What Caliber for Snowballs?

[BridgeRunner]

Yeah, I think most of us are probably familiar with the problems of the Boston Massacre.  Heck, that history has even been popularized, most recently in a (I think HBO) miniseries on John Adams.  Still, snowballs+armed enforcers+disobedient crowds=interesting problem in ethics and justice. 

Of course, this incident in DC was a lot more clear-cut that Boston.  The cops were being morons.

[Stand_watie]

...Of course, this incident in DC was a lot more clear-cut that Boston.  The cops were being morons.

     Agree with that statement regarding Detective (Bailey ?) with the gun. The uniformed guys didn't seem to be out of control even if they did reflexively (and in hindsight perhaps wrongly) side with Bailey. Bailey reminds me of Denzel Washington's character in "training day".

[Firethorn]

i saw the video too, and i don't get the "obviously a cop bit". until he got his radio out, it was just a black guy with a gun. 

The video I saw didn't show the guy with the radio with a gun.  Looked like a cell phone to me.  Still, I didn't see the whole video, I guess, it was on the news.

I was talking about the while cop who came up behind him.

[Scout26]

Incorrect.

Watch the video again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAgQKJuriIo

Check out the young scofflaw at 45 seconds, hurl a snowball right into the armed cop's face.

That...
1.  He's identified himself as an officer, allegedly.  Shoddy proof from a long distance, but he has a gun and radio and "something shiny" on his belt and declared himself a cop.
2.  Constitutes assault on a police officer.

The Danny Glover wannabe needs a recto-cranial inversion and needs his badge stripped for pulling a gun in the first place over snowballs... but those kids need to understand you don't throw snowballs at either armed cops, armed whackos, or armed whacko-cops.

Det. Baylor seems to be humour-impaired. 

He would not have been hit with any snowballs, had he remained in his vehicle.  Once he got out his vehicle, then he's "fair-game" for getting a snowball in his piehole.   In some of the other video's posted on You-tube, I don't see any other drivers getting out of their vehicles.

[makattak]

Det. Baylor seems to be humour-impaired. 

He would not have been hit with any snowballs, had he remained in his vehicle.  Once he got out his vehicle, then he's "fair-game" for getting a snowball in his piehole.   In some of the other video's posted on You-tube, I don't see any other drivers getting out of their vehicles.

Throwing snowballs (or other things) at cars is a crime. Not only can you cause damage to the cars, you can cause drivers (especially in hazardous driving conditions) to become distracted leading to accidents.

The officer should have gotten out of his car. He should have then pulled his badge and reprimanded these college students. He should have warned them against throwing at cars and called it in to the department in case it should continue. Had he done that, there would have been no story and he'd have done the public a service.

HOWEVER, pulling his gun was WAY out of line.

So, yes, these students were definitely in the wrong. So was he. The fact that they were miscreants does not negate his failure of duty (and his committing what should be a crime, as it would have been for any other citizen.)

[Scout26]

makattack Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTx2w0WjYIk

Anyone driving through there could tell what was going on. 

So a snowball or six hit your car.  BFD.

Getting out and pulling your gun.....

Hmmmm, let me see if I can capture Det. Baylor's attitude:

Ahh, yes, here it is:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hkcZilKChI

[makattak]

makattack Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTx2w0WjYIk

Anyone driving through there could tell what was going on. 

So a snowball or six hit your car.  BFD.

Getting out and pulling your gun.....

Hmmmm, let me see if I can capture Det. Baylor's attitude:

Ahh, yes, here it is:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hkcZilKChI

Ok, I see nothing to dispute my statement that a snowball hitting your car is distracting. Many people react badly to surprises and may hit the gas. In that crowd, it could have meant a deadly accident.

The cop should have got out to put a stop to throwing at cars. Pulling his weapon was quite out of line, though.

Incidentally, as a child, I was friends with a group of kids who did a similar thing. (In the midwest where people are more used to driving in snow.) When they hit a police car, he pulled over and took each of them to their parents to explain what was going on. In this case, as these "children" can't be returned to their parents, a warning was in order.

We don't want people interfering with individuals driving deadly weapons. Think about it- I'm sure you or I would not over-react to a snowball hitting the car and either swerve or brake or hit the gas. I'm a very steady person. Now, think about someone who is more jumpy and already stressed about driving in the snow. Preventing people from throwing snowballs at vehicles IS a good idea. Pulling the gun to do so, not so much.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

one unintended consequence of gentriifucation.  is that many white kids are now brave enough to be on the street

[Mabs2]

Suppose that a private citizen with a valid CCW permit (I know, it's D.C., but humor me) reacted the way Detective Baylor did.  How would the police respond then?

The police would probably respond to that person the way they should be responding to this detective.

[Stand_watie]

one unintended consequence of gentriifucation.  is that many white kids are now brave enough to be on the street

     D.C. college campus. It did warm my heart to see the interracial harmony of a black kid hitting the cop in the face with a snowball, while the white kids were too chicken to hurl anything but cliched epithets and threats/warnings to the police that they were on film...reafirmed my predujice that in general, black kids are badder ass than us white boys.

    I hit a car with a snowball my sophomore year of high school. The driver got out and punched me in the mouth, and gave me a fat lip. He was a senior at the high school down the road. He checked his punch or he would have taken my teeth out, as he was (by high school standards) a genuine badass. I deserved it. It was an approximately proportionate response to my wrongdoing. I learned my lesson and never threw another snowball at a car.

     That said, this cops response was out of proportion to the threat. That gun shouldn't have come out unless he was being stoned with hard projectiles.

     Now THAT being said, I don't think the gun being out is as big a deal as him raging around like Denzel Washington, and making a false arrest to save face. He took his gun  out but didn't point it at the snowball throwers. To me that is a "reprimand" sort of action. He could have defused the whole scenario by laughing and saying "Aww Heck you's guys, I thought somebody was trying to kill me, I thought that was bricks hitting my car...come on over here and let me talk to you... I know your having fun, but snowballs on the winshield could cause an accident....so you have to keep you snowballs directed toward each other, and not throw them at any at cars on the road..." OR, if it is such a danger that is an immediate danger to motorists,  call for the uniformed police in marked cars.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

some years back he woulda been considered a girly man on the dc force. they have mellowed video helped with that.