XM25 to be used in Afghanistan

[Angel Eyes]

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/24/armys-revolutionary-rifle-use-afghanistan/?test=faces

After years of development, the U.S. Army has unleashed a new weapon in Afghanistan -- the XM25 Counter Defilade Target Engagement System, a high-tech rifle that can be programmed so that its 25-mm. ammunition detonates either in front of or behind a target, meaning it can be fired just above a wall before it explodes and kills the enemy

May be old news to some here, but I found it interesting.

[Phantom Warrior]

I can't quite decide what I think about it.  Something with integrated 5.56, like the old OICW project, I could see but I'm not sure what I think about a stand alone 25mm rifle.

[AJ Dual]

My thought was to give them the option of some nasty shot-shells-from-hell so it would be useful in a CQB role, or at least as a really GOOD door breacher.

Kind of a resurrection of the 10ga F/A HK CAWS concept with tungsten buckshot good out to 100 yards. 

[MicroBalrog]

I can't quite decide what I think about it.  Something with integrated 5.56, like the old OICW project, I could see but I'm not sure what I think about a stand alone 25mm rifle.

Wasn't OICW generally considered a failed concept for weight issues?

[Phantom Warrior]

No clue on the OICW.  My only point was that I think something with an integrated 5.56 rifle capability, like the OICW or an M4/203, would be a better choice than a stand alone long range air bursting 25mm rifle.  Unless they are going to have to hump that AND an M4.

[Jamisjockey]

No clue on the OICW.  My only point was that I think something with an integrated 5.56 rifle capability, like the OICW or an M4/203, would be a better choice than a stand alone long range air bursting 25mm rifle.  Unless they are going to have to hump that AND an M4.

I think you already know the answer.

[Phantom Warrior]

Yeah, I think I do.

[MechAg94]

I thought the problem was the 5.56 rifle part never proved to be as reliable as the M16. 

I would rather hump a carbine than be stuck with just a 9mm pistol.

[Harold Tuttle]

not everyone carries the SAW
but ammo for it is divided up in the squad

with the XM25 I gather there will be a grenadier in the squad
why not have him thumping a 40mm smart and dumb rounds?
That way he can be resupplied from the 40mm cannons?

[Jamisjockey]

not everyone carries the SAW
but ammo for it is divided up in the squad

with the XM25 I gather there will be a grenadier in the squad
why not have him thumping a 40mm smart and dumb rounds?
That way he can be resupplied from the 40mm cannons?

Because its not cool.  Oh, and becuase nobody will make any new contract money on old weapons platforms.

I thought the problem was the 5.56 rifle part never proved to be as reliable as the M16. 

I would rather hump a carbine than be stuck with just a 9mm pistol.

I'm still surprised that we haven't fielded a PDW in large numbers yet. 

[erictank]

not everyone carries the SAW
but ammo for it is divided up in the squad

with the XM25 I gather there will be a grenadier in the squad
why not have him thumping a 40mm smart and dumb rounds?
That way he can be resupplied from the 40mm cannons?

XM25 is pretty hefty already - what would a 40mm version weigh?  Isn't the Mk19 auto-grenade launcher a 300-pound setup? (looks up weight) Ah, much lighter than I'd thought - "only" 72.5 pounds for just the gun, plus the weight of a case of linked 40mm grenades - another page on the Mk19 lists weight for the gun, tripod, and traverse-and-elevation mechanism at 120 pounds, plus 64 pounds for a container of 48 rounds.  There was a link to the Mk47 Striker 40mm auto grenade launcher, as well, which at 55 pounds (gun only) is lighter than the Mk19 and can fire "smart" 40mm rounds similar to the XM25's 25mm rounds.  Hmmm.  It's still pretty hefty, though - the XM25 is MUCH lighter even than the Striker, which is still listed as needing a tripod (and presumably T&E).

I'm presuming that you weren't referring to regular 40mm grenades, as used in the M203 and that 40mm-grenade revolver job - the XM25 would have far greater range, AFAIK.

[Harold Tuttle]

much more HE in the 40mm thumpers thou...

what does Alliant charge for a round of xm25 goodness?

[Harold Tuttle]

http://www.defensereview.com/atk-xm25-25mm-grenade-launcher-for-future-infantry-will-it-fly/

[Tallpine]

This should go a long way towards winning the hearts and minds of the people 

[Ron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2LZMuPEubk

[Angel Eyes]

This should go a long way towards winning the hearts and minds of the people 

If by "winning" you mean "splattering all over the ground", yes it will. 

[Phantom Warrior]

not everyone carries the SAW
but ammo for it is divided up in the squad
I'm not 100% up on my squad equipment distribution (no SAWs in an HHC company) but I don't think SAW gunners distribute their ammo.  240 gunners do but I think that is primarily to the AG and the ammo bearer.


with the XM25 I gather there will be a grenadier in the squad
why not have him thumping a 40mm smart and dumb rounds?
That way he can be resupplied from the 40mm cannons?
I'm not sure if the XM25 is supposed to replace or supplement the 203.  As someone mentioned, the new 25mm round has a max range of about double the 203s (800 yds vs. 400 yds).  And 203's can not fire the longer rounds from the Mk 19s, even though they are both 40mm.  Wikipedia has a good write up here.

[Perd Hapley]

I'm not 100% up on my squad equipment distribution (no SAWs in an HHC company) but I don't think SAW gunners distribute their ammo.  240 gunners do but I think that is primarily to the AG and the ammo bearer.

Never heard of ammo distribution for a SAW, and I was a SAW gunner for a year or more. Then again, I was Mech, and it might be different for straight leg light infantry types.

240/M60, maybe. 50-cal, I hope so.

[Harold Tuttle]

so all weapons platforms require support infrastructure

do XM-25 rounds fit in 12 guage loops?

what would you think the load out would be?

The army is expected to purchase 12,500 of the XM25 rifles this year, which is enough to outfit every member off the infantry and special forces. A button beside the trigger adds one meter to the range that the laser range finder calculates to the target. The bullet would then explode with the force of a hand grenade. Initially, the weapon will fire rounds that are high explosives but future projectiles could aim to stun rather than kill.

Each of the rounds will cost in the area of $24.

http://www.dailytech.com/US+Armys+XM25+Fires+Bullets+that+Target+Enemies+Behind+Cover/article20272.htm

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

The army is expected to purchase 12,500 of the XM25 rifles this year, which is enough to outfit every member of the infantry and special forces.

Wait; what? I know SF is small, but we've got to have more infantry than that... right? Apparently we have around a half-million total in active duty. That means 40 other guys to every one infantry or SF guy.

[kgbsquirrel]

do XM-25 rounds fit in 12 guage loops?

Seems moot, isn't it fed from detachable box magazines?

[Harold Tuttle]

if i am bug hunting, I want bandoleers!

[kgbsquirrel]

Oh, well in that case, no, they wont. 12 gauge is roughly 20.3mm.

[Harold Tuttle]

so 24 bucks a round...
killroy carries how many 4 round magazines?

4?
8 seems like a pretty hefty load

32 shots later and you transition to your 9mm pistol?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgh4uy5A-lI

[Phantom Warrior]

Wait; what? I know SF is small, but we've got to have more infantry than that... right? Apparently we have around a half-million total in active duty. That means 40 other guys to every one infantry or SF guy.

I think the original quote was something about one per Infantry squad, not every 11B out there.  Just doing some back of the envelope math that number is probably on the high side, if anything.

I believe the Infantry makes up 10-15% of the Army.  Doing more back of the envelope math based on the number of BCTs 10-15% sounds about right.