted effort to save our society stands a chance of reversing these trends.




UN Population stats, as of 2006, with med, high, & low variants, as well as a constant-fertility variant (least likely).  Most demographers think these numbers are somewhat padded, too.
http://esa.un.org/unpp/

Code:
World
Population (thousands)
All Variants
1950-2050

Year    Medium
variant    High
variant    Low
variant    Constant-
fertility
variant
1950    2 535 093    2 535 093    2 535 093    2 535 093
1955    2 770 753    2 770 753    2 770 753    2 770 753
1960    3 031 931    3 031 931    3 031 931    3 031 931
1965    3 342 771    3 342 771    3 342 771    3 342 771
1970    3 698 676    3 698 676    3 698 676    3 698 676
1975    4 076 080    4 076 080    4 076 080    4 076 080
1980    4 451 470    4 451 470    4 451 470    4 451 470
1985    4 855 264    4 855 264    4 855 264    4 855 264
1990    5 294 879    5 294 879    5 294 879    5 294 879
1995    5 719 045    5 719 045    5 719 045    5 719 045
2000    6 124 123    6 124 123    6 124 123    6 124 123
2005    6 514 751    6 514 751    6 514 751    6 514 751
2010    6 906 558    6 967 407    6 843 645    6 944 634
2015    7 295 135    7 459 289    7 127 009    7 416 822
2020    7 667 090    7 966 382    7 363 824    7 919 765
2025    8 010 509    8 450 822    7 568 539    8 443 704
2030    8 317 707    8 913 727    7 727 192    8 996 239
2035    8 587 050    9 368 004    7 828 666    9 597 117
2040    8 823 546    9 829 962    7 871 770    10 265 189
2045    9 025 982    10 297 036    7 857 864    11 014 053
2050    9 191 287    10 756 366    7 791 945    11 857 786


I would also suggest you read accounts of Russia's and E Germany's depopulation.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Bigjake

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Re: Where Are We Headed, and Why?
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2008, 12:32:32 PM »
Nice, jfruser.

He DID want chapter and verse  laugh